Animated Wonder Woman
 

I know that we where able to get to see Wonder Woman in the Justice League and Justice League Unlimited cartoons, but I was sort of sad that Wonder Woman did't get her own animated series like Batman and Superman did beofre they crossed over into Justice League series. I really liked Wonder Woman in Justice league, but I was always little disapointed that she never got her own series.

And yes, I under stand the same could be said about all the superheros that appeared in Justice league Unlimited but since as far DC is concerned Wonder Woman is like the iconic three of the DC universe (Batman, Superman, Wonderwoman), that I thought it was kind of a shame she didn't get her own animated series like the other DC poster childern did.

Would anyone have liked to see a Wonder Woman animated series? Do you think Wonder Woman could have carried her own series. Or do think she is better sharing the spot light with other heros in theJLU series? I've heard some people say that they think the Wonder Woman of the animated Justice league universe is a bit dull or kind of unlikable because of her attitude. What do you think?

Haven't really caught much, if any, of the Justice League cartoons. BUT I did have the opportunity to be at the NYComic Con premiere of the Wonder Woman animated movie.

If they made a series like that movie? Oh hells yeah I'd watch it.

I think she's a strong enough character to carry the weight of her own show.

She has a strong enough character but the audience isn't there. The animated movie didn't do too hot and interest for Wonder Woman is never that high.

The poor sales of the Wonder Woman animated movie (as well as GL) are the reason why a ton of DCU animated films were scrapped. And Wonder Woman's performance is the single reason why DC won't be doing anymore animated films with a female lead. Ever.

So, no. I don't think she should have her own show. But if they do another JL series, I'd love to see Wonder Woman. She's at her best when she's contrasting with other heroes.

really? I thought the Wonder Woman movie did well. Oh well. I like Wonder Woman but I don't think she is well liked by many other people for some reason. I think it's the whole feminist vibe that turns people off to her, since whining about female inequality is seen as a dated gripe. I don't remember the Wonder Woman of the Super Friends making overtly feminist comments, or the live action Wonder Woman from the 70's. They where just super heros that fought crime and evil. And I think they where the better for it.

but that aside does the Wonder Woman source material have a rogues gallery as diverse and epic as Batman and Superman for her to go up against? I can't really think of any obvious baddies synomious with Wonder Woman, like with Batman (Joker) and Superman (Lex Luthur) that would make for engaging story telling.

also side note, I noticed from other forums that Wonder Woman from the justice League isn't well liked by fans. They say she is annoying.

Wonder Woman doesnt have a lot of dimension to her character, that's why.

Well, doesn't that figure. WW & GL were my favorites so far.

Is that at the fault of how she is handled by writers or was she actually created as sort of a bland character even in the early comics? Cause a female warrior who is an amazon seems like play ground for creativity and story telling IMHO. What where the early comics like of Wonder Woman? Was it just WWII propaganda, or was there something more to it than that?

for those of you with a good knowlege of the Wonder Woman mythos what exactly about her storyline turns people off to it?

aw, really? :(

Wonder Woman was just a way to make a dime off having an image of female empowerment. Its her schtik. Thats about it.

I'd say the best stuff about Wonder Woman was probably done by Gail Simone.

It's my understanding that Wonder Woman was created solely to be a soft-core bondage porn character. She wasn't supposed to have character and depth, but be pretty and get tied up a lot.

Well, she did have a rope...

Conspiracy theory much.

That's right. It wasn't a question. I think this describes the leather-clad Xena better.

Still, while I'm not incredibly knowledgeable on the history of DC Comics characters, she actually was a shallow character back in the day. But, name one that wasn't. Different era, different standards...

[strike]Does this mean you do or don't want a citation?[/strike]

On second though, scratch that. You've clearly indicated that any evidence I'd use to support my comment would fall on deaf ears, so in the interest of saving everyone's time I retract the offer.

Marston wasn't very subtle with the bondage in his stories

I'm a huge Wonder Woman fan... I own virtually every WW comic out there, right down to the 40s.

She has plenty of character but her biggest problem is DC's insistance on cancelling and rebooting/drastically retooling her every 3 or 4 years has been pretty detrimental to her. You know, just when she's a bit established by a writer and has a good thing going, a great supporting cast... "Sorry, looks like WW isn't making Batman or Superman numbers the past few months (which is crazy -- WW is never going to do those numbers) so it's time to bring in a new creative team."

So what happens is every new writer starts off with a big, year-long, "Who am I?" story arc with Diana. By the time she comes up with an answer, sales dip and it's time for a new writer to wipe away the progress of the previous writer(s).

It's pretty shocking and insulting that JMS, who's coming on WW... the first story arc out of the gate is the destruction of Paradise Island (oh, and another "Who am I?" arc). Which would be shocking in and of itself... but the shock I'm referring to is the fact that the destruction of Paradise Island has already been done... about 20 times in virtually as many years!

And the "Who am I?" story thing... it's just pretty retarded. If she hasn't come up with the answer yet, she's never going to.

My point is... WW does have plenty of character and character depth... but it's just inconsistent from one writer's take to the next. I'm certain eventually Geoff Johns will come in the room wagging his tail and will do some kind of horrible, "Wonder Woman: Rebirth" or "Wonder Woman: Secret Origin" that will take a big sh*t over all of her history and it'll be applauded by many... but by that point I'll probably just walk out on the whole thing.

I like Wonder Woman a lot. Ive also enjoyed the animated film, but I don't know much about her so I would personally like to see a show about her. I'm sure she has as many stories to tell as Supes and the Bat.

She's certainly more interesting than Superman.

The whole survivor of a dead species, god complex thing is just completely flat. Ahem.

WW most of the time is just the superhero version of a Yakov Smirnoff joke. On my island, Women own you.

Yeah, and that's why there's oh-so-many fantastic stories people can name off hand about her, arcs that define not just the character but offer a glimpse of how legitimate sequential art is in our society. As well as stories that are cherished not just by WW fans, but the general public and literature enthusiasts alike.


Oh, wait...

I can name plenty of stories and arcs as you describe.

The thing about Wonder Woman is -- and DC themselves still hasn't really figued it out -- ... she's never really going to be a super popular character. Short of coming out with an adults-only "Wonder Woman ****s the JLA," it's just not in the cards. There's just too many factors against her, at least in the realm of comics -- she doesn't fit the mold of comic book "bad girls," she's not quite relateable or appealing to the 12-30 male bread and butter comic book readership, and then there's the whole toxicity of "Well, if I start reading now it's just gonna get rebooted/revamped in another couple of years because that's what always happens with WW."

And I have a lot of problem with the "general public" argument. What the most number of lemmings gravitate toward has no bearing on the merit of a particular character versus another.

I see it kind of like:

Superman: an alien who crash-lands on Earth raised by human parents, protecting Metropolis with his superpowers and never killing. A bald rich guy has a weird hard-on for him. Interesting to a point, but pretty vanilla. The best Superman stories are the simplest... and there's a reason for that.

Wonder Woman: Amazonian Princess, carved of clay and given life by the Gods, is sent to Man's World as its emissary and ambassador. She has a love of all things, protects the world, occasionally kills, and the Greek God of War is her nemesis.

I thought the WW movie was horrible. It was okay once but repeat viewings killed it for me. The best thing about the WW DVD was the documentary on her creation and the state of the world at the time.

The GL movie I didn't even like the first time I watched it. I bought the bluray version and aside from how great the animation looked the film fell short. They didn't really do much with GL as a hero. He was badly developed and stood in the background while side characters did most of the talking.

To answer your question I wouldn't care for a WW TV series. She was fine in JLA when she took the spot light now and again but I can't see her doing that every episode.

actually I think in the earliest comics of the WW franchise the bondage was supposed to be a sort of metaphore for the economic and psychological bondange women suffered in society, and WW getting tied up by men and then bursting free was sort of her sort of "breaking free" from that and being a liberated woman. Actually I think I have something on that:

In countless stories, she is chained and bound by male villains, only to break free and triumph. The ropes and chains are symbols of patriarchy and the drama is her ability to break the shackles of male domination they symbolize.

It wasn't ment to be perverted...orginally. however I think your soft porn assumtion is also spot on as well because, when other writers took over:

Unfortunately, most comic historians have ignored the feminist elements of the series, and focused on these elements of bondage, reducing the complexity of Marston’s Wonder Woman mythos to little more than a thinly disguised sadomasochistic sexual fantasy.

so...yeah. You pretty much have that dead to rights Plaston. I just wanted to point out that wasn't the orginal intent of the mythos. It's too bad really, that it got mishandled eventually and perverted. I think the dude who created this genuanly wanted to give female readers a posetive female role model to look up to that was strong and capable. The creator was even know to say this:

“Not even girls want to be girls so long as our feminine archetype lacks force, strength, and power…. Women’s strong qualities have become despised because of their weakness. The obvious remedy is to create a character with all the strength of Superman plus all the allure of a good and beautiful woman.”

oh sh*t! Wasn't that Xena's shtick?

Again, YOU can name those arcs. But they're lost in the slew of ******** comics that character has been accumulating for 40 years. You can have an issue with the general public argument all you want, but that's one of the reasons why WW consistently fails to sell: The general public doesn't want her.

The best Superman stories aren't the simplest, I think you're wrong in that regard. Complex explorations of the character, humanity (or if an alien can really ever cope with "humanity") are the best. Not the stories wherein he bounces some ****ing bullets off his face. From this month's Brightest day, we've seen that a majority of the DCU can do that now, with Aquaman being the newest addition to the bulletproofed ********.

Your definition of WW is just another rehash of mythology, or story tellers trying to make stories so heavily ingrained within mythology. We've seen it before. A lot. A lot.

You explain the set up to Superman as being "pretty vanilla," but its way more unique than WW, ESPECIALLY considering how long ago his storyline was established, before the influx of copycat characters.

WW's setup? people still don't want it.

You're right about DC not knowing how to make interesting stories with her, or how to handle her, but she's almost not interesting enough to attempt at garnering those stories.

Wonder Woman is good and all, but I could see how her stories are just a rehashes of Greek Mythos. Which starts to get old after you've seen it all. But I would enjoy a cartoon on her just to see it come to life in animation. I also liked her in Justice League and Justice League Unlimited, espeacially with the whole Batman crush thing that got funny.

And don't mess with Supes! Batman and Superman are the two best and most whored characters of DC. And it never gets tirering. It's always cool to see Superman go dark. Like when he owned Darksied.:lol:

If you're going to flame WW... then at least do it for the right reasons.
 

Wow Brodie, who made your opinion the be-all-end-all of DC animated films?
Wonder Woman was a very decent film, certainly one of the best of the recent DC animated films - up there with Public Enemies and GL (I would rank Public Enemies, WW, then GL). Wonder Woman was not a bad film, and I'm not the only one who thinks so. Look up any number of major movie review sites. In fact, the attitude here is perhaps the first truly negative response I have encountered (on the web or IRL) regarding the recent Wonder Woman animated movie.

The problem with a Wonder Woman TV series boils down two things, which are in fact... intertwined: 1) the main demographic of comic book fans are dudes. Wonder Woman is.... a woman. And not a sexed up bad girl type. 2) Wonder Woman was and always has been a feminist type icon. A major reason the movie had any integrity may well have been that it was directed by a competent female (which, no offense ladies - you haven't been in the workforce as long- is in itself rare). Likewise, the creator of WW himself was a feminist of sorts (albeit one with a very... odd philosophy... regarding bondage) In other words, Wonder Woman is a tricky character. She is a powerful female protagonist. Ergo, most guys will seriously avoid this thematic subject like the plague - unless he has absolutely no fear of anyone doubting his heterosexuality or the humongous size of his balls (eg. James Cameron, Joss Whedon -and possibly Sam Raimi and Ridley Scott?- to name a few... very few - in fact, yeah, that's probably it.)

WW can be done, but whoever is writing/telling the stories should have a genuine understanding of the character.

I would not expect most guys to have that kind of genuine understanding of women (as anything other than girlfriend/wife/sidekick/innocent childlike character ala Disney Heroines - who btw were all created by heterosexual men who shot guns, drank beer and played football), and therefore Wonder Woman. So while it is not impossible to create a successful WW series (nor is it undeserving of one), I find it unlikely that many people in the industry would have the "background" to address the character and her themes adequately. Hers are not as obvious as more well-known, thoroughly analyzed characters such as Batman or Spider-Man (yeah, marvel, but same idea - more people know/understand these characters).

Although, who knows. The industry is changing, more women are entering the force, feminism isn't that big a deal any more in the public conscience. We may see a series in the next ten years - maybe - but definitely not any time soon. In fact, most female animation students I know (and believe me when I say I live, work, and breath among the current and future leaders in animation in both television and film) have little to no interest in superheroes (save one that I know of - who, ironically is perhaps the biggest comic book nerd in our class), and the male students who are into superheroes have no interest in Wonder Woman as a character (personality), other than her boobies - you know, kind of like women IRL. ;)

I never stated my opinion on the animated films. I was referencing this article, which is referencing this interview with Bruce Timm.

It's more that Boys still don't want it, and theirs is the only demographics that matter in the present comic-themed marketplace.

maybe her outfit aint skimpy enough :lol:

True. But you also have to consider that the women who do read comics, and buy this stuff? A significant number of them are more apt to buy Batman stuff, rather than Wonder Woman stuff. So that too skews a portion of the demographic Wonder Woman is geared to.

I'd say more males enjoy reading about Wonder Woman's adventures than women do, in this generation.

You're so not wrong from where I'm sitting. Actually, what you're talking about pretty much defines where I'm sitting. As a comic geek of the female persuasion it takes more than little willpower to hold back the instinctive eyeroll that comes with hearing "comics for girls".

And that bias right there is part of the problem. I'd even go so far as saying a MAJOR part of the problem. Even if Wonder Woman is given the cream of the crop story and art-wise, she still has to overcome the stigma of being the Title IX of the DC universe. And that's sad.

I should disclose that I'm not much of a DC fan, save for the cartoons which I've always loved. When it comes to actual comics though, make mine Marvel.

That stigma comment is pretty spot on,which I think is what I was trying to get across with Andrew.

She doesnt have a backlog of amazing stories that people know about. Which sucks. Like I said, Gail Simone probably did some of the better stuff, but she's coming off it now, and much like Andrew stated, JMS (whom I love) is hopping on, and just rehashing stuff.

Maybe I'm showing my ignorance but, how is it Wonder Woman can't work, but a semi similar character like "Xena Warrior Princess" can? :-? I mean I've sort of noticed they have some similar things about them. Xena has her chakram she can throw, Wonder Woman has her tiara that can also be thrown and is supposed to be sharp enough to cut...ect ect.

Eh, I think WW stakes claim to that schdict by the better part of a century.

Sorry I was referencing Superman tas.

I personally would have loved a Wonder Woman animated series. The fact that there was a live action wonder woman show once proves that a WW animated series could have worked. I'm mildly upset there was never a animated Wonder Woman cartoon during the 90's like bats and Superman did before they got grouped together in Justice league.

However I would only want one if they had a different version of Wonder Woman than the one that was in Justice League series. I just...didn't like her at all. I started out liking her just because she was Wonder Woman but when I got to know her character better I found I didn't like her portrayal. I don't know what the writers where thinking but it almost seemed like they made her unlikable on purpose. She was so arrogant and stuck up that I really couldn't like her too much. I especially hated her attitude toward Hawk Girl when the league was deciding to vote her out or not. She was such a bitch. I would think that given her "solidarity" toward fellow women she would have been more on her side than she was and not hold a grudge the way she did. She held it longer than any of the other founding memebers and it made her look catty and hypicritcal. I was seriously like WTF?

I'm used to the compassionate live action version of Wonder Woman that had a personality, a sense of humor and an actual desire to help people and not judge them as much. So if they did (or ever planed one for the future) I would like it if they had a different Diana/Wonder Woman that showed her character better and gave her better depth than "I am Diana! Princess of the Amazons, bow to me!"

wow. I'm really shocked on how many people are doubtful about Wonder Woman garnering interest as animated series and even more shocked so many didn't like the wonder woman movie after the first viewing. Can you guys please explain your self on why you didn't like the Wonder Woman movie after repeated viewing? What about it turned you off?

These arguments sound very similar to the reasons why a "serious" mirage based ninja turtles wouldn't work or be popular.

"the audiance for Wonder Woman isn't there...the interest for WW is never that high..."

"the audiance for a mirage based ninja turtles movie isn't there...people wouldn't like a gritty turtles movie with out Krang and bebop and Rocksteady antics" ect.

It's like WW is the ninja turtles of the DC universe...

thanks for giving me mental images of a turtle in WW drag

I can only see Mikey be the one to wear it though.