Comparing fads with others [including tmnt]
 

So a while ago someone was trying to argue that the Power Rangers fad was bigger than the Pokemon fad, that of course is wrong as Pokemon was much bigger than PRs ever was. Of course it was a PR forum and in the end he was never convinced and assumed I was crazy for even mentioning it :lol:

Anyways during the argument I mentioned that TMNT vs PRs was a more debatable topic on which fad was bigger than Pokemon. So what do you guys think? I was born in the late 80s but I still remember the TMNT fad very well and it being everywhere even if I may have been too young to catch the peak of the fad. But with what I remember I think the PR fad was bigger than TMNT however the TMNT lasted much longer as a fad than PRs did. Can't remember any other huge fads in the 90s besides TMNT/PR/PKMN.

So ummm..what about other fads? Yu-Gi-Oh seemed pretty big after the Pokemon fad died down but I don't think it ever reached the level the PKMN fad did. YGO came out as I stopped being a kid though so its harder for me to know DBZ was pretty popular but I don't think it quite reached fad level status. Naruto/Ben10 both seem very popular at least awhile ago but since I'm not a kid I'm not sure how big they really got. Don't know of any other things in the 00's that were huge fads though me not being a kid likely has a factor in that.

Now I'm definitely not familiar with how big some stuff was in the 80s, I know Transformers/He-Man were pretty big but I don't think I'd be able to measure how big they were though for some reason I don't think they ever got as big as TMNT did. Theres others like Thundercats/Voltron but I don't think they were as big as Transformers/He-Man.

Now I'm not counting fads like say tamagotchi/furby's/videogames etc but more show oriented fads that tend to last longer. So yeah I'm wondering what other opinions may be, I'm guessing most members here are more familiar with the 80s stuff and it may be hard but try not to be biased, if you weren't a kid or didn't like a fad doesn't mean it wasn't big(ger).

Edit:Oh and I'm talking during the peak of the fads not necessarily length, Power Rangers has been on the air since it came out but the fad clearly ended around season 3.

Out of all the things you mentioned (Transformers, Pokemon, Power Rangers, etc.,) TMNT was by far the biggest. They didn't call the period of time around 1990 "turtlemania" for nothing; they were so popular, major newspapers and media outlets had articles about their financial success. There was never a "pokemania" or a "rangermania."

The turtles have instantly recognizable brand recognition on par with Spider-Man, Batman, and the X-Men, and TMNT is considered a classic franchise and not a "fad." They are still considered a bankable franchise, unlike Pokemon and Power Rangers, and can be reliably utilized to create successful titles in a wide variety of media. Even Transformers can be considered a fad, given that Michael Bay's nostalgia-driven films, while financially successful, are rapidly becoming ridiculed. Transformers' movie merchandise has reached a level of forgettable shovelware on par with Jar Jar Binks. Consumers are simply sick and tired of it.
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Montana

The Turtles are/were much, much more than a simple "fad" as Berserker stated: they are/were a cultural phenomenon. With Viacom now owning the property, we may very well see a true second wave (2K3, while still successful, never reached the heights of the first wave) that may match the original frenzy. Only time will tell how they handle the property.

More on topic, though, I still stand that TMNT are MUCH bigger and recognizable than either PR or Pokemon. PR has been relegated to a niche, and Pokemon is this generations big thing, but just about everyone knows the Turtles. I've only met one kis who did not know/had never heard of the TMNT. Even co-workers 20-30 years my senior recognize the Turtles!

You guys are misunderstanding, I don't mean fad as something that was popular but isn't anymore. Obviously the turtles are still around.

You guys are also underestimating the popularity of Pokemon/Power Rangers, first of all Pokemon is HUGE TMNT and PRs cant even compare. I also don't see how you can brush off Power Rangers like that its more than just a niche, its always held a top 5 spot in toys for boys until like 3 years ago or so, not to mention remained on the air. Also PRs sold for at least 40 million more than what the turtles sold for and thats not counting that the purchase does not hold control over Super Sentai the source material. All three franchises have proven to be popular and survived their fads and didn't die out however they've never been able to reach that status again.

The question is more among when those franchises fads were at their peak.

Again, TMNT were a phenomenon back in the late '80's/early-mid '90's that neither PR nor Pokemon can touch. Yes, they too are very successful, but just like Berserker I don't recall "Rangermania" or "Pokemania".

I will say, I did see more random crap with the Pokemon branding that I ever saw with PR, so out of those two I would say Pokemon came the closest to reaching the phenomenon status that Turtlemania reached.

TMNT is not bigger than Pokemon. The Pokemon games are I believe the #2 best selling videogame franchise of all time, only behind Mario.

The Pokemon anime is still going after 14 seasons and 650+ episodes.

Pokemon is no longer a ratings powerhouse in the U.S., but in Japan its constantly in the Top 10 of TvTokyo's shows.

You guys are f*cking nuts. At least Cybercubed has some sense! Go into any store right now & you will find both Pokemon & Power Ranger toys. You've always been able to do that. You can't find TMNT in stores like that. Turn on the Tv, Pokemon is on & new & working on another season as we speak. Also, 4 new games just dropped. Power rangers has had a sh*t ton of series', TMNT has had 2. Pokemon has has like 9 movies, TMNT had 4 (5 counting Turtles Forever). Maybe the TMNT are more recognizable but that by no means makes them more popular.

Yep, pretty much what he said.

Forget Power Rangers or Pokemon or even TMNT, in the 90's the whole world was caught in the jaws of STREET SHARKS-amania baby!!!

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...reetsharks.jpg

I think if you look at it from the POV of which had a wider influence on all aspects of culture at the time it would be TMNT. Back in the late 80's early 90's everything was TMNT related. if you bought just about anything from a store chances are you could get it as a TMNT product. I don't ever remember that being the case for Pokemon of Power Rangers.

I don't think you can say just because power rangers and pokemon are in stores they were a bigger fad. I mean GI joe has been in stores in some form longer than TMNT, Pokemon of PR. I wouldn't say it was a bigger thing then TMNT.

That said i remember my mother telling me she never had a harder time finding a toy for me then the original power rangers stuff. She said people went nuts in stores trying to get those figures for their kids.

Anyway TMNT is way better than the others anyway!:tlol:

I do hope that's a joke.

Power Rangers, Pokemon, & GI Joe don't have "Dead periods" like the TMNT do. & regarding a wider influence, the TMNT were the inspiration for several rip off shows like Street Sharks & such, but there were far more based on Pokemon. Allow me to give you some examples, both old & new.

Monster Rancher
Digimon
Fighting Food Ons
Fossil League: Dino Tournament Championship
Medabots
Magi Nation
Bakugan Battle Brawlers
Dakupon
Robopon
Yu-Gi-Oh!

The Pikachu rip off mask in The Legend Of Zelda games is another one.

Not to mention there were just as many parodies, jokes in sketch TV programs, references in various other cartoons & games... Get outta here!

C'mon, you don't remember when Street Sharks were EVERYWHERE???



You forgot Scrubs and Extreme Makeover: Home Edition.

I honestly don't even know what Pokemon is other than seeing some small figures at the store and maybe some kind of trading cards or something.

I definitely know what Power Rangers and TMNT is though. Never was big into PR but I enjoyed the show from time to time, TMNT I've loved for 21 years. Maybe my age is why I don't know a thing about Pokemon. I'm really surprised at how big Pokemon is to so many people. I honestly had no idea.

Just because I don't know what it is doesn't mean it isn't huge with lots of other people I'm just saying of those 3 I couldn't tell you anything at all about Pokemon.

TMNT bridges generational gaps. Take a look at all the 20- and 30-somethings who grew up with TMNT and are still fans of the franchise. That's staying power you can't buy. Pokemon, on the other hand, is still mainly a phenomenon for children, and among the few adults I know who actually play the Gameboy games, none of them would be caught dead watching the Pokemon TV series or going to one of those awful Pokemon movies. In another 20 years, I doubt that Pokemon will be considered a "classic" franchise, or that studios will be itching to resurrect it.

And whoever said G.I. Joe and Power Rangers didn't have dead periods has got to be nuts. Joe in particular had very few outings during the 1990s, and while there have always been Joe toys, his multimedia return in the early 2000s was obscure at best, whereas the TMNT 2K3 series was widely hyped.
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Dexter Forum

If we're talking cultural phenomenons, TMNT comes second only to Star Wars during my lifetime. At least here in the UK, from 1989-1992 (and even bleeding through into early 1993) Turtles were EVERYWHERE. Hell, I still have a TMNT-themed issue of Family Circle somewhere (with features like making turtle costumes, knitting patterns, recipes). Power Rangers and Pokemon were big, but not approaching TMNT levels.

I'm tired of arguing (because I can't do so in small posts) so I'm going to go with the immature choice of saying "I'm right. I will always be right.".

For some reason I thought we would be able to have this discussion without being blindly biased towards the turtles... Its the same replies I got on the Power Ranger board only replacing PRs with TMNT.

I never meant to compare Pokemon with TMNT since I thought it was obvious that Pokemon is in a league of its own, I love TMNT but it can not ever hope to dream even half as big as Pokemon was/is. The peak of the Pokemon fad is likely still to this day the biggest any fad has ever gotten and even after the peak died the show has remained extremely strong, as strong as other franchises during their fads. If you can't see this then you're being biased or too old to be aware of how big Pokemon really was and still is.

Power Rangers/TMNT seems more fair of a comparison, I think during the peak of the Power Rangers fad it was more popular than TMNT during their peak. However I think the TMNT fad while not as big as PRs was able to last longer as a fad. PRs only lasted about 3 years while TMNT's fad lasted pretty much until PRs came on. Of course PRs has remained on the air over the past 17 years with a normal level of popularity while TMNT has not and PRs sold for twice as much as TMNT did. Impact on pop culture I'd say its pretty even with the TMNT having a slight advantage but this could be mostly because it came out before allowing more adults to be nostalgic than PR fans.

Its definitely hard to measure how big a fad is without being biased, I got to experience all three (TMNT/PR/PKMN) fads as a kid so I think I can measure them somewhat better than most here. For newer and older stuff though I can't since I wasn't a kid anymore or I wasn't even a fetus yet. Transformers seems bigger than He-Man and I'm guessing thats how it was in the 80s but I don't really know how big both were in their peak. In recent years Ben 10 seems very popular though I don't know just how big it was able to get during its peak, I don't think it got as big as PRs or TMNT but there was definitely plenty of Ben 10 stuff out there. Yu Gi Oh seemed much bigger than Ben 10 even though it did mostly ride PKMNs popularity. I think Hannah Montana was more on the level of PRs/TMNT but I'm not really counting it since it was mostly aimed at girls and that probably limited its popularity a lot or I'm just being sexist :P

But yeah if I have to continue to argue why Pokemon is bigger than TMNT I'm out of this thread.


http://www.xdtech.net/p/jawsome.jpg

Everything about this post is wrong.

There was never a pokemania? Really? Ok then, that whole 2 year period where nearly everything was pokemon related including a segment on some sh*tty sitcom starring Norm Macdonald just never happened.

Pokemon isn't a bankable franchise. How come those games still sell like crazy and make a ton of money? WEIRD RIGHT? Meanwhile TMNT was on it's deadbed last year, ready to be tossed into the closet of obscurity before Viacom saved it.

The consumers are simply sick and tired of Transformers but they continue to buy tickets to the movies and buy the toys. That makes no sense.

TMNT has not done ANYTHING of note since the OT boom. Right now they're the definition of a nostalgia act, Nothing but sort of recognizable faces to slap onto a hot topic hat or shirt.

Comparing Ninja Turtles to multi-billion dollar franchises like Spider-Man and Batman is f*cking ridiculous because those characters have survived and thrived for decades through numerous incarnations and forms of media. Ninja Turtles is a relic from the early 90s, Don't compare them with legendary characters and brands like Spidey and Batman. It'd be more appropriate to put them amongst Alf, Rainbow Brite and the 'Wheres the beef?' lady. Pains me to say that but we have to be honest here.

Someone call hell & find out how they're enjoying the ice age. Never did I think you two would have me agreeing with you ten fold.
Anyone who disagrees with the last 2 posts is an idiot.

Off-Topic(Sorta):

TMNT>Pokemon & Power Rangers. Just sayin'.

But, I'm gonna have to whole heartily agree with Stryker here (a little part of me died typing that).

And, that "JAWESOME" picture has me rollin'! HAHA!

How the hell does anyone doubt Pokemon's popularity? The series was a phenomenon from 1998-2001, and even today the new games sell millions of copies and the anime is STILL RUNNING.

Who would have ever thought the Pokemon anime, with Ash still as the main character, would still be going after 14 seasons and 650+ episodes?

Black/White were the best selling DS games in Japan, they sold millions in like a day.

A crap load of people out there don't even no what the hell TMNT is. I have never met another TMNT fan, I have never met anyone who could say all 4 turtles names. Now for Pokemon, everyone knows about it, it is a reoccurring fad that have been around for awhile. People know who Pikachu, Ash, Brock; they could actually name people and the Pokemon from that show.

Anyone who thinks that TMNT is a bigger thing then Pokemon needs to come out of the cave.

This one quote is wrong. PR sold for $43 million this year where TMNT sold for $60 million (Source:http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...erations-26507, http://www.marketwatch.com/story/add...k=MW_news_stmp).

Also, a major factor no one has mentioned is TMNT was an independent property. Pokemon is and has always been owned by Nintendo, and Haim Saban is a billionaire who owned part of the Family Channel and does own Univision, not to mention several conglomerations. Mirage was literally a handful of people flying by the seat of their pants to manage a massive franchise.

I'm not arguing that one is bigger than the other now, I'm simply stating that several factors need to be determined to accurately build a viable comparison.

We keep arguing different points. Some of us are relating each property in differing terms such as television series longevity, amount of product available, etc. While those do correlate with the big picture, pop culture is a broad term that also focuses on brand recognition. Ask someone to name a Power Ranger and I guarantee most would name one of the MMPR (if any), Pokemon no doubt would win with Pikachu, but just as many people can name at least one Turtle (or something about them).

Another factor that plays in, and this ties back into my first point, is that PR and Pokemon (especially Pokemon) have both had the luxury of having multi-billion dollar entities backing them, providing the money needed to keep products in front of people.

And whoever said the Turtles have only had 2 series is forgetting Next Mutation (quite understandable), but Fast Forward and Back to the Sewer were spin-off series that tied into 2k3's continuity. If I recall, isn't each iteration of Power Rangers a spin-off from the last? I remember Turbo spun out of MMPR. Pokemon "evolve", but whether or not the series are connected I don't know.

As a consumer, I was a part of Turtlemania, I was a spectator of Rangermania (I was a pre-teen), as well as Pokemon (worked retail in the late '90's-early '00's), so I have seen all three. I would argue that Pokemon is the pop culture successor to TMNT, but now that Viacom, a multi-billion dollar corporate giant, own the property who knows how they will continue on in the future. I am confidant they will continue in some form for the foreseeable future much like Spongebob.

Are we comparing the series as a whole or the one point when the series was at its peak?

Because as a whole, yes Pokemon is huge due to the games, cards and cartoon. It was designed to gain as much attention as possible to sell its products.

If we look at the peak of the show though, tmnt was bigger. It was everywhere back then. There was everything from cereal to ice cream to the usual toys and bed covers. And lets not forget that it didn't have as much competition as pokemon had. That ensured that it grew to the huge phenomenon that it did.

Pikachu is still a balloon in Macy's Thanksgiving day parade, and I think it has been for about 10 years now.

Pokemon had bedsheets, I owned them. They had macaroni & cheese, I still eat it.
Pokemon was everywhere "back then" & still is everywhere.

But why is he there? Because he is a cultural phenomenon or because Nintendo is sponsoring the parade?

Sack Boy is going to be in This year's Toronto Santa Clause parade. Does that mean he is as popular as pikachu now? No, it means sony is sponsoring the parade and they get a float because of it.

Having a mascot in a parade means nothing since its all about money.

Those are quarter earnings not the actual amount they sold PRs for.
We never got the amount Saban bought PRs except that it was 6 figures so at least $100, 000. So yeah going just by that it sold for almost twice as much and heck it could have sold for more than twice as much for all we know, also take into account Laird only got 40 for the turtles, the other 20 went to 4K!ds.

Of course you can argue that Laird was a sucker and undersold the turtles and the fact that Saban bought from Disney who weren't going to let go off a property unless there was some serious cash involved. But the point still stands, I mostly brought it up for those who think PRs can't hold a candle to the TMNT and obviously they are more even or even ahead.


Well when it comes to Pokemon it doesn't matter, it wins in every category.

But yeah my original post is about during the craze/fads of the franchises. Obviously PRs has been way more successful than the TMNT post-craze. But during the fad PRs seemed bigger during their peak but the TMNT craze seemed to last longer than PRs.

As far as pop culture wise its hard to tell right now the TMNT have an advantage of being the older franchise hence the whole nostalgia thing is stronger than PRs, but as time has passed PRs is becoming referenced more and more in pop culture.

I'm not arguing anything cause it's really an arguement that cannot give a definitive answer, like, charts and graphs proving one property was truly and factually the superior "fad". I can sit here and read posts all day about how "everyone I know knows the TMNT and not the PRs" or "I don't know anyone who knows the TMNT now but they know Pokemon", but really, what does that prove, other than we all live in different areas with different pop culture awareness?

Looking at things in an unbiased manner, to me, and just my opinion, TMNT seemed to be the bigger fad, cause I remember them being everywhere in the media and every kid at school, boy and girl, was obessed with them. PR and Pokemon didn't seem to capture America like they did from my perspective. HOWEVER, by the time Pokemon rolled around, I wasn't a kid anymore and wasn't in the habit of hanging out with kids to see what was cool. So PR and Pokemon could very well have been bigger, but from my own personal experience and observation, TMNT seemed to me to be bigger.

One final thought though, I know Pokemon has had like 37 movies and Power Rangers had like 2 theatrical movies, but did any one of those do the box office that any of the TMNT movies did?

4 words:
Biker Mice from Mars!!

This is a totally flawed argument. It is a total coincidence on where you live and what people around you are aware off. I find it very hard to belive you have never met anyone who can name all four ninja turtles, I know people who have not seen a ninja turtle anything in ten years and name them. And inversly I don't know many people that could name four pokemon (or even one outside of Pikachu really). Again I say though, this has no indication on which is more popular or well know.

The one thing I still say TMNT has going for it over the other two franchises is that I belive it has an appeal to a wider audience and especially age group. TMNT in it's original comic form is not directed at childern, the huge fad was, but the original property was not. This, I belive allows for a bigger range of the public to be aware of TMNT, and have an interest in it. While I was never into pokemon and PR near as much as TMNT, and therfore can't really be sure of this, I don't think either franchise can claim it's truist form is aimed at adults.

they took over the spot with Power Rangers in Norway for a while... That's something right?:lol:

Lord of the Rings?

Get over yourself. I lived in NY for most of my life & never met anyone who couldn't tell me who the TMNT were. Now, I live in the south & no one has a goddamn clue what I'm talking about. Don't act like it's not possible. There are people who don't watch TV, or read comics, or play games, everyone has something they're not into. Just because you folks prefer TMNT over Pokemon doesn't mean that Pokemon is less of a franchise. They're way bigger. That is a f*cking fact.

& regarding whoever said no 21 year old would be caught dead watching the Pokemon anime; have you been living under a Snorlax? I guess that's why when I was at NYCC I saw like 50 Ash Ketchum cosplayers, all considerably over the age of 20. I guess that's why the line to meet the Pokemon voice actors had autograph lines longer then the wall of china, consisting of the ages 15-40. I guess that's why every 30 something year old employee at my local gamestop can shoot the sh*t about the NEW TV series with me that airs weekly, everytime I drop by. Yeah, they're ashamed, I'm sure. GTFO.

uh, thats exactly my point dude. It is all circumstantial. Hence why I said it was a flawed argument. I used my example of the exact opposite thing being the case with me to show this.

The reason why you find adults watching the Pokemon anime now, (as opposed to 1998 ), was because the 20 year olds now were the original, "10 year old kids" who liked Pokemon when it first started.

All the kids who were 8-10 years old and liked Pokemon in 1998, are all now grown up in their 20's. While some of course never got back into Pokemon, a lot did return to the series at some point, even if its only for the games and not for the anime.

The original Pokemon fanbase grew up. Pokemon has been around for 12 years in the United States, that's a damn long time for a single continuity with no real reboots like other franchises.

Everybody see???? Pokemon is popular in places that Powder has been, so Pokemon must be the biggest fad in the history of everything!!!!! Plus, Powder referenced a Snorlax, which I'm assuming is a Pokemon character, thus futher proving the point that Pokemon is the biggest fad mankind has ever produced. POWDER VINDICATED!!! Now everyone stop trying to prove otherwise, to do so is futile!

:twink:

Don't be an ass. I was trying to discredit someone saying no self respecting adult would be watching the anime.
I gave valid examples that suggest otherwise.

:lol: this is hilarious !!!!

I wasn't trying to be an ass (well, maybe a little), just having some fun with a rather ridiculous argument. Besides, anyone who says this:

[QUOTE=Powder;807080]God, you're all thick skulled sons of bitches.
QUOTE]


...shouldn't be telling me to not be an ass.

I was being a dick, not an ass. An ass has a twist of humor, as you said. I did not.