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-   -   Spider-Man TAS vs. Spectacular Spider-Man (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=33656)

Sergio517 04-06-2011 04:17 AM

Spider-Man TAS vs. Spectacular Spider-Man
 
That poster looks very decent. Maybe I'll watch this one because I really hated Spectacular Spider-Man and everything baby about it. From a story standpoint, it had something going, but from the art style of the show, it was horrible. Stop baby-ing everything Marvel!

The new Avengers cartoon is a step up from the Spectacular Spider-Man and Wolverine and the X-Men. I hate character designs that look too awkward. Maybe now we'll get real animation where the people look like people and not toons. Been looking for something as good as the best spider-man cartoon ever, Spider-Man TAS. Please stop the whole I'm a kid spider-man learning the ropes. It's whored out too much.

Edit:

OMG! Just saw the trailer. This looks watchable! The characters look realistic now and not cartoony. I just marked out for Jameson! He looks fantastic and not like a car peeled out on his forehead like in the "Spectacular" Spider-Kid. I can safely bet this version of Eddie Brock won't look like something out of Dragon Ball Z.

Edit 2:

Now we just need Venom and Carnage to look like this!


Cure 04-06-2011 11:44 AM

There's all kinds of retarded with your post.

ZariusTwo 04-06-2011 12:23 PM

Spider-Man TAS the best Spidey cartoon ever?:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Get some TASTE man

Sergio517 04-06-2011 04:00 PM

I happen to have more taste than anyone I see praising crappy shows. I actually have standards in what I choose to watch. ;)

But then again, there's probably a bunch of Pokemon slave masters, yugi-oh, and dragonball z watchers here. And that's fine, but yea.

Turo602 04-06-2011 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo (Post 836569)
Spider-Man TAS the best Spidey cartoon ever?:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Get some TASTE man

So what's the best Spider-Man cartoon then? And don't you dare say it's Spectacular Spider-Man!

Candy Kappa 04-06-2011 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turo602 (Post 836710)
So what's the best Spider-Man cartoon then? And don't you dare say it's Spectacular Spider-Man!

whats wrong with Spectacular Spider-Man?

Cure 04-06-2011 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiwamu The Kappa (Post 836741)
whats wrong with Spectacular Spider-Man?

Just ignore him, his answer won't make sense to people with common sense.

Turo602 04-06-2011 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiwamu The Kappa (Post 836741)
whats wrong with Spectacular Spider-Man?

Even though I enjoyed Spectacular Spider-Man, the facts are, it didn't have a long run and didn't have a chance to be completed. Spider-Man TAS IMO is the best one of them all as of now. The story was heavy, it had the best character designs instead of cartoony ones, and it was just epic. Especially the crossovers. In the Spectacular Spider-Man you see Spider-Man take on the Sinister Six and they don't even look menacing, they look goofy and cartoony. Sure Spider-Man TAS had it's restrictions and ended early then it should of, but I still haven't seen anything better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cure (Post 836745)
Just ignore him, his answer won't make sense to people with common sense.

How you doin there champ?

Spitfire 04-06-2011 08:35 PM

I found the fight scenes in Spectacular Spider-man to be some of the best I've seen in a cartoon. The old show was great for the time but it had it's limitations. I felt the newer series got to the point a lot faster and the sense of danger seemed a lot higher. How they handled the black suit arc was amazing and one of the best incarnations of that story. I thought they took a lot from Ultimate but after reading all of it I see they really went off and did their own thing.

Cure 04-06-2011 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spitfire (Post 836854)
I found the fight scenes in Spectacular Spider-man to be some of the best I've seen in a cartoon. The old show was great for the time but it had it's limitations. I felt the newer series got to the point a lot faster and the sense of danger seemed a lot higher. How they handled the black suit arc was amazing and one of the best incarnations of that story. I thought they took a lot from Ultimate but after reading all of it I see they really went off and did their own thing.

Wait. While I agree with what you're saying, I recall you saying you hated Spectacular.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turo602 (Post 836849)
How you doin there champ?

I'm...alright?

Turo602 04-06-2011 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spitfire (Post 836854)
I found the fight scenes in Spectacular Spider-man to be some of the best I've seen in a cartoon. The old show was great for the time but it had it's limitations. I felt the newer series got to the point a lot faster and the sense of danger seemed a lot higher. How they handled the black suit arc was amazing and one of the best incarnations of that story. I thought they took a lot from Ultimate but after reading all of it I see they really went off and did their own thing.

Yeah, that's one of the things I liked about that show. I also like how they went a bit deeper into Peter's life. The action and the story in Spectacular Spider-Man was great. But I still go with Spider-Man TAS any day. I just hope this new one is as good or better. It just bugs me a bit how it's based on the Ultimate series, even though I can still enjoy it. But for as good as this show looks it would of been nice if it were based on the Amazing. But I guess it's been done a lot already. But I don't mind the Ultimate series, all it is, is Amazing with a twist.

Peanut 04-06-2011 09:46 PM

I "ugh'd" at the lame invisible cyber-watch, but the animation, from what you can see, looks to be just as fluid and face-paced as Spectacular.

And I love TAS, but if Spectacular was allowed to continue, it would have blown everything about TAS out of the water. I do always love when kids complain that something looks too "toony" or "childish" though. Shows they're still children...bless them.

Slap-Happy 04-07-2011 03:34 AM

I loved Spectacular. I hope this can live up too or exceed it.

And also, I think Turo is trying to bring up TAS to seem older. I never really liked TAS too much. Character designs seemed a bit too, I don't know, bland for me.

Sergio517 04-07-2011 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slap Happy (Post 837004)
And also, I think Turo is trying to bring up TAS to seem older.

LOL! Explain. I don't get how that makes sense. God forbid we love to watch anything before our time or else we're trying to seem older. Is that why you have an avatar of The Fonz? They do still show TAS on Disney XD so he watches it and can compare it to any spider-man show around; be that Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends, Spectacular, that MTV Spider-Man show, and Spider-Man Unlimited. Out of all of those TAS is the best. Of course, it is just an opinion.

Generally speaking, no one should be butt hurt and get offended over someone sharing an opinion. I don't give a crap if someone says Spectacular is the best because that's THEIR opinion. I'm not going to be childish and post childish remarks about an opinion different than my own. There are kids here who need to grow up and upgrade to huggies because the world is not about them. I'm open to conversation and debate, not school yard comments like, "you're retarded" or "I'm better than you because I watch cartoons."

@Spitfire, I agree with your comment regarding the action of Spectacular. I still think TAS is the best overall, but as time goes on, it did suck that the networks had so many restrictions back then. Cartoons these days are allowed to have heavier combat sequences, and that was good about Spectacular. Personally, I couldn't enjoy it because lately every new cartoon seems to like making the characters that I love into younger incarnations. the designs for spectacular didn't shout, "look at me, I'm a serious show!" It wasn't reaching toward an older audience. Not my thing, but I respect any who like it or even say it's "the best." My life won't change over an opinion.

ZariusTwo 04-07-2011 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sergio517 (Post 837015)
LOL! Explain. I don't get how that makes sense. God forbid we love to watch anything before our time or else we're trying to seem older. Is that why you have an avatar of The Fonz? They do still show TAS on Disney XD so he watches it and can compare it to any spider-man show around; be that Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends, Spectacular, that MTV Spider-Man show, and Spider-Man Unlimited. Out of all of those TAS is the best. Of course, it is just an opinion.

Generally speaking, no one should be butt hurt and get offended over someone sharing an opinion. I don't give a crap if someone says Spectacular is the best because that's THEIR opinion. I'm not going to be childish and post childish remarks about an opinion different than my own. There are kids here who need to grow up and upgrade to huggies because the world is not about them. I'm open to conversation and debate, not school yard comments like, "you're retarded" or "I'm better than you because I watch cartoons."

@Spitfire, I agree with your comment regarding the action of Spectacular. I still think TAS is the best overall, but as time goes on, it did suck that the networks had so many restrictions back then. Cartoons these days are allowed to have heavier combat sequences, and that was good about Spectacular. Personally, I couldn't enjoy it because lately every new cartoon seems to like making the characters that I love into younger incarnations.

Have you ever read a Spider-Man comic in your life? He's all ABOUT youth.

The earliest incarnation of him was a 16 year old kid going through rites of passage, something "Spectacular" manages to capture beutifully. Steve Ditko wanted to keep him in high school forever like Archie, never graduating, Bendis is doing right by that vision in Ultimate Spider-Man

Spider-Man TAS is S*IT, and it only gets marks because it's the most complete Spidey cartoon out there and because you lot grew up on it, but it doesnt hold up at all, it's got terrrible voice acting, Standards and Practices meant Spidey couldnt throw ONE punch, the stories havent aged all that well and some are downright insulting to the intelligence. Spetacular has Spiuder-Man TAS beat by a nose, it's truer to Spidey's early days, it's got incredible twists, the animation is also supremly fluid..

The Stryker 04-07-2011 11:13 AM

Hold up.

People don't like it when a cartoon.....looks like a cartoon? Also TAS looked realistic and was geared more towards adults?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ker_design.jpg

EPIC YO.

Cure 04-07-2011 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sergio517 (Post 837015)
the designs for spectacular didn't shout, "look at me, I'm a serious show!" It wasn't reaching toward an older audience.

This is why you're dumb, not cuz of you're opinion. It wasn't a "serious show" and it's not reaching for an older audience because it's not supposed to. No kid's cartoon is. People like to think that cartoons are catered to them when that's not true at all. If you can enjoy it regardless of that is a different story.

Slap-Happy 04-07-2011 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sergio517 (Post 837015)
LOL! Explain. I don't get how that makes sense.

Sure seems to me like he's trying to gain nostalgia points with all the people calling him a kid.

Sergio517 04-07-2011 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slap Happy (Post 837120)
Sure seems to me like he's trying to gain nostalgia points with all the people calling him a kid.

Nah that ain't it, I assure you. He knows what he likes and it's the others who call him a kid only to boost their own ego. They like to think they're "smart" "mature" and "intelligent" because they have opinions they think are fact. That's all. Look at how people resort to calling me dumb here when I say what I say about what I like. It's juvenile. I don't call them names for liking what I don't like.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cure (Post 837082)
This is why you're dumb, not cuz of you're opinion. It wasn't a "serious show" and it's not reaching for an older audience because it's not supposed to. No kid's cartoon is. People like to think that cartoons are catered to them when that's not true at all. If you can enjoy it regardless of that is a different story.

Ok. This is why you're dumb. Don't insult me if you don't know me well enough to do so. I don't disrespect you. First of all, that show you love so much was catered toward kids as well as an older audience ok. If it was JUST for kids then it wouldn't have been heavy on story, action, or have sexual innuendo.

To the guy who posted that Peter Parker pic. If that don't look less toonish than Spectacular, then you're easily pleased.

Turo602 04-07-2011 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slap Happy (Post 837120)
Sure seems to me like he's trying to gain nostalgia points with all the people calling him a kid.

Like if I give a damn what people think of me to want to change what I like. Hell no I'm no follower. Do you even know why I like Spider-Man? I don't think so. And it ain't because of some movie or that lame Unlimited crap. I'm not going to suck up to anyone to get "nostalgia points". I like what I like for a reason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo (Post 837029)
Have you ever read a Spider-Man comic in your life? He's all ABOUT youth.

The earliest incarnation of him was a 16 year old kid going through rites of passage, something "Spectacular" manages to capture beutifully. Steve Ditko wanted to keep him in high school forever like Archie, never graduating, Bendis is doing right by that vision in Ultimate Spider-Man

So he can't like another incarnation because one is truer then the other? That's like saying someone can't like the 80s TMNT over the 2k3 series because they were like that in the original comics.

The Stryker 04-07-2011 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sergio517 (Post 837202)
To the guy who posted that Peter Parker pic. If that don't look less toonish than Spectacular, then you're easily pleased.

I'm just saying that applying words like 'epic' 'mature' and 'realistic' to TAS is ridiculous.

I liked that show but don't point at a happy meal and call it a lobster dinner.

Jester 04-07-2011 07:29 PM

Heck the only Spidey series geared to an older audience was the CG series MTV ran. I kinda wish it had been on for more than 1 season.

I really need to re-watch Spider-Man TAS. I do remember kinda wondering why Peter was so old in it though.

Slap-Happy 04-07-2011 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 837311)
Heck the only Spidey series geared to an older audience was the CG series MTV ran. I kinda wish it had been on for more than 1 season.

I really need to re-watch Spider-Man TAS. I do remember kinda wondering why Peter was so old in it though.

I actually liked that show a lot. Wish there could've been crossovers with Daredevil, Hulk, Punisher, etc.

Turo602 04-07-2011 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stryker (Post 837303)
I'm just saying that applying words like 'epic' 'mature' and 'realistic' to TAS is ridiculous.

I liked that show but don't point at a happy meal and call it a lobster dinner.

Like Spectacular right?

http://www.animationmagazine.net/ima...parker_150.gif

Is it just me, or does he look like Flick from A Bugs Life?

http://content6.flixster.com/questio...335904_std.jpg

The Stryker 04-07-2011 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turo602 (Post 837335)
Like Spectacular right?

http://www.animationmagazine.net/ima...parker_150.gif

Is it just me, or does he look like Flick from A Bugs Life?

http://content6.flixster.com/questio...335904_std.jpg

Uh..What? I'm not even comparing or saying Spectacular doesn't look like a cartoon. Because it's a cartoon and getting mad at a cartoon for looking like a cartoon is ridiculous.

Cartoon cartoon.

Cure 04-07-2011 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turo602 (Post 837335)
Like Spectacular right?

http://www.animationmagazine.net/ima...parker_150.gif

Is it just me, or does he look like Flick from A Bugs Life?

http://content6.flixster.com/questio...335904_std.jpg

He didn't even say anything about Spectacular. Way to be dumb.

Turo602 04-07-2011 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stryker (Post 837340)
Uh..What? I'm not even comparing or saying Spectacular doesn't look like a cartoon. Because it's a cartoon and getting mad at a cartoon for looking like a cartoon is ridiculous.

Cartoon cartoon.

Who's getting mad? It's called disliking something because the designs are horrible compared to your standards. Yes it's a cartoon, doesn't mean it has to look bogus. When you have seen shows that look like Spider-Man TAS, X-Men, Batman, etc. And then you see they make another and it looks like the Spectacular Spider-Man. You're going to be disappointed. It's like having 1000 bucks and being reduced to 100 bucks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cure (Post 837343)
He didn't even say anything about Spectacular. Way to be dumb.

Way to be stupid. When did I ever say he did?

"Hey, do you like cars?"

"What? I never said anything about cars."

Jester 04-07-2011 08:36 PM

Are Sergio and Turo602 the same person? I mean they are answering for each other...seems odd.

As for the animation of Spectacular vs. TAS, am I alone in thinking that STORY matters a lot more than the character designs? That said, I liked both series, but I think Spectacular really harkened back to the Lee/Ditko Spidey. Peter in TAS was a bit to old, but I still have warm fuzzies for the series. Nostalgia, you know.

Turo602 04-07-2011 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 837359)
Are Sergio and Turo602 the same person? I mean they are answering for each other...seems odd.

No, we're brothers. Why would that be odd? That's like saying, are Cure and Stryker the same person? But yeah Jester, we're not.

The Stryker 04-07-2011 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turo602 (Post 837353)
Who's getting mad? It's called disliking something because the designs are horrible compared to your standards. Yes it's a cartoon, doesn't mean it has to look bogus. When you have seen shows that look like Spider-Man TAS, X-Men, Batman, etc. And then you see they make another and it looks like the Spectacular Spider-Man. You're going to be disappointed. It's like having 1000 bucks and being reduced to 100 bucks.

TAS and X-men look awful now. Spider-man especially where every character is shaped like a box. Not to mention the sh*tty animation and storytelling on both of those shows.

I wasn't nuts about the character design in Spectacular but it more than made up for it with a great story and really fluid animation. The 90s show does none of those things well at all.

Turo602 04-07-2011 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stryker (Post 837361)
TAS and X-men look awful now. Spider-man especially where every character is shaped like a box. Not to mention the sh*tty animation and storytelling on both of those shows.

I wasn't nuts about the character design in Spectacular but it more than made up for it with a great story and really fluid animation. The 90s show does none of those things well at all.

And I respect your opinion even though I disagree with you. But don't worry, I won't call you dumb or retarded. That's just childish.

Redeemer 04-07-2011 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stryker (Post 837361)
TAS and X-men look awful now. Spider-man especially where every character is shaped like a box. Not to mention the sh*tty animation and storytelling on both of those shows.

I wasn't nuts about the character design in Spectacular but it more than made up for it with a great story and really fluid animation. The 90s show does none of those things well at all.

I disagree, I am actually studying how draw as Marvel does, and IMO Spider-man TAS, was drawn better than Spectacular Spider-man, simply bc TAS was drawn more realistically. Spetacular used manga style design from the episodes I saw. You cant say one is better than the other bc they are two different styles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slap Happy (Post 837004)
I loved Spectacular. I hope this can live up too or exceed it.

And also, I think Turo is trying to bring up TAS to seem older. I never really liked TAS too much. Character designs seemed a bit too, I don't know, bland for me.

I watched the OT turtles and read the first Mirage Comics, but I was born in MID 91 so I can't really remember the OT and was to young for the comics, but I still love both!

Stop trying to insult people!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo (Post 837029)
Have you ever read a Spider-Man comic in your life? He's all ABOUT youth.

The earliest incarnation of him was a 16 year old kid going through rites of passage, something "Spectacular" manages to capture beutifully. Steve Ditko wanted to keep him in high school forever like Archie, never graduating, Bendis is doing right by that vision in Ultimate Spider-Man

Spider-Man TAS is S*IT, and it only gets marks because it's the most complete Spidey cartoon out there and because you lot grew up on it, but it doesnt hold up at all, it's got terrrible voice acting, Standards and Practices meant Spidey couldnt throw ONE punch, the stories havent aged all that well and some are downright insulting to the intelligence. Spetacular has Spiuder-Man TAS beat by a nose, it's truer to Spidey's early days, it's got incredible twists, the animation is also supremly fluid..

Have you ever read the original Spider-man comics??? Spider-man TAS is the closest cartoon to the original comics. Ecspecially when it comes to Spider-man himself.

And how did it stay on so long if it was crap? U guys make no sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stryker (Post 837073)
Hold up.

People don't like it when a cartoon.....looks like a cartoon? Also TAS looked realistic and was geared more towards adults?


EPIC YO.

Oh yeah that why it is on during SAT mornings :lol: and the reason it looks so much more realistic is bc it was drawn in the traditional Marval style. Unlike Spectacular in its Manga style.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cure (Post 837082)
This is why you're dumb, not cuz of you're opinion. It wasn't a "serious show" and it's not reaching for an older audience because it's not supposed to. No kid's cartoon is. People like to think that cartoons are catered to them when that's not true at all. If you can enjoy it regardless of that is a different story.

Oh yeah they jst make cartoons for the fun of it and not to draw fans in to make money???? Really? and ya'll r calling Turo and Sergio Retarded? I hope u guys realize how ignorent u sound, jst relax

Cure 04-07-2011 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redeemer (Post 837379)
Oh yeah they jst make cartoons for the fun of it and not to draw fans in to make money????

What? I don't...yeah...they...what?

Peanut 04-07-2011 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester (Post 837359)
Are Sergio and Turo602 the same person? I mean they are answering for each other...seems odd.

The guy with the shemale av/sig is a ringer Turo brought in because we hurt his feelings. Whenever Turo gets butt hurt Sergio shows up to protect him.

Also, I'm noticing the forum has a real big problem with reading comprehension lately. Either a lot of people are ESL or kids don't read no gud. I feel like Reedemer was trying to cast a f*cking spell up there.

Redeemer 04-07-2011 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peanut (Post 837407)
The guy with the shemale av/sig is a ringer Turo brought in because we hurt his feelings. Whenever Turo gets butt hurt Sergio shows up to protect him.

Also, I'm noticing the forum has a real big problem with reading comprehension lately. Either a lot of people are ESL or kids don't read no gud. I feel like Reedemer was trying to cast a f*cking spell up there.

Sorry Peanut I jst thought it was completely inapropiate for people to call each other retarded or discriminating against them bc of age. Bc I am pretty sure this is against forum rules and trolling.

Also not everybody uses English as a first language. So they not be best at typing.

and yes Peanut I am studying at Hogwartz!!!! :lol:

Peanut 04-07-2011 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redeemer (Post 837414)
Sorry Peanut I jst thought it was completely inapropiate for people to call each other retarded or discriminating against them bc of age. Bc I am pretty sure this is against forum rules and trolling.

Also not everybody uses English as a first language. So they not be best at typing.

and yes Peanut I am studying at Hogwartz!!!! :lol:

I totally get the age thing. I don't...even really know where that came from in this thread, but it seems weird that came up at all.

And yeah, that's why I mentioned ESL. That's a totally legit reason for typing like a lunatic and I actually commend people who even do it. I can barely use a single language properly, I don't know how people can deal with two or more.

Also, I go to Hogwarts...or I wish I did. :(

Sergio517 04-07-2011 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stryker (Post 837303)
I'm just saying that applying words like 'epic' 'mature' and 'realistic' to TAS is ridiculous.

I liked that show but don't point at a happy meal and call it a lobster dinner.

I understand your point. I'm not calling it epic, mature, and realistic to hurt anyone. Out of all spider-man cartoons, TAS had as close to realistic looking people as any other spider-man cartoon. That's what I refer to as realistic. Epic and mature... well I'm not sure there or if I said it was those things, but overall, I do prefer it over any other spider-man show. Ultimate Spider-Man might take the cake here given how it's going back to more realism in character designs over the MTV spider-man, and spectacular.

I'm just not into watching superhero squad shows of characters I love. The whole issue I have with spectacular is that it looks too toony for what they tried doing. They had cute and cuddly villains that didn't look menacing and they tried adding mature themed issues. Spider-Man himself is a character that faces mature issues, but I don't want him to look toony. Nothing wrong with that. We all have our preferences. Your analogy about the happy meal also applies to spectacular though. Just saying.

Edit:

Redeemer knows what he's talking about. Love how you even backed your post up. But the butt hurt will always resort to insulting one's avatars, signatures, opinions, etc. They also stand by their clan and try putting up a front when someone else defends or supports a view different from theirs. Kids... No not an insult, because it really is adolescent behavior.

Cure 04-07-2011 10:11 PM

I hated the Spider-Man movies. The people looked too real. Especially Tobey.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...0parker202.jpg

Ugh. Too real.

Sergio517 04-07-2011 10:18 PM

Lame...

Movie-wise, I didn't like Tobey's portrayal of Spider-Man. He was too much of a p*ssy.

Peanut 04-07-2011 10:25 PM

Always love the notion people throw out there that their opinions and views aren't respected, or that they're argued against because they're different.

I don't think very many people here ever have a problem with a different opinion, but let's face some facts of f*cking life here, not all opinions are created equally. I'm not saying in this specific case, because the tards on both sides have valid points, but in general.

There's a huge difference between an informed, educated opinion and an opinion based on nonsense.


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