Why isn't Kevin as opposed to Fred Wolf characters like Peter is?
 

PL has made his dislike for most of the Fred Wolf characters many, many times. He of course prevented the 4kids writers from using them in the cartoon, and would not allow any of them to appear in the Mirage comics either. (although Krang/Bebop/Rocksteady got a brief cameo in one of the Cowboys of Moo Mesa issues...)

Kevin Eastman on the other hand actually seems open to the idea of old Fred Wolf characters. He's never shown any real obvious disdain for the cartoons (as far as I know), and he even approved of a female turtle, something Peter would never do.

Likewise now that we know Krang is appearing in the IDW series, which Kevin is co-writing, you really have to wonder. Why doesn't Kevin Eastman oppose the old mutant characters or Fred Wolf characters like PL does?

Part of me wonders if Kevin sees the potential of those characters. Sure they were created for the "cheesy" kids show, but in the right hands, they could be more. Never discount a character because of their origin...but IDK. Maybe we should ask Kevin. :D

I find it strange since Kevin likes the more gritty, realistic aspect of the Turtles, yet PL likes the more sci-fi aspect of it.

Yet most of the old toon/Archie mutants were more based on the sci-fi elements....

Kevin sees the Turtles for what they are; a global phenomenon that is popular no matter what. He's obviously very opened minded, and is probably straight up flattered that people want to do so many different things with his creation. Pete has (as of the last decade at least) seemed to think of them as his sole property that should only be done his way, and any non-Mirage version should be swept away.

Peter = AndrewNDB lulz (Just poking fun at ya buddy)

Kevin isn't an ass.

Oh, come on. That's a little harsh. I know you 2 have never seen eye to eye, but there's no need for that.

Leave it to C3 to start a thread like this, clearly calling out the anti-Laird wolves.

Completely uncalled for.

Seriously.

What, PL didn't like your "Ninja Pizza", Rose? :roll:

People are way too harsh on Peter Laird. He has done more for TMNT than Kevin ever has, and up until this new IDW series one would have put money on never hearing Kevin's name associated with the Turtles again outside of public appearances.

I think Eastman is simply a more open-minded individual.

Peter tends to view what happened to turtles outside of the comics as complete rape. He basically sold his soul and it's obvious he regrets it now. The turtles he made are not what's well known, some goofy pizza eating surfers are.

Kevin seems to be able to make a separation of things. I think overall he takes turtles less seriously, Bodycount clued us in on that, and in doing so views the franchise like any other. Is turtles really any different then Batman or Spider-man? They've all had good and bad TV shows, both animated and live action. They've had embarrassing live stage performances and spent years being treated less serious then they were meant to be because of past media portrayal.

I think Peter takes the turtles way more seriously than Kevin does. It seems to me, that Kevin has love for any and everything turtles related. Including Venus, Next Mutation, etc.

Bsically, Kevin hasn't forgotten that the turtles started off as a tounge in cheek parody, while Pete thinks of them as a little more sophisticated.

I agree with Spitfire and Mr. Reilly. It seems that Kevin is a little more laid back in general, and sees the Turtles as fun characters to tell fun stories with. Peter seems more reserved (uptight, if you will) and he treated the Turtles very seriously, it seemed. Maybe Kevin's distance from the Turtles until recently made him excited to work with these characters he enjoys again.

It's odd that once Peter relinquished the property, Kevin came back. Is it a coincidence, or do you think Kevin didn't feel like he could tell the stories he wanted with Peter's hands heavy on the reins?

EDIT: It's odd typing Kevin so much...that's my name...:P

Kevin's more fun. :p

It's already better than when only Laird had the rights. The new comics and cartoon already look a helluva' lot more entertaining than the last 10 years of turtles cartoons and comics (excluding Tales).

I dunna, the 4Kids series was fine for what it was, a more serious cartoon adapting many of the early Eastman and Laird issues. Volume 4 was a little slow, but not the worst. Heck, I wish that Kevin and Pete could have figured out a way to work it out and both continue to work on the series until now. But maybe they were too much of an odd couple for that to have happened.

Peter is very controlling and Mirage purist in his views on his co creation. That has had both its good and bad results over the years. I think some of wolfs characters can be updated and incorporated into IDWs new TMNT and if done right will come off awesome (please no female turtle though:trazz:)

When Peter sold the property I was really pissed at him. After reading his explanation where he discussed his mental health not so much.

IDW offered Peter a chance to be involved in the new TMNT and he declined. Now after reading his blog where he said he he would be involved if Kevin asked him to be directly I feel sorry for him more then anything. Guy needs a hug.

I do secretly hope Peter and Kevin will work on TMNT together again someday. But if they dont I hope seeing what IDW does with his turtles relights his creative spark or puts the fire under Peters ass and makes him do his own thing again (His deal with Viacom allows him to Publish something like 18 issues under Mirage a year).

Laird still thinks of himself as a legitimate underground indie comics creator and the Turtles as a legitimate underground indie comics title, or at least he did for the last few years before he sold his creation to a multinational corporation for several million dollars.

While it was certainly a... noble mindset, it was also a bit delusional. He "sold out" decades ago and there's simply no changing history. Refusing to distribute your comic in major bookstores in order to "keep Mirage small" isn't going to erase the fact that you spent twenty years selling action figures, trapperkeepers and paper napkins with your creation's faces smeared on them to haul in a quick and easy payday of colossal proportions.

Whereas Laird was only interested in pleasing fans of "his" Turtles (not allowing Fred Wolf and Archie characters to appear in the 4Kids series, keeping them out of the toyline, etc) and has that strict "my way or the highway, don't like it then don't buy it" mantra, I think Eastman is a far more amicable individual.

He understands that there are different sects of the casual and hardcore Turtle fandom and he's no qualms when it comes to trying to please more than just the fans of "his original vision".

Whereas Laird would respond to requests with "if you don't like it, scram", Eastman's the kinda guy who'll respond with "lemme see what I can do".

Just two very different personalities.

I appreciate that, at the very end, Laird relented on his stance and let us have "Turtles Forever". I'm grateful for that. And I'm not of the exaggerated opinion that "if Eastman had bought out Laird instead of the other way around, the streets would be paved with GOLD".

However, I didn't care for Laird's years of marginalizing fans of anything other than what he created.

It's funny you say tha because Kevin said almost those exact words a few years back in an interview. IIRC, it was SuicideGirls.

I hope that Kevin does get in touch with Peter and asks him to collaborate again. With the property being out of their hands the two could legitimately return to creating "Eastman and Laird's Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" at a less stressful pace.

I have always wanted Kevin and Peter to do a "this is how mirage tmnt end" whether they get killed, die or just go on would be a fitting end.

As Kevin said in an interview Peter was more of a purist and Kevin has less of an attachment to the Turtles than he did.

In regards to the perception of Laird being a "dick" or such, well, he's definately a guy with a very aggressive and critical personality. He doesn't mince words, he doesn't hide what he thinks beneath a masque of subtlety and he doesn't have patience for pleasantries.

I think Laird's always been that way. Steve Murphy tells the story of how he was considering quitting Mirage because of the pressure coming down on him from Victor Gorelick. He went to Laird looking for a sympathetic ear and what he got was a "don't let the door hit you on the way out".

Laird's a guy who has no time for what he perceives as "whining", regardless of circumstances.

Those attributes certainly do seem "dickish", but I'm sure they're neccessary for running a global franchise and trying to keep some semblance of creative control over the whole thing.

The last ten years or so have definately been Laird trying to steer the franchise back into the direction he wanted rather than let it get away from him like it did in the 80s and early 90s. While I don't appreciate the marginalizing of fans who preferred other concepts from the franchsie that he didn't approve of, I do acknowledge that he was operating under good intentions, even if his attitude was more than a little brusk.

But I don't like to villify the guy too much. I was rather shocked when he commented on my somewhat critical review of Fugitoid #1 and was very polite and insightful. I had always thought that, if he should ever stumble upon my tiny little blog and deign to comment, it would be something vitriolic and aggressive. But he did and it wasn't. The experience caused me to rethink my view of Laird as a person, anyway.

But whether Laird and Eastman ever "make up" is their personal business and none of mine. If they never work together again, I'll understand. We've already seen what Laird's solo vision for the Turtles is like over the past ten years. I'm ready to see what some other creative minds can do.

The way I feel is that Kevin seems more open minded with the Turtles. He is the co-creator but also sees it as something he create but not the only thing in his life. He has his Heavy Metal and he's happy with it.
Peter of the other hand still kept his responsibility for the Turtles and Mirage. He still works with the turtles crew and I've always felt that he takes the Turtles very personally which isn't a bad thing. Sometimes I would think if I'm the creator of Batman I would have really restricted him to stay a certain way, no campy TV shows, and no silly armors,etc. Just an example.

I don't think PL hates the Fred Wolf characters but rather just don't feel attached to them as his original creations. Sure you can get a physical appearance of Rocksteady and Bebop for the 4Kids show, they did dressed up Gen to look like Rocksteady and have a assassin to look like Bebop but at the end, it's a different show with a different direction. THere was no need to introduce either Rocksteady or Bebop in the new shop as Shredder's henchmen. The only really to do it would be to please the old toons fans. We all know what happens when you're adding elements to the story just to please the fan demand. (Spider-man3)

I respect both Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman for what they have accomplished, beyond that is just personal decisions from them that I as a fan have no control of.

Interesting enough Kevin designed the new mutant fox character for IDW.

Have we ever heard Kevin's stance on other mutants existing in the world with the Turtles/Splinter and Leatherhead?

I dunna, but I actually agree with Peter on the "too many mutants takes away from what makes the turtles unique" issue.

I don't, because Peter also had aliens populate earth so that the turtles could walk around among people like everyone else.

True...and I wasn't a huge fan of that either.

That was the premise he came up with for Volume 4 to change the status quo. It doesn't represent "How Peter Laird prefers to see the Turtles in earlier times."

Having a girl turtle, or the ability for them to reproduce with other humanoid reptile mutants/aliens would subtract from the uniqueness, not the presence of other mutant animals..."Sons of the Silent Age" comes to mind.

Anyone notice the double standard? The TMNT can meet aliens, monsters, or "mystical beings," but as long as they're not mutants, than the Turtles are still special.

Honestly, how does that make any sense? How many freaks have their been in the TMNT universe that weren't mutants?

Cuz watering down the concept for the sake of longevity was just something Kevin was always more comfortable with.

Quoted for truth!

As I continue to watch the 03 series and read the old comics, I've found it interesting just how similar they are. At first I kinda thought 'Hey, I guess Peter really wanted them to stick to the script.' but upon reading the notes he'd written about the individual episodes from when he originally reviewed them, it seems he really didn't do that. Apparently it was the desire of the studio to basically make the series an animated adaption of the comics. Peter actually seems to make insightful feedback for the episodes and definitely kept certain episodes from getting too bad. Overall, I recognize that his control was very good for the series, however long it may have lasted (hard to believe he had any feedback on the last few seasons).

I can't blame the guy for being passionate about the series. Generally I'd consider it a good thing. However suggesting that he didn't hate the 87 series is just not true. If you read some of his more aggressive notes from the 03 series, he practically uses Fred Wolf's name as a swear. Dude hated it, and apparently blamed Wolf for it personally.

Personally I never understood purists. Fans love to quote source materials like bibles and diviations as strickly the worst thing that could possibly be done. However just because a movie is based on a novel doesn't mean that the novel no longer exists. It's just a different version, allowing fans to be able to enjoy each in their own way. Fans who prefer one over the other will always have whichever version they prefer. People who liked the original comics could always go back and read those issues, while watching films and television shows that adapt that story without altering it seem redundant to me. How many times must I watch that rooftop battle with shredder play out?

My guess is IDW and Nick are calling the shots and Kevin is just happy to be a part of it and help make it as good as he can... maybe he didn't mind some of the old characers as much as Pete...

I'm in the camp that feels bringing more mutants into the mix doesn't really ruin the concept of the TMNT.
Sure, in the Mirage comics it was a freak accident and effects the creature through a large timespan, so the same process happening over and over again wouldn't really work that well.
But in the 80s toon, Archie comics, and now the IDW series, where mutagen and the mutation process is more easy to accomplish, why the heck not? The turtles fighting punks and ninjas are great, but now and again it's great to see them fighting other freaks of nature as well. Loves me some Tokka and Rahzar.
And really, the turtles were fighting aliens and monsters all the time in the more serious versions of the franchise. That really isn't much different from fighting other mutants.

My only problem with the Archie series is it felt like there was a new mutant introduced in almost every issue. Some of them were pointless like Chameleon and even Scumbug/Wyrm who served little to no point in "filler" stories.

Then there was that 4-armed tiger guy and the Al'Falqa bird who were just animal beings for no reasons. Even guys who didn't need to be animals, like Chein Khan, were just made into animals for the sake of it.

It actually got kinda ridiculous after a while.

The Mutanimal thing had its heart in the right place, though. Would be interesting to see such a thing now, reconceptualized into like a... DC Vertigo sort of way.

I was fine with the Mutanimals, I mean all the "extra" mutants:

- Chameleon
- Scumbug and Wyrm
- The Wooly Mammoth Caveman
- The Uncanny Trio
- Chein Khan (why couldn't he just stay human?)
- 4 armed Tiger
- Llama
- Al' Falqa
- Vid Vicious (does he even count?)

Of course we got some awesome ones, Armaggon and Verminator X were the best new mutants. I also loved Merdude, Slash and the regular Mutanimals.

As you read through the Archie series, almost every major story arc brings forth a new mutant.

Edit: I totally didn't remember making my previous post, but it probably sums it up better, so no to waste any ones time reading my little rant. Select + delete :)

... or maybe he did and is just so much of a class act and, as others have pointed out, is so enthused to be a part of things going forward that he's more than willing to roll with things no matter how the chips fall and cards are laid out.

+1 on this. This is how I always felt as well..He created something that was marginally successful, but it took someone else re-imagining of the idea for it to really take off... That, combined with how many hours and hours of frustration in dealing with Fred Wolf (who was rumored to rule with an iron fist and ignored just about everyone), would leave anyone bitter about the whole experience..

But, We also owe Peter a whole hell of a lot for giving us the coolest ever 4Kids show. As much as I love the original series, lets face it.. the new show was a 100 times better... Have you ever read some of the script proposals for the series on his blog? We have Pete to thank for keeping some kind of quality control on the series....and the characters in check.

I must have missed where Krang himself (not General Krang, a possible human character) is going to be in IDW.. where was this confirmed?