How many non-filler OT eps?
 

Not that it's needed for anything, but if you were to pare down the series to the really relevant eps for a mini-series, how few do you think you'd be left with? I'm guessing that'd leave us with 20-50 eps. Anyone else have a differing estimate?

We'll start with "Divide And Conquer" and go backwards, listing each ep needed to arrive at that point, until we reach "Turtle Tracks".


EDIT: Okay, I think rephrasing is in order. How many eps does it take to get from point A to point B ("Turtle Tracks" to "Divide And Conquer")? Surely, someone who never saw the show before couldn't watch those two without some serious WTFing going on. So, how many eps would we need between them to make it a satisfying, conclusive story; not just just "which eps are your favorites".

Yikes....how do decide that? I mean do we count episodes that are referenced in one or more other episodes? Because if you do...Mr. Ogg is an essential episode as it mentions Saki's pension for porcelain.

Was Shredder's porcelain fetish ever a necessity tho? It was only ever mentioned in one other ep, IIRC.

Well. I see the first five part mini-series as completely relevant, and well as the thirteen season two episodes. How many episodes over the following 47 were really relevant towards anything? What, I counted maybe around 14 or so. So through the first 65 episodes, there was around maybe 32 relevant episodes. And season four also featured mostly filler episodes. It's not until season five that the show finally gets back to decent sized seasons. Although, seasons 5-7 were probably mostly filler as well. It's not until season eight that the episodes really have relevance to the overall story of the show.

I'd probably include all the episodes in which Casey Jones, Zach, Kerma, the Punk Frogs, Rat King, and Leatherhead appeared. Not that they were all great, but they tend to be the jumping off points for introducing other new characters, locations, and vehicles.

EDIT:
And pretty much everything from the CBS Season 7... "Legend of Koji" and "White Belt, Black Heart" have to be locks! Season 3's "Turtles on Trial" would probably be an important inclusion to convey some of the public distrust of the turtles that is revisited in Season 8-10.

Okay, I think rephrasing is in order. How many eps does it take to get from point A to point B ("Turtle Tracks" to "Divide And Conquer")? Surely, someone who never saw the show before couldn't watch those two without some serious WTFing going on. So, how many eps would we need between them to make it a satisfying, conclusive story; not just just "which eps are your favorites".

Then probably just every episode (after Season 2) in which the Technodrome changes locations, right?

Possibly, but not necessarily...

Key elements of D&Q were: Dregg, PPG (Portable Portal Generator :P), Technodrome in Dimension X, Krang's android body, and probably one or more of the Turtle's vehicles. So, that means we'd have to include the eps where each of those are explained/introduced. Then, we'd have to do the same for each of thos eps as well. After we finish doing that, how many eps do you think we'd have on the list?

Like I said, the first 18 episodes seem to all have relevance. Of the 47 episodes in season three, I'd include: Beneath These Streets, The Fifth Turtle, Enter The Rat King, Return Of The Fly, Beware The Lotus, Usagi Yojimbo, Case Of The Hot Kimono, Usagi Come Home, Leather Head Meets The Rat King, The Missing Map, Bye Bye Fly, Big Rip Off, Big Break In, and Big Blow Out. So that's roughly half of the first 65 episodes have relevance towards the overall story of the show.

From season four, I'd say that pretty much only Plan 6 From Outer Space, Son Of Return Of The Fly II, Slash, and Farewell Lotus Blossom have relevance. I've seen the episodes of seasons five through seven, but no where near as many times as I've seen the episodes from seasons 1-4. So I'm not the best person to judge which of those episode have the most relevance. But I will say that all of the final 24 "red sky" episodes should be included.

I think the easiest way for me to do this would be to take a list of all the episodes and then cross out which ones are filler, leaving only episodes that introduce characters and have activity that is felt for future episodes.

Of course, this then makes you wonder what you would consider to be significant enough. For example, you could cut out all the episodes that feature the Rat King and it wouldn't change the storyline at all.

There is no such thing as filler in the OT. Every ep was just another adventure.

This is ridiculous since the Turtles always battle more than just Shredder.

Ah, but then he reappears once in Season 8 (and the theme song, yo!:tsmile:), so you'd at least need his debut episode.

I think what gobo is shooting for is the "essentials" that tell the story from Turtle Tracks to Divide And Conquer. These are the episodes that would "required viewing" if someone wanted to know what was going on.

Oh, so we aren't necessarily counting all of Season 8, even though it is one continuous story that sets the stage for the Season 9-10?

You peeps are so persnickety!:tlol:

Eh... well... I guess we have to recognize "Get Shredder!" and "Turtle Trek" from Season 8. And those episodes are set up by "Shredder Triumphant" in Season 7.

Gobo is right when he says start at the back and go from there. If we are using "Divide and Conquer" as a ultimate reference point, we should probably start with the later episodes in mind and work our way back to Season 1, asking "what prior information do we need to know to understand this particular episode we want to watch?"

But really... focusing on the last episode and then cutting out all the non-essentials to that episode's plot... where's the fun in that? :-)

It'll serve as an aid in other reference list. :) I think the reason why Jester's guide and Joe's chronological ep list have fallen into oblivion is because of the staggering weight of the tasks. If they had a set of primary eps to focus on before worrying about the 'fillers', it would be less daunting a task.

Eh, you should just join Jester and me in a TMNT Commentary session sometime. It's a lot more fun than typing out some boring ol' list!:twink:

That's the big thing. I just lost interest in the list, because it requires repeat, and often stop and go, stop and go viewing of the episodes. To type all the stuff I decided to put in the guide, it could take me an hour for a 20 minute episode...and that's just a tad to time consuming.

So Winters, when are we gonna start up "season 2" of the commentaries? :P

I'm waiting on your computer to heal up... and on you to recruit some guest talent!

Oh...well my computer is back in business. Hey, Gobo, wanna do some commentaries!?

Shoot, I'd do one tonight if you're up for it.

At work for the next 3 evenings. :P

Depends what's on the menu.

Any 2 episodes you want...that we haven't previously touched.

Haven't been keeping up. Didn't you start jumping around?

Yes we have...

I know. It was a kids show with a bunch of wacky adventures each episode. It isn't like there was one main story arc going on throughout the series that we were waiting for a conclusion to.

I don't really like the dismissing of "filler" anyway, as if filler=bad story. When written well, "filler" provides character development or an interesting side story. If you want a concise overall story, watch a movie. A regular series is going to be drawn out.

That's why this thread doesn't make much sense. You can cut out all the non-Shredder/Krang episodes....but yet many Shredder/Krang episodes themselves were just random plots that got foiled in every episode.

The OT never had any "this ep is more important than that ep" vibe to it.

Its like saying which Batman:TAS eps are filler. How does that make sense? Every episode was just Batman stopping a criminal.

But there are certain episodes that introduce characters that are featured again in later episodes. Using Batman:TAS as an example, you HAVE TO include "Nothing To Fear" and "Pretty Poison." Those episodes introduce the Scarecrow and Poison Ivy, they're essential to the show. However, "The Last Laugh" is just a random episode featuring the Joker. You could miss the episode, and it wouldn't take away anything from the show's overall story.

That's how American cartoons were written back then.

TMNT and B:TAS were aired in such a way that you could watch most episodes out of order, aside from introduction episodes, and it didn't matter.

I know when I was a kid I didn't see these shows in their proper order, and it didn't matter to me since every ep was just a new adventure.

However with shows like Justice League or TMNT 2k3, there it felt like you had to watch them in order.

Well the original five part mini-series, as well as the thirteen season two episodes weren't just random stories. In addition the final 24 episodes had a good deal of continuity in them as well. But seasons 3-7 did consist mostly of stand alone stories.

Agreed. But for the most part, it didn't really matter.

The continuity of the show was written in such a way that you could watch a Season 6 episodes after a Season 3 episode, and aside from the Technodrome being in a different location, it didn't matter.

Who here actually watched the OT in order when it aired on TV? We didn't even know the proper order of the show after the first season.

I watched religiously, so I can say I watched in broadcast order. But, even that order seemed awkward. I didn't see the ep where Raph and whoever were chasing a module and burned their feet after it went underground until after several other eps showing the Turtles observing these machiness and how they operate.

This is slightly off-topic, but I remember when I was a kid watching the show if an episode's story wasn't particularly compelling and then that was combined with one or more of the main voice actors being replaced by someone else for that show, it really felt like a filler episode even to a 5 year old kid.

At the time I was thinking, man this episode was so bad they couldn't even get all of the cast together to record the lines, they just slapped it together.

Am I alone in finding it ironic that CyberCubed is calling out a thread as ridiculous?

If the OT had filler than I guess you can say the whole show was pointless. You can pretend the series ended after Season 1 for example.

I think CC's been very well behaved since Season 9 came out on DVD!

;)

Cubed, you're making a mountain out of a mole hill...

Gobo is just trying to pin down the episodes that advance the ongoing story and which episodes are pretty much stand alone stories.

That is what he does best.

True...and I'm the grand stater of the obvious...explains my extreme post count.

IMO the non-filler eps, besides the first 5 and the Big trilogy, all of season 2, were any ep that introduced recurring characters, like the Frogs or whatever, and any ep referencing earlier eps. As well as any ep where the Technodrome changed locations. And all of Red Sky.