So what so the potential short coming that would make us hate this show?
 

Now, I'm bring this from a vague memory from maybe a year ago when some people here got a sneak peak at of the show. Someone said something along the lines that while everything looked great, there was one potential element that could piss us off. Someone actually downright hated what he/she saw. They weren't allowed to say what it was though.

Fast forward to today. I've seen every clip released and beyond minor gripes, I am genuinely excited for the new show. I was only lukewarm before comic con. Since the show is only a few months away, is it possible to tell us what could have potentially ruin it for us? Has it been removed in the final product? Did the people who were there for the preview reveal it in another thread? The forums aren't exactly easy to go through now with threads exploding. I'm very curious.

I think it was teenage April that bothered people during the 2011 reveal, but everyone has accepted it by now.

I had my concerns early on, but after we started hearing stuff, I started looking more and more forward to it. I especially got excited when we got word that Rob Paulsen was gonna be the voice of Donatello.

I think it was the idea of making Mikey break the fourth wall in the middle of action scenes. Oh wait, wrong show.

In my honest opinion, it was most likely the April age change.

That was Joe Grotesque. Ask him.

The only thing everyone was iffy on was April. I think it's going to work, though.

April being closer in age to the Turtles isn't that strange when you think about it. As long as she doesn't wind up having the, "annoying kid sidekick" role that a lot of other shows have.

She might wind up like Cody Jones in Fast Forward though...where she comes along on some adventures and helps with Don on computer stuff.

I figured it would be something like that. Considering I already know this now and is still excited, I don't mind. I mean, the idea is weird and it's one of my nitpicks, but I'm willing to give it a chance.

I fail to see why its weird. April being more of a sister to the turtles should have happened a long time ago.

From the way it looks, just about everyone is younger in this series. The turtles seem to be only-just teenagers and going through growing pains, Splinter is an adult but not a senior, and so it's not amiss for April to follow suit.

The only potential problem is that considering she's a teenager, she can't really be anything that's relevent to us older fans. She can't be a news reporter or a lab assistant as a teenager; all she can be is a student. I suppose that connects with actual teenagers and pre-teens, but it just feels trite and potentially digressive to me. At least she's being described as a somewhat nerdy high school student who doesn't fit in, though, which means that there probably isn't much focus on her being a student. To be honest, I wouldn't mind if this series' April spent most of her screentime kicking ass alongside the Turtles.

Oh, and originally, I think by far the most offensive thing about this show to many people was its being CG. Now that the CG has improved dramatically from what it was in the early previews, though, and it's provided designs for some neat toys, that anger has subsided.

Probably a lame plot and story at this point is what matters the most. The voices are set, the animation is coming into focus, the character roster is basically in place, and the promotion/hype is set. If we end up having boring dialogue, lame battles, unfunny jokes, too many stereotypes, and eventually being too formulaic, then viewers will find the show as uninteresting and revert back toward older TMNT shows and other cartoons.

Over hype usually kills everything.

At first, I had a problem with teen April, but I can see why they're going that way. The show isn't made for adults, so it makes sense from a demographic standpoint to give April less of a motherly role and more of a "fifth turtle" type role. It's certainly a better move than Venus, although I probably would have just used Angel for the role of "the new kid", just to avoid fundamentally changing any characters too drastically, but that's just me, and ultimately I'm fine with what they went with, unless they mess up in the personality department. I don't know what April's personality will be. I generally tend to prefer tech savvy April over nosy reporter April, but whatever they go with, I just hope she doesn't end up a Wesley (like Cody Jones) or a Scrappy in distress (like '87 April).

What still bothers me about the info they've released is the idea of Donatello having a crush on April. It might work out fine, but on paper it just seems like something out of a furry fanfic. I don't suspect it'll be enough of a problem to ruin the show, though. Unless they put a lot of focus on it, and draw it out for the entire series, which could potentially get annoying.

In general, I think the thing that could make me give up on the show is simply bad writing. Most other things can pretty much be dealt with if the writing is solid. Unless executives start making demands that step all over the writers' attempts to tell stories, or demands that try to make the show into something that's trying to be something else (like seasons 5 and 6 of the 4kids show).

A recent example where I gave up on a cartoon would be "Scooby-Doo: Mystery Incorporated", which I checked out after hearing that it's supposedly funny and self-aware. It could have been, but it suffers from too much sexism. The female characters are self-entitled control freaks (Velma being reduced to Shaggy's bossy girlfriend who's always trying to change his behavior, and Daphne reduced to someone who expects Fred to become her boyfriend without her having to even ask, and she gets angry whenever he so much as talks to another female even though they're not even in a relationship, nor has she made any honest attempt to communicate with him) and male characters are dumb (at first I thought Fred was just gay, which I thought was an interesting take on it, but then it turned out he's just really bad at subtext and too obsessed with building traps to notice social cues...which by description sounds like he's got severe Asperger, but the writers just play it off like he's a doofus). After a few episodes of hoping the sexism would subside, I stopped watching because it just got too annoying. If the new TMNT show falls into this or a similar all-characters-are-one-dimensional-and-either-dumb-or-jerks trap, I'll probably give up on it, but so far I don't have much reason to suspect that'll happen.

Oh, another thing that would make me lose interest is if the show gets so desperate to be funny yet so incompetent at humor that it just feels needy and forced, and the story suffers for it. By the trailers, it looks like the show will be funny, so I don't suspect this problem will be popping up, but if it does, my patience may wear thin quickly. Failed drama can be funny, but failed comedy is just painful.

I am fairly certain the show will contain three things in abundant supply:

1) Humor. Probably more of the dialogue type than outright slapstick, but they're obviously going the more comedic route this time around.
2) Action. From the footage and info released, this show is all about real Ninjitsu; no slapstick ala the 1987 series and no mystical chakra powers ala the Lost Season of the 2003 series. That's good. Whatever happens, adaptations of this series shouldn't neglect the "ninja" part.
3) Ethics. A part of the title this series definitely doesn't seem to neglect is the "teenage" part. Apparently, a substantial bit of this show will be about coming out into the world, dealing with brotherhood, and searching for a purpose in life. This could be good or bad. I approve of edutainment on paper, but too often it's used to teach lessons that are quixotic and one-sided.

Everything else is still up in the air. I like that a TMNT show is finally giving Shredder some much needed depth after so much one-dimensionality in past incarnations, but whether this will lead to truly great plots remains up in the air. I don't know how elaborate this show's universe will become. Drama isn't a sure bet at this point, because so far I haven't seen much subtletly.

That skepticism noted, I'm still going to watch it. The three ensured virtues, along with loads of discontinuity nods and other fanservice, are enough to lure me to even a sub-standard show, and I'd only quit watching it if other things become truly annoying.

^how can brother part be bad? tmnt IS abt brotherhood n fight against evil...

I thought the short coming was that this TMNT is a Nickelodeon CGI show.

Nickelodeon's CGI shows aren't good in my opinion.

Usually they just recycle old jokes from the movies they're based off of (Like Kung Fu Panda)

So that's what I thought. Nickelodeon + CGI = FAIL

As for April...I don't like that's she's their age. She looks TOO MUCH like a kid to me. She looks more like she's a pre teen than a teenager to me. And Donnie is going to be in love with her....I don't think parents want their kids to see beastiality encouraged (like if they showed Don's fantasy of being with April and having kids of their own and stuff.)

now u mentioned it, splinter does look young. maybe saki will look young too. young is good...:D i wonder how d casey look in the show.

I'll second that.

I will dislike the show if it the characters are one dimensional ( and it doesn't look like that will happen). One thing I can't stand in a show -or anything else for that matter- is when the characters don't have much personality.

For me personally it would be:

- A story arc that wouldn't go anywhere (has a weak plot) and/or episodes that are sloppily written.
- Many out of character moments (but I think we don't have to worry much about that),
- Having too many filler episodes unless some of them are original and written with a twist.
- Having too many "funny" side-characters/villains and not enough serious ones.
- Bad dialogue.


As for what I've seen so far, it looks very promising. I have to get used to April but her presence wouldn't make me dislike the show, far from it. The main characters like the turtles and Shredder have quite a lot of detail in their design, I only hope that the less important characters will get this treatment as well (although it doesn't have to be on the same level), otherwise they would stand out too much.

For me its going to be the stories and have it lead up to something big. Do story arcs, just don't do silly one off shows that don't mean anything like Ultimate Spiderman.

yea bad dialogue is a kill... n that include out of character....

The animation shown in previews unfortunately seems to be heading in that goofy direction, whatwith all of its super-deformed expressions, but given the information released about the characters (the turtles being in the process of learning the ropes, April's father missing, Shredder having a daughter and a grudge against Splinter connecting to her, etc), I know there will be continuity.

Ultimate Spider-Man is a success with kids, which most of us frankly aint anymore, so if the Nick show has the same level of humour, I'd try to best focus more on the story being told and not fret too much about things I'm too old to appreciate, that's how I came to appreciate the gist of Teen Titans, which had compelling stories to compliment it's childish comedy.

Its brand of comedy was really grating, though...

I agree, whether we're talking about Teen Titans or Ultimate Spider-Man. This sort of humor seems to abide by the philosophy of "Let's go all-out because we can," and too often it just ruins the flow of what would at least be decent action.

I have a lower tolerance when it comes to shows like Ultimate Spider-Man. Seeing as I'm one of the few people over the age of 12 who really enjoy the series, I'm the one who founded of the Ultimate Spider-Man Animated Series Wiki.

Back on topic, taking what Ciro Nieli said at the Comic Con, a lot of thought was put into this TMNT series. He seemed to understand what he was doing when making the show. Judging from the details of Shredder and Splinter's backstory, the Rat King's new character and personality, and seemingly high level of threat the villains will have, this new incarnation of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles may have the potential to be the best of the bunch. It probably won't have as much quality as, say, Legend of Korra, but the opportunities here could introduce more and more fans to the franchise, both young and old.

Based on the clips I found the humor generally funny and not at all forced. I think its going to work.

I do agree with concerns in the plotlines and continuity though, hopefully that is good. It probably won't be as plot heavy as 4kids was though.

Yeah i saw some of that goofy stuff. I actually didn't mind it so far on some of the clips i saw. As the other poster said, the humor isn't forced. It's so hard to judge though, i want to see a few WHOLE episodes first. So far I think it works OK so i think it works for this. For Ult. Spider-Man i think it doesn't fit, but that could be also be to the fact that it has no continuity. That show is just horrible.

If the TMNT show has interesting story lines, i'll be watching.

USM actually does have a little bit of continuity (anything to do with Venom), but yeah, there's not ENOUGH continuity.

For me it would be:
- Weak and repetitive plot (Power Rangers style);
- Goofy character designs (I've not been too impressed with Dogpound and Fishface so far; Snakeweek is bizarely growning on me);
- Not enough ninja fights and feel;
- Leo being constantly overshadowed by Raph (still haven't digested Leo's in regards to Raph TMNT 07);
- April acting like a tween instead of a teen/young adult;
etc.

LOL. Ok, some of those points could be considered as potential pet peeves. :P

I am perfectly okay with the April age change, the splinter origin change (it makes more sense, really) as well as the new theme song. It's not the direction I would have went with the song, but it could have easily turned out worse. Trying to hear it with a child's ears, it's difficult to say if it will be as catchy and memorable as the OT's song, but it's proven to be hard to top.

So, what would make me hate the show? Based on what I have seen with my own eyes so far, I can't imagine hating the new show. It's more or less a guarantee that I will watch every episode. There are a few things that would bother me though:

• There are a lot of shots scattered throughout the trailers where you see a character moving in the foreground while in the background everything is completely static, including other characters. I am hoping this is merely due to unfinished animation. If this is a style choice or cost-saving measure, I dislike it greatly!
• campy and overly slapstick jokes as seen in the OT, I think we are in a different era and kids expect different things from their toons now. I hope the turtles act a little closer to how they did in the 4Kids show. At the SDCC 2012 panel they expressed how they wanted to pick the best elements from ALL the various turtle incarnations of the past and hopefully come up with a sort of ultimate version. There's no question that the turtles like to goof on one-another, so I'm sure that will be included. Just, please, this isn't the three stooges, so keep it in check.
• no progression. I like to feel like there is an overarching story being told. In a lot of shows, the real plot progress only takes place in the first few episodes, as characters are introduced and meet each-other. After that they just repeat the same patterns, with little meaningful events happening which carry over into future episodes. I want to feel that by the end of each season, we are in a bit of a different place from where we started off. Characters grow, if something happens in one episode it isn't just rest in the very next episode, goals are achieved and have meaning to the story.

I think I would have been able to deal with USM if it hadn't come in the wake of Spectacular Spiderman, which was Spectacular.

On topic as long as the show finds that magical balance where its enjoyable for children and for adults and stay the course from there I think this show will be fine. A lot of the shows on Nick now have this balance to some degree, best example iCarly, and that is why I think they are successful.

The problem is when a show that has a split audience decides to go too far either way and alienate one demographic. This is the biggest problem Nick shows have. They get an audience with a show and then the just start phoning it in expecting the love of the audience will keep them watching.

If the that is what happens with TMNT2k12 then I will be thouroughly disappointed. Overall, consistency will be what I am looking for in the new show.

From what we've been told I don't see forsee any one thing in the first season that's a deal breaker.

For me it'd be the overall tone but again from what we've seen I think it has a good balance. Even the more stylised humour doesn't seem as blanant and no where near as intrusive as Ultimate Spider-Man, it doesn't even seem to be Teen Titans levels and we know there's some serious aspects to the show such as Yoshi's family aspect etc.

What would ruin this show for me:

1) Preachy guff about how heroes don't kill. Not that I want the turtles to kill people, but they shouldn't even touch this message.
2) Too much stupid humor, with the example being the goofy episodes of Teen Titans and every episode of Ultimate Spider-Man. If it's at the infrequent levels of the first, though (ie; mostly relegated to Big-Lipped-Alligator-Episodes) then it will be tolerable.

Very little. At worst, I could just see myself not being particularly interested. We're not in the target demographic, so I couldn't imagine "hating" it if it were at least successful with kids.

But I suppose it would bother me if the series displayed huge amounts of potential, was entertaining, etc., only to be marred by, I don't know, too many juvenile comedy beats. That's actually one of my biggest gripes with the 4Kids series. Even somber moments and grim episodes had to toss in a (usually horribly unfunny) Mikey comedy beat.

Not to say it can't be funny. In fact, I really hope it is. I just hope it isn't tonally confused and actively unfunny, as a lot of kids' actions shows tend to be.

It was their insistence on using shell puns, even in dire situations ("Same As It Never Was" is likely the main culprit here), that bugged me the most.

There are a few seasons of Power Rangers where the plots arent weak and repetitive, though I won't argue with you that MOST of the seasons are

i hope this show will go ultimate spider man style.

I hope that the creators of the show strongly disagree with you.

That video must have been the training scene. I just saw it earlier today and it was pretty horrible. The animation is ugly, the voice acting is bleh, the anime crap is out of place and horrible, and humor is extremely low brow. Even the fighting wasn't very good. They did a great job cheating things so they didn't have to show as much movement. I'd expect that from a low budget 2D animation project. There's no excuse to pull that crap with CG animation unless they're going to claim it's to play into the "anime" style that they shouldn't be using in the first place.

Yeah it's for 10 year olds, well that excuse is wearing thin. Honestly it's just that, an excuse. You can make awesome animated series that both kids and adults like. Both liked Avengers: EMH, Spectacular Spider-man, Wolverine and the X-men, and the whole of the DCAU. With a property like turtles you'd think they'd want to try considering it's long history. My roommate watched it with me in my room that's covered with Ninja Turtles artwork, books, and figures. He looked at me when it was over and said "You're not gonna actually bother to watch this are you?". He knows I'm a lifelong fan and that was his response. It was like he was embarrassed for me.