Were Bebop/Rocksteady only in the Raph special to gauge fan interest?
 

Its been over a year since Bebop/Rocksteady appeared in the IDW series, and that has remained their one and only appearance in the series so far.

While every other character has returned and played some further role, including Alopex who debuted in the same issue, Bebop/Rocksteady never appeared again. We also have no indication if or when they'll ever appear again.

Unlike Krang and the others who obviously had a plotline laid out from the beginning, it seems to me that Bebop/Rocksteady was just thrown in there to gauge fan reaction. Their story was left open ended in case we don't see them again, and if not enough positive reaction was met, the story can simply ignore and move on without them.

I'm starting to think those two actually were included to have token cameos, and it doesn't appear like we're ever going to see the story go back to them as mutants. The fact that over a year has passed and we've seen no mention of them since makes me think they're being forgotten.

Another thing to consider is that the Shredder stuff only just recently started to take off, despite the foreshadowing in the Raphael Micro.

Yeah, it's been a while, but with Shredder just showing up, and the battle between Shredder/Turtles, Shredder/Krang, etc, I think we'll see more mutants, including Bebop and Rocksteady, soon. We're already getting a bad ass looking Slash.

i don't think that they're being forgotten. to consider the fact that in-comic time is moving rather very slowly (only a few days passed since they first appeared)... give it some time and maybe they'll show. such highly memorable characters such as bebop and rocksteady... who played such a huge role in the OT... deserve a better mutation/introduction than just a cameo... that same scene did not require these characters because the center focus was shredder and the turtles. alopex and karai took a backseat in that issue due to that fact alone. so just give it some time. maybe the "next week (comic-time)" will feature them make a bigger introduction.

yeah it's kinda hard to imagine that the whole deal with Leo fighting the Foot, Splinter being captured and rescued and fight with the Shredder and blah blah all took place in about 2 days while it was about 6 issues and 2 micro-specials in the comics.

I got the idea that they were introduced to see if fans wanted more.If enough fans wrote in and fans wanted to see them they would mutate into Bebop and Rocksteady.So if you want them write/emkail in and tell them.It did gauge my disinterest at that point fear a redux of the b&w comics,but now I think its something for all fans.

I sure hope they bring back Rocksteady and Bebop. We didn't even hear their names mentioned in the Raphael Micro.

This is what has me worried, we have heard NOTHING from these two since the micro issue! I'm starting to fear they really were nothing but a homage. Tom, Bobby... please get back to these guys soon! :(

Again as I've asked in many other areas, Why? Seriously I want to know why. I understand that people liked them in the OT. I'll admit I liked their action figures growing up. But what does having them around add to the story? How does their inclusion make it better?

So what's the bad news?

The (potential, premature) bad news is that regardless of how you feel about past versions of these characters, or the importing for importing's sake of old characters, it's sloppy writing to have so prominently featured these two thugs in that issue and teased their mutations if they're never going to follow through.

Although, let's talk about this: Other than the Rock Soldier's "terrapin armor," have their been any other hints that a human to animal mutation is possible in this continuity? So far the ooze has seemed to work Mirage-style, so it's sort of a baffling position to begin with.

It's good news to those who don't like them, bad news for those of us who do. Everybody has diffrent opinons.

I'm betting that while Krang's faction mutates animals, the Foot Clan's faction mutates people.

Hm. Plausible. They're going to have to come up with a better explanation than last-animal-you-touched, though. I'm fine with it in the sillier series, but that's too much suspension of disbelief for IDW, even given the liberal dosage of zany sci-fi it already has. And we'd need a plausible way for the Foot to be able to engineer it as such.

Although, yeah. I suppose for that matter it's possible, even probable, that Alopex was originally human.

Honestly, I think it'd be bad news either way, just by virtue of being an unfired Chekhov's gun.

They're ALREADY in the story. I never expected them to be in IDW but there they were.

I honestly wish they were in the Nick show instead, their characters fit the series better.

The great Bebop and Rocksteady debate...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5RnalAoswD...600/35zuqt.jpg

I get it, lots of people have a soft nostalgia spot for Bebop and Rocksteady in their minds (up to and probably including, I have to assume, the creative team on IDW TMNT). It becomes embarrassing to listen to/read people try to rationalize them as sound characters in the Fred Wolf show in the here and now ("They were kinda badass in the first two episodes! Really! They did stuff!" etc. etc.), so it's really just as simple as that.

Now, could Tom and company revise Bebop and Rocksteady to such a degree that they wouldn't be incompetent, ineffectual goons whose only purpose is comic relief and slapstick goofiness? Of course, that's easy. But then they wouldn't be Bebop and Rocksteady anymore... that was kinda their whole thing. So what, then, would be the point?

The only answer is nostalgia, pure and simple. And nostalgia is a dangerous thing in serialized comics. I'd rather just get the best possible stories with the strongest possible characters and characterization.

And besides, Bebop and Rocksteady BOTH getting spanked by rookie Raphael and a rookie Casey Jones in the Raphael special, even if it's pre-mutation, doesn't exactly succeed in setting them on any kind of a path to badassdom.

The way I see it, another thing holding them back was the 80's toon itself, where it HAD to be silly and stuff. Rarely did we see Bebop or Rocksteady actually shoot a Turtle. They would never allow them to punch a Turtle in the face... just like the guys were reduced to throwing pizza and cutting chandeliers on the bad guys. So even if Bebop and Rocksteady return was dumb thugs... at least they'd be allowed to throw down with the Turtles.

What's the point of Bebop and Rocksteady is the same as asking what's the point of Apolex and Old Hob? Hell, Krang was taking showers with his robot suit on and watching soap operas in the old show. They removed those elements and kept the 'alien warlord' angle. Bebop and Rocksteady were mutated street thugs. Keep that angle and remove the overexxagerated stupidity.

The whole "debate" over whether Rocksteady and Bebop are worth importing seems kind of moot at this point, though, doesn't it?

I'm not sure I would have voted them back in, personally, or Krang, or anybody. The practice of re-imagining characters is its own issue -- one that plagues franchise genre like no other type of fiction, and one I find myself waffling over all the time. But the issue is that they've already been introduced, fully teased, and it would just be odd to not see it through.

I wouldn't care if those two punks looked nothing like Rocksteady and Bebop and were named Sparky and Skip; they still talked about getting mutated; it still has to happen. Hell, they could mutate into a lion and a zebra and I wouldn't care. It just has to happen.

I've said it before and I'll say it again; the idea that a goofy character cannot be reinvented as a good and serious character doesn't hold water.

Again I point to the character 'Mister Zero', who quickly became Mister Freeze from the Batman comics. Goofy mad scientist with cold-based powers whose only value throughout the seventies and eightes was the much loathed 'nostalgia'. Yet when Bruce Timm and Tim Daly got hold of him, they reinvented Freeze into a tragic character with a complex backstory about a terminally ill wife. This origin was so good, that the comics adapted from the show.

Following 'goofy character that is goofy and cannot be remade' argument, Freeze should have been dumped and a new character made. Yet a good story was born out of not doing so. Also the argument that a serious rocksteady and bebop are not the same character; are the Adam West Batman and the BTAS batman the same character? Most people would say yes, they are simply diffrent interperetations of said character.

I would be happy either way, but I won't lose sleep if they never show up again. IDW has already borrowed and made reference to so much from the OT I don't think their re-appearance mutated or otherwise is necessary to satisfy persons that feel everything from their childhood needs to be updated for nostalgia's sake.

I have always liked them while not favorites. These two characters I always wanted to see what else could be done with them because it seems these were held back and labled by those who like darker stuff as the symbols of goofy turtles. Also,I would like for a chance to see the "and" removed and see them as individual personalities. IDW is the perfect place for it happen!

One of the ninja notes said "we'll see those guys again" in it. So we'll them again.

The point I keep trying to make is that just naming a character Bebop or Rocksteady does not make them better by default. Original characters can fill roles and further the story just as well as having these two back, and to an extent I think have. Just cause those two thugs were in the issue doesn't mean that is who they were. It could have been a nod to the fans and now it is done. I think people are holding on to an idea and not letting go.

I like the fact that Tom and company have made new characters. That they haven't felt the need to go full force into just reinterpreting old characters. I hope to see many new characters. That isn't to say I don't like the old characters, rather that they have their place in Turtle lore it is time for some other characters to come forth.

I hope we get some more original characters as well. The only original characters they've introduced so far are Old Hob and Apolex. All the other characters in this comic are the main cast of nearly every incarnation, with the exception of Shadow from the 4Kids cartoon.

Its Angel not Shadow.

i welcome all-new characters being created. And I'd love to see more. But idw seems to be doing a gat job making silly characters into badasses. Krang is the only one I can think of right now. Perhaps they can give bebop and rocksteady the same treatment and altogether removing the bafoon aspect that try are so infamously associated with. I'd prefer it if they do show these two again for continuity's sake. And like them or not... whether they did anything useful or not... they were prominent in the OT. That reason alone gives them more right to be in this series compared to angel. Give them a chance to be rebooted. It is a new series with different rules. They have so much potential to wreck the Turtles.

I don't want too many new characters before we get the likes of Rat King, Leatherhead, the Triceratons and possibly Hun.

It seems like they want to introduce all the staples first. Old Hob was the one and only new break out character so far, and I imagine he'll be brought back.

With Slash introduced I get the feeling that we're in good hands.

agreed. It seems that that's what they're doing... characters-wise and story-wise as well. Get the old crap out of the way and then when all that needed to be said and done is out of the way... go nuts. I don't think we've really seen the last of bebop and rocksteady. Hopefully this time... they can be independent characters as opposed to being treated as two peas in a pod.

As for new characters... one newbie every now and then isn't so bad.

The only two reasons for R&B are nostalgia and comic relief. Otherwise, they can get too repetitive too fast, since even in their toughest form in Season 1 of the OT they were still mere bumbling mutants. Still, it was a nice shout out to target fans and in both IDW and 4kids, they were thugs/mutants that simply provided enough resemblance to compare. They are really just your average ghetto thugs that steal, vandalize, and shoot people that just exposes the dangers of criminal activity.

http://newsliteimgs.s3.amazonaws.com...5_simpsons.jpg
Dammit, I always get those two confused!

How does this apply to them and not to Krang? Krang was comic relief as well, with all his jokes and the basic 'married couple banter' thing with Shredder. Even Turtles Forever threw in the popcorn eating bit. They took the character and made him a no-nonsense threat and noone seems to be crying 'but it's not the same character anyway if he's not watching John and Marsha!!!'

mExacatly my thoughts... I cant see why people are so quick to shoot these two down when the saame can be said for krang. Hell... Krang didnt do squat half the time except insult shredder and send goons. And look at what idw has done to krang now... He's a full-on threat... Even taking out the invading neutrino threat himself. I say make rocksteady and bebop a huge threat. Real rhinos and wild bores can be viscious. Why cant they? This is a new continuity man. Type-casting these two into bumbling idiots seems to be the main problem that nonfans are having trouble with.

If this logic stands... Then tokka andd rahzar should remain babies if they ever show up on idw. And call shredder mama and fall for pre-fight donuts. This is stupid because they have so much potential threat and this applies to bebop and rocksteady as well. Again... This depends on how idw interprets them... And i doubt theyll go the same route fred wolf went with these characters.

Um, I am--or at least, I'm complaining because they took a that key aspect away from him, and have yet to replace it with anything substantial. He might be more threatening, but so far, he's done nothing that a thousand other villains in a thousand other stories haven't done before.

That said, I'm beginning to come around to the idea that Bebop and Rocksteady don't quite present the obstacles Krang does, because their appeal, as I understand it, didn't rest on their personalities as much as it does on nostalgia and their character designs. That said, if the only significant change made to them is to treat them more seriously, then I'd rather they not bother.

It seems to me that the entire premise of the IDW series so far was based on Season 1 of the original cartoon. Add in the couple of Mirage references like Karai and Fugitoid, but otherwise it feels like a reimagining of the first 5 episodes of the original cartoon.

This is probably why they were there.

I mean you have Krang, the mutagen, the Rock Soldiers, Traag, then the Technodrome, then Dimension X, and then the Neutrinos....etc.

To be honest, there is a slight precedent for a Krang the Conqueror who is more than just comic relief and voiced by Pat Fraley. Archie's Krang, though still pretty goofy, committed acts of genocide. And let us not forget the time he took over Shredder's body. The odd thing is, where Archie's Krang was maybe slightly more evil than his Fred Wolf counterpart, Bebop and Rocksteady seemed to become more docile, eventually being sent to a planet of animals to live in peace.

Weren't Bebop and Rocksteady randomly mutated animals instead of mutated people in the Archie continuity? That might explain their more docile behavior.

In both the cartoon and Archie comics Bebop and Rocksteady were human thugs cross-mutated with their animal counterparts as sort of a genetic fusion.

So, like, they have both the minds of a human and the mind of an animal? Because I swear I remember them reminiscing about living in a zoo or something, I guess that could explain it.

They were street punks who were under Shredder's employ. He used them for his mutation experiements. He mutated Bebop and Rocksteady with the respective animal the two animorphized into. The other members were temporarily mutated as well. In the Archie Comics Bebop and Rocksteady had animal instincts that they did not have in the'87 cartoon. As they liked the idea of roaming free on an Eden Planet while in the '87 cartoon they would hav enver considered that because they had the same actions and insticts they always had as humans.

I am pretty confident that we will end up seeing R&B again in the future. I am pretty indifferent to the idea. While I feel that their OT versions have no place in IDW's continuity I trust that their characters will be handled in an appropriate way.