What is it that this new series has...
 

...that the previous attempts at TMNT revival after the original cartoon series did not?

The toys are selling like crazy, the cartoon is widely watched...

I'm just curious here as to how the new Nick 2012 show seems to have struck that TMNT chord perfectly that the original cartoon and toyline did back in the late 80s.
I hear everywhere on the internet about how it's a big hit. The toys are predicted to be a big seller for the holiday season.

What is it that this latest incarnation has that the previous TMNT stuff that came after the original series did not that seems to have clicked?
Is it the mix of classic with a more modern feel? Is it that fact that there is a lot of nods to the original cartoon and toyline in everything? I'm curious.

Don't get me wrong here. I enjoy the new toys and cartoon. I just recall no where near that much attention given to say...the 2003 series or obviously Next Mutation...

Let us discusss thoughts.

Simple, it's on Nickelodeon.

For me, I personally like the brotherly chemistry. That's my favorite part besides the character designs. The 4 of them really act like brothers. For my 3 year old, I think she likes the designs of the characters. And after a few mins of watching the premier she knew all 4 of their names and their colors.

Yup. Nick was promoting the bajeesus out of this, long before anyone had a chance to see how good it was.

That being said, I doubt any version of TMNT has been so widely accepted and praised by fans since the first or second movie...

Its doing amazingly well because of the people behind it. They got Emmys, Annies, Peabody Awards, all kinds of wonderful talent and Voice Talent behind it! It's Nickelodeons BEST Show right now. They understood what made these characters so popular in the 90's and they are doing a damn fine job at recapturing that magic for the new generation (Something the 2003 Series Completely missed).

I was thinking about how Spongebob is Nickelodeons highest viewed show right now (2nd Being Turtles) and how TMNT should have beaten it in terms of views by now but, Spongebob had very low views when it started out and it got higher and higher as the Show went along resulting in Video Games, Movies, TV Specials, Figures.

Just think about this Show in a few years....it's already doing really good so It's only gonna get more popular (Unless I'm missing something). I don't know about the action figures, can someone give me proof that its selling more than the 2003 figures line?

And as for the viewers for the Show, the Newest Episode garnered 2.8 Million during thanksgiving and keep in mind most people thought a new Episode wouldn't air so its doing really good! I'm sure the series will stay at 3 Million average for its 1st Season. Does anyone have the Kids 6-12 Ratings for last Saturdays Episode? And I'm really eager to know what Kids think of this new Show, does anybody know?

Big company behind it.

I don't think 2K3 did shabbily at all. The CGI movie didn't either and while bringing new elements in was essentialy a sanitized version of the show.

Let's not forget that it was the movie that made Nick want to do a CGI series and while again using new elements the new series is very much inspired by the 2K7 movie.

The show isn't that big a hit ratings wise at least not yet. Ratings have been declining rapidly since the opener.

Good writing, good cast, good animation, good promotion, qualitly toys, and yes being on Nick has really helped.

I like the fact that it has everything in it. Not just lighthearted stuff but that it can get dark and gritty as well. Plus, all of the references to what came before hasn't hurt either. I love this show and hope that it sticks around for a long time. Don't get me wrong, I loved 2K3 and the CGI movie, but this show has a lot more to it, and that's what I like. Plus, the fighting scenes are awesome.

I really like the fact that the turtles actually act and look like teens in this show. Also love the amazing fight scenes in this show, along with the Japanese influcence, like the turtles and Splinter speaking Japanese, using chopsticks, etc.

Kinda cool how the Turtles and Splinter are a family... without having to call each other 'brother' and 'father' every few minutes.

I like how the turtles act more like brothers to each other than the other TV incarnations. The 87 series for example, I got more of a best friend feeling with they way they inceract with each other.

I also like how Splinter is written. To date, he's probably my favorite TV version. The way he talks and teaches the turtles, makes me feel like he's an actual Sensei. Not to mention little body gestures like walking with his hands behind him (which my Sifu does).

The martial art teachings that Spilnter says are also well written.

I like the family dynamics. This is my favorite version of Splinter as well.

The way he grounded his kids for making a mess and he knew they're sneaking out but he still waited for them to spit out what's happened in "I Think His Name Is Baxter Stockman" (he later retract the grounded part, but he still punished them) is really spot on how much of a stern but fair dad he was.

I like how Leo likes hanging out with Raph, how Mikey loves annoying everyone and how easily high strung and short tempered Don was with the shenanigans (Don's always been my favorite, but he was WAY too nice in 2K3). Actually, RAPH gave the impression he's the sane one among his brothers' quirkiness, and that's a refreshing view instead of "angry black sheep".

yeah I notice that. Between Leo's superhero antics, Don's technobabble nerdiness and Mikey being Mikey, Raph seems to be the one with the most common sense, despite his 'fight first ask later' attitude.

I can't think of any iteration of TMNT that has done this. In fact the turtles calling Splinter "father" started with the aforementioned CGI flick and was jumped on in BTTS which felt a bit odd since while the 2003 turtles clearly viewed him as their father they never referred to him as such prior to that season. The Nick turtles have done this more than any other iteration. Surely small things like this arn't the reason why the Nick show seems to be a bigger revival than past attempts?

I stand by the fact that a bigger company is behind it and thus gets bigger results.

Another reason I think is the growing presence of the internet and growing presence of blogs and social networking and specificaly sites dedicated to nerd culture. There's all manner of websites dedicated to promoting comic book related and sci fi and fantasy properties. Not many of these things were around back in '03 to feature the 4kids show. There were no websites reviewing it or posting info about upcoming episodes or hyping up characters that may appear. The new show had benefitted greatly from this in my opinion.

im just now watching the bulk of the 2k3 series and i feel like a lot of times it takes itself a lil too seriously and tries a bit too hard to be "cool". don't get me wrong, i absolutely love it, but it feels like it doesn't have the same confidence behind it that the nick series does. it feels like the nick show is perfectly comfortable being a tween show and can strafe the line between super-cute/kiddie and bad-ass/awesome with ease.

What on earth do you mean by, "same confidence?"

The 4kids series actually pushed the boundaries for what was allowed on Saturday mornings, some of the action (and death scenes) were something nobody expected the show to do. The series had actual impalement for goodness sakes. As well as the sense of continuity.

If only the 4kids series had better humor, which was what it lacked overall, it would have been even better.

Nickelodeon is a huge company that everyone watches, and they've got great voice actors under their wing. The 4Kids incanation never got this attention because KidsWB was not a widely known channel.

That has more to do with guts, though, which doesn't necessarily translate into confidence. Confidence in this context is the absolute belief that what one is doing will work, and I agree that this cartoon exhudes it in ways the 4kids toon did. For example, the first and second seasons of the 4Kids toon occasionally had parts where the turtles would recap what had gone before in very forced ways (these are separate from the opening narrations/recaps). These scenes were completely unecessary, and (to me, anyway) gave the impression that they'd been included out of fear that the viewers would not be able to follow the ongoing plot. More notably, the entire seventh season is lacking in confidence, which is why a lot of it was spent on a retread of previous plotlines.

The Nick cartoon, on the other hand, has a lot of confidence in what it's doing. In telling their version of their story, they've changed around a lot of things, and have gone about those changes in an unapologetic way. The show as it is drips with the belief that they really are making the best version of the turtles ever. Heck, it's the reason why I don't have any confidence that the show will become more enjoyable for me over time: if they have absolute confidence in their awesomeness, then there's no reason for them to ever change.

Gargoyles had the same recaps before most episodes. They would show clips from Season 1 episodes while we were in the end of Season 2 for example just
to remind people of something that happened 50 or so episodes ago.

As for the Nick show, what exactly did they change?

- Splinter being Hamato Yoshi again was something they knew would be accepted because its his original cartoon origin and what people are used to.

- The Turtles having new enemies/mutants, etc. is done in every incarnation, everyone knew there would be new characters. Some aren't well received like Spiderbitez while others are.

- The Kraang are basically evil versions of the Utroms.

- April being 16 was the major game changer, but everyone feels it worked out for the best because these Turtles act like real teens. Having April closer to their age has worked out wonderfully.

- Mike's nunchucks becoming a Kurisama is no big deal and is accepted.

- The alterations to the Turtles personalities is something that's done in every incarnation, but in essence they still have the same basic character archetypes they've always had.

You forgot one important thing: this series has more people who were fans growing up watching earlier series compared to the other versions, meaning that the staff actually can use some material to incorporate all of the Easter Eggs and twist off some earlier concepts into the show. 4kids didn't have this since the franchise was coming off of its dark period, as Turtles Forever shows with its misconceptions of the 1987 Turtles. However, on the flip side, it is facing much more competition than it ever did, with a mix of classic franchises either making a comeback or continue to sell (Power Rangers, Pokemon, Transformers, Spongebob, My Little Pony) along with newer brands (Kung Fu Panda, Cars) meaning that promotion is more important than ever to having success, and a large company like Nickelodeon proves that it can, with clues about the show in a much more diversified setting (Mall of America, Comic Con, the Toy Fair, Thanksigiving Parade) to maximize exposure. Let's hope this continues.

Gosh, it's like I didn't even say that the recaps I mentioned are not the ones from the opening. And yet there the distinction is, plain as day. I have no idea what happened to make you unable to see it, and hope it is not permanent.

As for what has changed besides the things you've mentioned...lessee: plotting, pacing, atmosphere, tone, message, aesthetics, text, subtext, metatext, and in general, anything having to do with the execution of the story--do those not count as "changes"? More importantly, do you truly believe that these do not inform what the writers believe, or that they do not have the ability to affect how the work is received by the audience? If that's the case, then congratulations!: I simply don't know just what to say to you.

But changes from what, exactly? Of course the show wasn't going to repeat the same exact plotlines from either the OT or 4kids series.

The changes they made has to do with the family dynamic between Splinter and the brothers and now April. That is from what I can tell the most well received part of the how thus far.

This is a character driven show, as most of the plots so far are simple and basic, but its the interaction between the cast and villains that makes it enjoyable. The OT worked this angle well too because that's why people can still enjoy the show as adults.

Yeah. I like that well-roundedness about it as well. It's a little bit of everything; 'serious' mixed in with 'old skool goofiness'. Perfect mix all around.

exactly what the big bad said. specifically,
its the way the nick crew is just balls-out going for it in their own way. i think its more esoteric than specific. you pointed out a lot particular details:
but what i was referring to was the vibe of the show in relation to its execution as whole and not in the details per se.

yeah, every incarnation is different, but to me, the 2k3 series seems like it feels absolutely beholden to honor the past and does it in such a heavy-handed way. its like they're saying, " hey! get this?? its a reference to this!" where as the nick show just kinda throws it in the background and lets it meld into the nick version of the story.

and dont get me wrong...i'm LOVING the 4kids show. it's great! but that doesnt change that the nick show just seems more comfortable and confident being what it is. and that might also be because they're 2 different types of shows. as i've mentioned (and i think is fairly obvious and accepted) the nick show's target demo is tweens, whereas the 4kids show was trying to be something a little darker, and "cooler" than that.

my point is that the current show is excelling at what its trying to do, where (IMO) the 4kids show stumbled a bit in trying to accomplish what it wanted.

You make a good point, esp about Turtles Forever. They totally made the 87 turtles way goofier than they really were. My oldest son, aged 8 1/2, watched that first (along with some of 2k3 so far), and swore up and down that he would hate the OT because of the goofiness. Leo is his favorite and he couldnt stand how Leo acted in Turtles Forever. I told him to give OT a chance and showed him some Leo-centric episodes, and that changed his tune! He still doesnt like OT as much as 2k12 or 2k3, but its ok :)

My Son (10) likes the 4kids and '12 series better than the OT also.. but he still likes them... His favorite turtle alternates between Raph and Mike.

oh wow really? I thought this whole time, ratings were on the rise, obviously somewhat of a decline from episode 1 to 2

I think the reason this series is so good is because they start off with better development. In the OT and 4Kids series, it's already established that Leo is the leader, while in this series he's actually shown being chosen to be leader. The Turtles are acting younger in this series than in 4Kids (as I always thought they seemed older than fifteen based on what they had to go through all the time), and they're still learning more about the surface and about themselves. I like how Nick has done that and has given the Turtles something different to work with rather than make them what they were before. It's just so cool.

As most people have said its a balance of gritty fighting scenes and humorous comedy, plus the focus on character interaction and development is what makes its appeal, just like the OT did, because it makes the characters more relatable.

In my opinion, the 2003 TMNT version was just...eh, okay...because the tone seemed too dedicated to prove itself as being "too cool" for the OT silliness. (Remember when 2003 Raph kept hitting Michelangelo before he could say "Cowabunga"?) I know the cartoon was supposed to reflect the Mirage comic more, but the 2003 version seemed too focused on being serious just to distinguish itself from the OT rather than establishing its own unique identity.

Since TMNT had now two different animated extremes of humor and seriousness, this 2012 CGI version had no where else to go but...in the middle somewhere just to make itself "different" from the other 2 previous versions.

One thing though you have to consider is that Nickelodeon, is FOR younger kids (5-9 years old) rather than the OT and 2003 version which could appeal to older kids up to 12 years old. In the 2003 version, the TMNT came across as young adults in their early 20s in both behavior and size (almost 'roided looking at times). In the OT version, the characters legitimately looked and acted like mid-teens (15-17 years old). In this Nick version, they seem more like "Tweenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" (around 10-13 years old) and since they are closer to their demographic its much more appealing.

Another aspect to consider is the size of the Nickelodeon channel itself promoting the show, its a powerful cable station unlike 4Kids CW which was a small network station, but it doesn't have the huge public audience like CBS/network syndication did (and FCC regulations) as with the OT. I don't think the appeal and success of this 2012 CGI version is a "surprise" to anyone since the TMNT brand has proven itself before in previous incarnations and movies unlike the OT which was COMPLETELY new/revolutionary to the general public (outside of the underground comic world) that made it so phenomenal.

What are you talking about? The 2003 series was meant to reflect the modern action cartoons as seen in the DC superhero shows, Gargoyles, etc. There's a reason its considered one of the best cartoons of the 2000's.

This I'll agree with.

It is? Because I thought it was ok, but not great.

it did have things in common with them, but i don't think it was as good as those...well, not as good as the DCAU at least...i havent watched Gargoyles in prolly over 15 years. (which is something i should rectify soon...)

is it really, though?

uh... no. The first season (at least) tried too hard to show off that 'this ain't the 80's toon', instead of just ignoring the past and doing its own thing. I kinda think the lurking in the shadows, actual martial arts fighting and Shredder being scary was more than enough without throwing in the 'stop saying Cowabunga!!!' bit.

I think once they started um... kinda/sorta adapting the Mirage comics storylines (Shredder Strikes Back/Return to New York) and became more of its own with Chrell, the Battle Nexus and so forth, it completely became its own entity and stopped focusing on 'being way more cool than the 80's' version.

IIRC Avatar the Last Airbender, Ben 10 (this one has the most toys available in my local toy store) and Justice League got the attention of the 2000 kids.

I don't know if this version of TMNT can compete with Adventure Time though.

i dont have cable...do adventure time and ninja turtles air in the same time-slot?

Are you joking? When it was airing for the first time it was critically acclaimed and put on the same level as the DC cartoons that were airing at the time.

Granted the show lost a bit of its quality in the last two seasons, but the show was considered excellent for the majority of its run.

I think other than not airing at the same time they're just two completely different shows.

Adventure Time is hitting on a bunch of levels right now. They got kids, teens, parents and the internet/hipster crowd. It's kind of amazing. We'll have to see if Turtles can catch up in terms of sheer awareness and popularity but they aren't in competition.

oddly enough, kids loved Fast Forward even though most of us fans hated it.

Most fans got over their hatred once they saw Season 5 though. The initial hate was just from Season 5 being skipped and the animation taking a hit.