Have the Nick TMNT actually accomplished anything?
 

I was thinking about this the other day. Seems like every bad guy and mutant they've ever encountered is still very much on the loose and at large. Perhaps the Nick Turtles should cut their losses and just stay in the sewer from now on?

Then there'd be no show, dummy.

Sure they have not captured any baddies.. But

They saved April
Stopped a Mutagen bomb
Saved people from becoming plant food
Saved Murakami
Stopped rats from taking over the city
stopped mousers from stealing things

and ate pizza.

That and I'd argue that they've actually tried pretty hard to put down Snakeweed for good, but that guy's apparently pretty hard to kill. Even breaking him into a thousand pieces didn't work.

I mean, they could always try stabbing that exposed heart but...kid's show. Can't realistically expect that level of violence in it (I've honestly been pretty pleasantly surprised by how violent they have gotten with that character).

Aren't they trying to build up to a league of villians kind of thing, if thats the case it's more fitting to have villians escape.

They stopped the Worldwide Genome project, stopped a mutagen bomb, and saved April from the Kraang.

But...they're kids. Splinter is still teaching them and they have a lot to learn. This is the youngest they've even been portrayed after all.

Aren't you usually the one who's against the idea of the Turtles being super heroes, Andrew?

This is why I prefer more mainstream super heroes like Superman or Spider-Man. They can be seen by the public and actually manage to put the badguys in jail, which happened a little back in the original Ninja Turtles cartoon. But on this show they're always going up against mutants and aliens but the public is always left in the dark.

Well, they're certainly not ninjas in the Nick show, so they might as well be something.

I think what you're trying to get at is that the status quo is nearly identical in every ep.

Funny, since they're doing a pretty good job of keeping in the shadows away from prying eyes, and are practicing actual (apparently anyway) martial arts katas in their training all the time...but then again, I'm getting the feeling you just wanted to gripe about the show here anyway.

That's actually why I prefer TMNT. Even in the OT they would hide and run as soon as the cops came and didn't want to be recognized by the general public.

Are you kidding me? How are they not ninjas? If you want to see turtles that aren't ninjas, go watch the OT.

Aww muffin. How are those sour grapes of yours tasting?

Exactly, they didn't care about not being seen, and didn't Leonardo go to a gym or fitness center in one episode:lol:

They pull their punches. "Non-killing ninjas" is an oxymoron. It's fine because it's a children's show and the entertainment factor as such is high... but let's call a spade a spade.

Why would I want to go and do something horrible like that?

Andrew I asked this as an honest question. What would you do if in charge? This a cartoon for kids. They can't kill everything they fight or else there would be no show. So tell me, what would you do to a kids show on a kids channel?

I believe this argument is more suited for the IDW turtles. They haven't accomplished much either and don't kill when they should.

At least the cartoons have the, "it's for kids" excuse.

My point is that every single threat they've encountered is still out there -- they resolve nothing. If somehow a threat was captured, or imprisoned, or their mutation reversed or something... but every time with everything from "Snakeweed" all the way to "Justin," it goes down exactly the same way: big fight, the Turtles win, and the bad guy escapes into the shadows.

Why even bother then, right?

Hm... you do have a point there.

Well what exactly do you expect them to do about it?

What do you mean? I offered up 3 possibilities in my last post.

Odd thought -- from playing Batman: Arkham Asylum, I'm remembering the Killer Croc sewer lair where he was kept captive. It might not be too unreasonable for the Nick Turtles -- somewhat in that vein -- to make a bunch of holding cells for evildoing mutants somewhere deep in the sewers.

Mikey did try to cut that Kraangdroid in the alley thinking he was human. And they probably would have killed Shredder if they could have.

Other than The Kraang and the Foot, none of their enemies really deserve to die. At least I don't think so.

Hey, that's my job!!

The jabs at the super-serious Andrew...not eating sour grapes...

There was those "cells" they were in during that mini web motion comic thing, sounds reasonable. Or they get some ally that can do something with them, cause after all they're teenagers.

-ms

I may have missed something but...has any character on the show said they pull their punches or that they don't kill?

Pretty sure the turtles have tried to kill Snakeweed and were he any other character would be dead however he's pretty unique in that he can survive a lot of punishment.

The only time the turtles have made a point of this is choosing not to kill a defensless Bradford in cold blood. If I remember correctly later on in that same episode one of the turtles kicks a Foot Ninja off the roof, the same fall they believed would kill Bradford. Obviously how said Foot Ninja lands is handled offscreen so we don't know if he survived, was hurt or landed on his feet but the intent for the turtles to kill is still there. They simply didn't want to kill in cold blood - a decision the Mirage turtles have taken more than once.

Most fictional vigilantes/heroes/crime fighters/adventurers don't achieve much when it comes down to it. They may send the bad guy to jail but he escape, they may kill the other bad guy but he gets ressurected by worms.

There's your problem. That game is better off forgotten.

Andrew is way too nitpicky, but I admit I don't see much point to villains getting away when they're essentially forgotten after the first episode they appear and are defeated. If it was Shredder always getting away, that would be different, because he's supposed to be tough, and obviously he's going to keep coming back. Yet if a villain is just introduced for a filler episode, then why not have him stay down? It would be somewhat sensible if the Turtles at least tied up a villain and left him for the cops subtly; he could escape later if they ever need him. Shell; even in the Fred Wolf show, they did that with Baxter Stockman.

For what it's worth, the shying away from killing isn't total in this show. As mentioned, the Turtles tried to kill Snakeweed, and I'm pretty sure Leatherhead actually did kill those Kraang.

Andrew is not too "nitpicky," he's basically a Mirage purist who is going to hold a very high standard for anything that isn't black and white Mirage TMNT. While I don't always agree with his opinions, he does have a right to them.

Indeed, but he knows good and well the cartoons are for children.

His complaints are valid for IDW TMNT though, because those are supposed to be aimed at adults and don't have to censor themselves for kids.

Having a right to one's opinions doesn't mean someone should teabag people with them, and that is exactly what posting his completely alien standards in a place that obviously doesn't share them qualifies as. He's just as obnoxious as the Fred Wolf purists, though granted a great deal smarter.

Sorry, but bringing up a "They're not ninjas because they don't kill people" point with regard to a show that can't help that is completely stupid. Venting about how a cartoon can't be violent when if it did, it wouldn't be made, is completely stupid. Here's what Andrew and other Mirage purists seem unable to realize; the Mirage books were indie for a reason: Because overall, most adults would not buy into a series with this title; regardless of what its plot was like. You can put in character development, put in violence, try to be serious or at least, darkly comical, but the majority of the world is just going to regard it as a huge joke. Why do you think a lot of society is still ignorant enough to refer to any story told through sequential images as "comics," despite that they can convey far more types of stories than just simple, episodic humor? Because they don't recognize that this medium can do that. I'm not saying I don't resent that; I do immensely. I all-but refuse to use the word "comic" when describing graphic novels. Yet I have enough sense and objectivity to hate the game rather than the players.

Here's the options you're stuck with when you make something called Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles:
1) Target a small amount of adults, in which case you'll do okay, no matter the subject.
2) Target a mass of children, and you'll probably do well, though your amount of freedom will be limited.
3) Target adults nostalgic for their childhood, in which case you can do adult stuff, so long as you call back to that childhood.

I don't know that Fred Wolf purists are more obnoxious than Mirage purists, that's a bit of a generalization. Both have the capacity to be obnoxious. I've RARELY felt this way about Andrew, though.

I wouldn't say his standards are completely "alien." That's ridiculous. They're bound to be rare on a forum that was created to CELEBRATE the Fred Wolf cartoon, but for some people, it is hard to celebrate the Mirage comics without in some way bashing the Fred Wolf series. Like it or not, the Fred Wolf series DID butcher the Mirage series. A LOT. And now we've got all of these weird "hybrid" series that use elements from both.

No; the Fred Wolf show divulged. It had no choice but to become tamer; it was a very conservative decade and the ability to convey violence would always be checked, but give the show credit for at least taking shots at its own stupidity in a way most 1980s shows never did, and trying to become its own fun thing. Also, this show doesn't fall nearly as hard into that pit.

You know who "butchered" the Mirage series? Mirage purist numero uno himself, Peter Laird. Thanks to his ridiculous my-way-or-the-highway philosophy, he resolved to sell the license without telling anyone else at Mirage, meaning that unless he ever gets off his ass, the Mirage series is dead. Meanwhile, IDW, while writing a series that paid homage to the Fred Wolf series, also was nice enough to republish the Mirage series and give it a wider distribution than ever before. The Nick show also keeps its references to the past very even between the Fred Wolf and Mirage series So who are really the bigger villains here?

No joke; purists of anything can suck me, and if I ran this forum I'd ban every single one of them.

I guess you missed that episode where they simultaneously discovered the cure for the common cold AND cancer. It was nothing special though.

well if they killed everyone....then there would be no villains....then they'd have to make more villains...and it's not like mutagen falls from the sky :ohwell:

and they can't capture anyone...cause that give away their lair right :-?.......

But Batman has connections with the police, the Turtles don't have that. Who's gonna keep eye on said mutants when they're a group of six individuals, five of them kids and would most likely be the sidekicks if they're in the DC universe?

Hey, I enjoy the show and watch it all the time with my daughter. I'm just saying... maybe these Nick TMNT should probably consider hanging up their weapons if the bad guys are always just scurrying off none the worse for wear after every single encounter.

There's that, and the simple fact of... even if the police take who the Turtles give them into custody, who would take the stand as witnesses? What evidence would be lobbied against the bad guys? How would the case not be thrown out?

Which is why I've always hated the Batman stories where Batman just deposits a mugger or whatever with a little note next to a police station. It's cool, it's dramatic... but how would that not be laughed out of court?

Do the Turtles really have to track them down and kill them though? Sounds like you want the Turtles to figuratively, "put a bullet in the head" of all their enemies after their first encounter.

The same thing can be said about you. "It's a kid's cartoon" can only be said to you so many times, so maybe you should consider unplugging your keyboard.

Read earlier in the thread. I suggested many alternatives, none of which included killing.

But that response is only given when folks mistake my conversational questions about the show (or other incarnations) as both some kind of inability to identify the show for what it is/who it's for and some kind of innate bloodthirst for Mirage caliber storytelling or something. It's hardly my fault that people keep getting it twisted, but it is my fault if I let it proliferate without jumping in to correct. If it sounds like a mantra, it's because it's generally the same people jumping to the same conclusions, over and over again.

I think they could probably do a little more to stop the villains. Best way I can think of is have Donnie find a way to reverse the mutations, that way it ends with them being unmutated. The cops don't have to be dealt with and they can avoid killing to keep it kid friendly.

Never really got the problem with killing in kids cartoons though. I remember watching Dragonball Z as a kid and they killed all the time in it, in really violent ways. I just thought it was awesome, but whatever.