Donatello as Leader
 

I don't know if anyone has addressed this, but here goes. I think this show would have been slighty better, and/or different if Donatello was the leader. He has shown himself worthy in a couple of instances, and he seems pretty skilled with his staff. Especially since the show didn't really give a "reason" as Leonardo is the leader beyond him asking to be, if I remember correctly.

One example would be the second fight with snake weed. He held him off long enough, for him, Raph, and Mikey to escape. I think this would have been a cool shake-up. However the crush on April might get in the way of his responsibilities, but this could have been an issue he could have learned to deal with along with his leadership role.

Also I was wondering why Donatello has the crush on April by himself? Would it have been more fun if all the brothers had a crush on April?:tsmile:

No. No it wouldn't because then she appear more of a Mary Sue.:x

The only series where Donatello could have been the leader was the original cartoon. In that series he pretty much told all the other Turtles what to do most of the time.

maybe..but he gets pushed around alot in this series XD....

I remember when Raph was the leader and he made Donnie work faster by threatening to punch him XDD

and he is great with the bo....but he's arguably the weakest turtle (physically)

he's the smartest though~ :)

Well in the mirage, he was consider second in command and when Leo was unconscious during the ambush of the gift shop, he was giving out orders.

i think its kind of an unspoken thing that don would generally be the leader if leos not present

Why should Donnie be the leader? Leo's proven himself plenty of times that's he's a great leader.

I agree :3 Leo is a great leader

he works well under pressure
is both smart and strong

and he has the katana so that makes him the leader :D

^ This, and he sacrificed himself twice to save his brothers. I don't think Donnie would do something like that.

Also, no, it would not be fun to see all 4 turtles crushing on April.

it's barely bearable when just one of them is crushing.... :|

I've always seen Donnie as the #2 Turtle...like Cubded said, in the FW series, Donnie was always saving the day...WITH SCIENCE!!

isnt he the second oldest too?

in 2012?

Donnie is the second youngest :3

Raph is the second oldest

In IDW he is the 2nd oldest.

I'm pretty sure they would ALL do this if required of them, not just Leo :ohwell:

As much as I'd love for Donnie to be the leader, I really can't imagine it not being Leo's role.

i read multiple places that one of the creators said donnie was the second oldest, then raph, and i like to see it that way

Aren't they all 15 in the Nick cartoon?

If we're talking about Don in IDW, then yes. He's very opinionated and questions Leo's logic a LOT in the comic (even arguing with him! Which surprised me since that was Raph's thing. I love it!). Plus he has the knowledge know how, and that's always best in decision makings - to have all the information as much as you can.

Either way, Don in Nick is capable as well from what I see.

I doubt Don would want that burden once he learns how it can be. We saw this with Raph and how he learned exactly how much pressure it is to be the leader. I'm not saying he would be a horrible leader, but I don't think he'd really want it. He's content just doing his own thing.

And, no, I don't want all of the Turtles to crush on April because that would just be horrible.

I may be the only one who may disagree. Despite Donnie's brillaint mind, he wouldn't make a good leader (as of now). He's easily irritable, has a compulsive need to over-explain things, and at times can be too focused to notice things around him. He likes to overplan, which leaves him vulnerable if things go wrong. He doesn't possess Leo's strategic mind or his ability to improv when plans sour (and the ability to keep cool and focused while doing so). In time, he can be leadership material, but as of now, his speciality is science, not battle tactics.

When you take into account that Donnie has dealt with keeping April safe personally on multiple occassions, promising to save her dad, failing to keep his responsibility to keep Timothy safe and resulted his humanity lost, his creation nearly killing his brothers (Metalhead); one could make the case that Donnie in the show has dealt with more burdens than Leo so far.

I actually agree with all of this, in this series, anyway. I think as he matures he could become a good 2nd in command as he tends to be in other versions, but right now in the Nick series, he hasn't reached that point yet. I actually like it that way, though, as it gives him a lot of room to grow, and I look forward to seeing that possibly happen down the line.

And as for the idea of all the Turtles having a crush on April... I don't think it's possible for me to say "Thank you GOD!" that it didn't happen loud enough.

Not many are natural leaders but with exposure and experience, Don can be an excellent one in no time. Definitely.

Could see that as an awesome season 2 episode.

Lets say if Leo went dark. Who would be next in line on command? My vote is Don.

I vote Raph. They ALL need to learn how to step it up and take leadership in some way or another, but of the four, Don always seems like the type who likes the 'idea' of leadership, but when it comes right down to it, wouldn't want the actual realities of it. Don is excellent as a leader for one turtle and one turtle only, himself. If he alone is stuck in a sticky situation, he can more than likely get himself out of it. But when it comes to taking control of his three brother's lives, I do think ultimately the pressure is too much for him. Raph on the other hand lives to put his brothers before himself (not to say Don is more selfish than Raph, he's just always done his own thing which translates to not really being entirely aware as to how his bros function as a team), and I think with some proper training he would have the better know how in commanding them.

Unfortunately, Raph never seems to get this training and thus allows his emotions to rule, which is why I think Don is always forced to step in for him to pick up the slack, even if he would rather not to. They make a good leadership team to say the least.

Dont think Don would be cut out as leader to busy tinkering with his gadgets plus would also be busy trying to fig out all the mechanical stuff when they are on missions to make any clear decisions.

As Raph is (seemingly) the second oldest, I think it's fair for him to take the leadership helm too. But the way he handled it when facing Snakeweed (in Leo's absence) prooved disastrous. He panicked and left the team immobilized. I feel if given the chance, perhaps Don could do better - he seemed to be cool headed and in control, which is essential in any leadership.

I think initially Donnie wanted to be leader because as the smartest member of the team and is able to think his way out of situations. But much like Raph when faced with overloading pressure he is more likely to get an anxiety attack then actually figure a way out of their situation.

Raph wanted to be leader because he saw leadership as getting his way all the time. While over the months of watching Leonardo lead by example Donnie has been gradually beginning to grasp that there are more to carry with leadership, then just having people follow your orders.

Because of this Donnie has helped Leo carry the mantle of leadership by questioning the accuracy or safety of a plan, making sure a plan is carried out. And if needed temporarily slips into a leadership role to ensure the safety of the team and prevent un-needed sacrifices.

Leo has of sorts come to recognize and value Donnie's skills as a tactician which is why they are shown having a strategy meeting in the finally. And it also begins to show that 2012 Donatello is fill a second in command role.

Doesn't mean one can't be older than another. They could all be separated by 3 months.

It would be interesting, but I still think Leo is the perfect leader. He's clearly the most well rounded of the Bros. having a even amount of brains & brawn.

Don may be smart, but He is clearly the least psychically talented of his bros.

The only thing I remember about this, is in that interactive Comic thing that was on the TMNT website before the show started airing, in which Splinter introduced Leo as the oldest, Raph as his "second son", and Don as his "third". Mike being the youngest.

But the first episode starts off with their celebrating their "mutation" day, so I don't think that they're age is as important to them as the day they mutated.

But Splinter did choose randomly who was to be the leader randomly.
Leo asked first, but I think Splinter saw potential in all of them. (Except Mikey?)

I don't think Don would be fit as leader though.
But he is clearly willing to take action when it is needed.

I just don't see Donnie stepping up to the leader position, in this series anyway. He's smart and I'm sure he can be tactical, but leading? No. I think if push really came to shove Raph would step up but if Leo is there, no one else should lead. His whole personality is based around his ability to lead and no one is as fit for the job.

Yeah, I've gotta say that in this series, I think Raph would be the 2nd in command at the moment. Sure he wasn't too good at it in New Girl in Town, but think about the circumstances. Raph hadn't given any thought to what being in a leadership role meant because he was too focused on proving that he was capable - he was viewing it as a competition: "Leo can do it, so I want to do it better". I think that if for whatever reason Leo was unable to lead now, Raph would be able to step up and take charge - even if he "hates" it - thanks in part to that experience.

At this point in time Raph just seems to have more leadership qualities than Donnie. Donnie gets frazzled easily, over thinks things, and gets distracted frequently, but he has shown that he does possess leadership qualities as well (like at the end of Pulverizer Returns). So yeah, in my mind right now, I could more easily see Raph stepping in as leader if he had to, but I could see a more mature Donnie doing that in the future as well.

I think it's a little wrong to even have 1 romance between animal and human running in the show.
Didn't they do an episode in the OT where they were all competing for April's affection?
I think this would be problematic in the long run... not the "playful banter" you may imagine with 4 bothers competing for the affection of the same girl.

I think Don would be the most obvious in the Nick series... and even in IDW.
Raph is too compulsive and Don is too.... brainy. Raph is typically the one the runs in without a plan. I think Don can stratigize but he can OVER stratigize too... like his flow chart to ask out April.

And I wouldn't say he's the weakest. Raph is the strongest for sure. Don may not work out like Raph does, 'cus he tinkers with SCIENCE!!
But to use the staff, you need a certain amount of force to crack the staff. If we follow how he SHOULD be using his weapon, he should be up there.
This portrayal of Mikey is probably the weakest. I think in 2003 they built him to be the strongest Turtle, which was an interesting turn.

Don and Mike are generally the ones comfortable with not leading. Raph is always combating Leo except in the OT.
IDW Don is cocky, which is very interesting trait we didn't see before. But I dont think IDW Don is one looking to lead either.

I was going to point this out as well...
IF Don was chosen to be leader or became Leo's second, he could learn to be leader. We are shown that Leo watches that Star Trek-type cartoon and models himself off the heroic leader in the show. Outside of that, Leo is and always will be the leader with the best personality to lead his brothers.

Because "That would be wrong" if I remember correctly.
I do believe in the Nick incarnation that Mikey is not at all fit to lead. Atleast in previous shows he MIGHT have maybe been able to do something but he's usually to laid back to lead.

do you mean weakest as in the weakest on the team? or the weakest Mikey??

cause either way I don't agree :D

Mikey's biggest flaw is that he doesn't focus enough.....he's too dependent on his brothers and he's fine with that. (that's why he doesn't care about being the leader)

but Mikey also has the most potential to be an awesome ninja. he learned Bradford's kata and used it against him, he totally pulled one over on Shredder with his kusarigama, and he dodged Splinter's attacks without even looking XD and he's creative (using pizza and bees to help defeat Baxter )

Donnie is definitely smarter but I think Mikey would beat Don in a fight. (if it was just hand to hand)
(but this is my opinion ^_^)

He did anyway ;)
Don over thought his moves and Mikey evaded and, I think, knocked him back.

And ya, you need a certain amount of force for the 'chucks too... those things are NASTY if you're the one being hit.

But, as I said, Mikey is laid back and in the Nick version he acts younger or more childish. He is artistically/abstract creative while Don is creative in facts and things that work and are applicable.
But I'm in no way dissing one Turtle over another, just in terms of "who would be a good leader if Leo were gone".

I LOVE Mikey....and even I know he would never be leader XD.....(unless he's forced too)

he's too childish and carefree.

between Raph and Don....I want to say Raph....slightly because I feel Donnie seems too special....(he can make anything, he's smart, he can be a quick thinker, and of course he's a ninja)

I feel if anyone should take Leo's place Raph should be given the second chance.