Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel
 

Yeah, I'm making a thread about it. So what?

I love this sh*t. I brush my teeth to it.

I love Buffy the Vampire Slayer. After watching the first episode, I was hooked. Haven't gotten around to Angel yet, but I probably will after finishing Buffy.

I like that new show The Crazy Ones with Sarah Michelle Gellar. My wife and I can never remember her name in the show so we just call her Buffy.

Buffy was only good for the first 5 seasons. The last two seasons ranged from average to terrible, with the only redeeming episodes being the musical and the Dark Willow stuff.

Season 6 was pretty awful for the most part, and by Season 7 it felt the show had run its course.

Looking back at it now though I hate what they did to the majority of the characters. Xander became a loser, Willow turned lesbian, Giles became useless, Cordelia became some sort of god and then died (wtf?) during Angel, and the side characters like Oz, Riley, Anya, Tara, etc. were all either killed off and became throwaway.

Man, I love Buffy and Angel! I was nothing short of obsessed back in the day. I have almost as much Buffy stuff as I do tmnt.

Cubed, Xander did not become a loser, he was a hero! Giles lost the will, and who wouldn't surrounded by that much death? So what if Willow was gay, I really liked how her relationship with Tara developed. I was really upset when Anya died, I'd really gotten to like her and her strange/blunt/hilarious ways. I'll grant you the Cordelia becoming a god etc was a bit odd and her being written out could have happened better.

I'll spoiler this bit so I don't ruin it for Turtle Titan, but TT Angel is well worth a watch.


In fact I guess it's partly the balance of heartbreak and bittersweet triumph which kept me so addicted to the shows.

Xander abandons Anya on the wedding day, and spends most of Season 7 not really doing much of anything. Xander was my favorite character at the beginning of the series, I couldn't stand how they handled him.

Willow being lesbian wasn't the problem, its that both Tara and Kennedy were boring characters. Willow getting over Tara's death so fast was disgusting.

I hated what happened to Cordelia. Once we hit Season 3 of Angel the writers had no clue what to do with her anymore.

I love Season 6. Maybe because when I watched it I was going through alot of sh*t, but it hit all the right notes for me. But I can see why its so divided. Alot of the fun was sucked out of the show since each character's arc were going to darker and darker places. Which I have to assume is why they had The Trio be the season long threat, to balance out the seriousness the Scoobies were all going through. And it ended with such a sweet note, having mere words bring down the ultimate force of evil. Loved it.

Season 7 is pretty much universally known as the weakest one. The ending was good, but getting there was a pretty stale journey.

There's alot to love in both shows.

Season 1 of Angel had a hard time finding its footing in my opinion. I rarely rewatch it. So sad it was cancelled right when it felt the show was getting into setting up a fresh start with things. And the possibilities of the Spike/Angel rivalry could have been amazing. But ah well.

Also, Lorne is pretty much the greatest character ever to grace television :D

Tara was sweet and naive, she was very much a reflection of Willow in season 1 but I agree with you about Kennedy.

Willow didn't get over Tara quickly, she went on the magic bender to end all magic benders and almost destroyed the world with her pain. She was sent away for a while and even when she returned she still loved Tara. When the first spoke through Cassie as 'Tara' to Willow that was obvious.

Oh my gosh, I love Lorne! Now he was great, added some often needed light to a dark show. Ha, those fabulous suits.

I love all things Buffy, even the horribly butchered original movie.

They continued Buffy in comic form with Seasons 8 and 9.

Everything I've heard about the Buffy comics makes me want to stay away though. Sounds like a bunch of terrible storylines with the worst being Xander and Dawn becoming a couple. Good god.

Yeah, i started reading it but bailed. It just didn't feel like Buffy in the least bit. Dawn even became a Centaur for a bit.

Let that sink in.

LOL. Didn't Giles also die in the comics? I think I remember reading that somewhere.

What also bothers me is it takes place after the Angel series ended too, so it basically says Angel, Spike and Fred survive the end of Season 5 of that show.

I love these shows, just finished angel season 1, such a shame about Doyle:cry:

Great shows, love em both! Glad I can relive all my fave eps on Netflix whenever I want

I'm currently watching through Buffy and Angel for the first time ever. I've finished the first 4 Seasons of Buffy and Season 1 of Angel (I found a really nifty guide online that tells you which order to watch the episodes in).

They're both such good shows, it's ridiculously hard to pick favorite characters. Faith, Buffy, Angel, Xander, Doyle and Spike are all such amazing characters (I too am so bummed about them killing off Doyle, he had so much potential).

After reading that they nearly did a Faith spin off and that it never materialized I'm really disappointed as she could have definitely carried a show. A lot of the episodes that have her in have been some of the best that I've seen. Generally speaking the best run of episodes has been Season 3 of Buffy, and I think a lot of that is in part thanks to Faith. The overall story with the mayor, having the Scooby's consisting of Buffy, Xander, Giles, Angel, Cordy, Oz and for a while Faith was really cool (but man is Willow annoying). Though it's quite hard to top the first 9 episodes of Angel.

So far, my favorite episodes have been "The Zeppo" from Buffy and "I Will Remember You" from Angel (that ending).

I wish they'd been able to follow through with Doyle and bring him back as a big bad in a later season (which they had planned to do until Glenn Quinn died :( ).

Yeah, I was bummed out about Doyle leaving too, as he was the best part of season 1 in my opinion. And being replaced by Wesley was a bit "ugh, really?". But give it time. Wesley slowly became the best part of the show. His transition from goofy comedic relief to broken down badass was a joy to see. Fred's also a big plus; just don't judge her on her first(rather annoying) few appearances.

Wesley was one of the best characters of the show. Amazing how they changed his character so much.

In real life Alysson Hannigan and Wesley got married and had two kids together.

Wesley annoyed me allot on that show

I didn't like Wes when he was on Buffy, but he's really grown on me so far. I think the team would have been awesome with Angel, Cordy, Wes and Doyle. I'm not that keen on Gunn so far though. I don't hate him but he seems like a weird addition to the group.

I don't know who Fred is (yet). I've already taking a distinct dislike towards Lorne though.

It would have been a good idea to have revived Doyle at the end of Season 1 as an evil guy instead of Darla.

You do realize the actor who played Doyle died while the show was till airing, right? I can't remember the exact year it was, but he died only a year or two after he left the show.

Yes I'm aware that he died. But it was during Season 4.

Whaaaaaat?! How can you dislike Lorne? I think his addition alone was responsible for fixing the tone of the series to where it needed to be to really shine.

Very sad, didn't even know that. According to Wikipedia he died of an "accidental" heroin overdose

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Quinn

Also very sad was that Andy Hallett who played Lorne passed away a few years ago, poor guy.

Who are your least favorite characters?

I always thought Riley sucked, and Tara was a bit boring at the start until Season 5. Kennedy was an absolutely terrible replacement.

I also never saw Gun as anything more than the token black guy on the show. It's like they felt they suddenly needed to introduce a black character and it stuck.

That's a tough question, I guess Riley was always one of my least favourite characters and I'm sure that had nothing to do with him replacing Angel as Buffy's love interest... ;)

Eve got on my nerves quite a bit but I ended up feeling sorry for her, oh and Connor, never really thought much to him even though the idea of his character was good.

I liked Lorne on Angel, and of course when Spike came onto both of the shows, that made things interesting. Allot of the minor characters I remember hating, like Gun, couldn't get behind him. Loved Oz and Xander allot. Anya was cool. Near the end of Buffy's run, I kinda hated the whole "Scoobies" thing

I think Gunn was my least fav, he seemed to be a little pointless, would rather they worked Doyle back in some how, even if they had made him a evil to start with and turned him good again.

Such a shame the actor died, because it sounds like they were gonna do that around season 4.

I thought Gunn and Angel didn't gel, where as Angel and Doyle felt like Batman and Robin:lol:

my buffyverse fandom rivals that of my tmnt fandom. (and honestly, i like angel in that regard more than buffy, but they're still both great shows!) in fact, the first internet forum i ever joined was the wb angel forum waaay back in the day.

say what you will about character arcs and storylines...its true that a few plots seemed to get outta control throughout the show, but you can't deny that the way tv shows are now written, paced and executed is a result of what joss whedon and co did with these two shows.

spuffy 4 life!

I just hate it that every relationship on the show was broken up at some point. It got so predictable where you couldn't care for a couple because you knew they would break up a season later.

I think that killing doyle off was just such a big mistake. he brought out this great feeling within the group, he made cordelia relevant and he was Angel's sidekick. He was almost like a glue, and the group just doensn't feel the same without him there. Like said above, Gunn just feels like he's been brought in so they had a black guy there. There was enough room for Wesley, Cordy, Angel and Doyle (and whoever they introduce in the future).

Episodes like the one where cordelia got pregnant would have been so interesting to have seen what doyle would have brought to the episode. Like if he never really got with her, but stayed on the brink of it to keep the audience thinking whether or not it would happen. From what I read, the actress who plays cordelia's mother was really annoyed when they killed him off lol.

Cordelia's mother appeared in the show? I don't remember that happening.

I don't recall that either, do you mean Cordelia's daughter Jasmine, Blue Turtle? She was an interesting character, those were some creepy episodes!

Speaking of creepy episodes, the Angel one 'Hell Bound' freaked me out! It was that guy in the basement *shudders*.

Some of the writing in the later episodes of Buffy and Angel were terrible to be honest. It felt at one point they finally ran out of ideas so they looked for as many ways to screw up the main characters as possible.

I really don't like what happened to the majority of the main cast as the show progressed. It ruins their characters for me even when I rewatch the beginning seasons because I know what they become.

No, I mean the real life mother of the actress of Cordelia, said the show was stupid for killing Doyle off.

Cordelia, or Charisma Carpenter, was extremely hot back in the 90's. Hard to believe she was like 30 years old while playing a High School student in the first 3 seasons.

Ahh, my bad :D apologies.

I kinda agree with you, but I also feel like each relationship felt justified in how it ended. I never went "Ugh, this is just for dramas sake."
I never cared for Angel, but I can see his reasoning for leaving her.
Spike and Buffy should never be a full-time thing anyways.
Willow and Oz was handled as well as it could have when an actor decides to leave the show. And I loved the episode when he comes back.
Tara and Willow never really broke up at the end.
Willow and Xander were never official to begin with.
Giles and Ms. Calendar never broke up.
Buffy + Riley... I just feel so indifferent towards that I cant form an opinion.


Okay, maaaaybe Anya+Xander, but still, can be argued that Xander was just too immature to get married yet(something that was more or less proven the episode of the wedding itself).

You forgot Xander/Cordelia...but it was bound to happen since she was leaving the show at the end of that season anyway.

I was only in middle school when Season 2 was airing, back then Xander/Cordelia was like my fantasy for myself in 8th grade...lol.

So, now that Disney acquired Buffy in the Fox deal, I'm willing to bet that we're going to hear about a new Buffy series to go on their streaming service sooner than later (once the deal finalizes.)

I'm going to bet it's an animated series, kind of a reboot of sorts. It'll feature all the main characters and will be set in highschool again, but the creatures and such would be a little more "out there" than the TV series.

Basically, it'll be like that animated pilot that didn't get picked up years ago, only with crappier animation.


But yeah, they'll definitely do something with the franchise. It's had surprisingly strong staying power, no doubt in part of it being on Netflix for a younger audience to find.

What do you think they'll end up doing? Animation? Reboot? Spin-off? SUBVERT EXPECTATIONS and launch a MALE reboot, Buddy the Vampire Slayer!? :o