Opinions on April and Karai?
 

So how do you guys feel about this incarnation of April and Karai?

I know I'll probably get a lot of hate for this.... But I honestly don't really care much for this version of April. :ohwell:

She just come across as so bland to me and I can't really put my finger on as to why...
I like the fact that she's training to be a ninja and I hope her empath powers are explored more but....other then that it just feels like she's just there...

Outside of Donatello she doesn't really interact with the other Turtles and any time she gets an episode to herself, it seems like Donatello's crush just HAS to come to the forefront and focus on that rather than the character herself...

I only hope that changes when the episodes return.

Karai on the other hand is the complete opposite for me.
I never found her interesting in ANY other incarnation but in this show they really helped her character for me. In fact, this show just might have made her become the MOST interesting character for me.

Her plot with Shedder and Splinter is easily one of the biggest highlights in this show for me! She becomes by far a very sympathic character for me as a result of it. Her loyalty to the Shedder is a bit more downplayed. And the fact that she's also hilarious with her danpan snarks helps too.

Well that's just my opinion anyways. So what do you think of them?

That's pretty much how I feel about April too. I like that they're trying to give her character but, eh, it's just not coming across too well with me. Karai though, I like her even though this is my first exposure to her. The fact that she's Splinter's daughter and that Shredder has turned her against him...it's great. Don't care much for the bits with her and Leo and Leo having a crush on her but I can understand it more then the Donnie and April stuff.

Agree with April, however I don't care if she was even on the show. the show is so rich with every OTHER character. April is kinda there, but with the recent edition of Casey jones her parts a little more important.

I honestly wouldn't mind if April left the show (I know that's harsh) but......every time she shows up she just ends up frustrating me with her lack of emotions, her lack of interaction with the other 3 turtles, and just Donnie's crush in general.

in fact anything having to do with April is either about Donnie.....or the Kraang.
(or recently Casey, I guess anything with love)

it's like she can't be there just to be there.....she can't goof off or have fun..or help the turtles with something that isn't about HER.

I think Never say Xever was the best portrayal of April so far....she talked to the other turtles like Raph...and even helped out Mikey when he was in trouble. and what's best about that episode?? IT WASN'T ABOUT HER!

anyways...XD....Karai is cool, she's completely the opposite of April.

(hoping Irma is better)

The less of April, the better. I never cared for her in any incarnation, though. Karai is whatever.

I don't particularly care for either of them in this show, which is a huge shame to me as I've always liked both of them and I'm sad two of the rare female characters that I've come to really like have been reduced to this. April I could rant about for days so I won't even touch that subject, but Karai I still have a tiny glimmer of hope left in me that she can redeem herself and become an actually interesting character. I know they're going for this whole 'too-cool punk' sort of vibe for her, but honestly half the time she just comes off as extremely spoiled and rude and it makes it really difficult to have any empathy for her. Still, I haven't seen enough of her yet to write her off completely (and it doesn't hurt that Leo seems to have gotten over his moronic crush on her relatively quickly), so I'll give her a few more chances. April on the other hand....well, I still pretend the REAL April is out there somewhere and this boring, Mary-Sue imposter won't stick around forever.

How do you get through the TMNT franchise without the one human element the Turtles/Splinter are always exposed to?

To be honest I like this April better than that kidnap all the time version in the first toon much as I love the old toon

Karai is pretty interesting that I will say my favourite on Shredder's side

well if they aren't gonna make her interesting then they might as well take her out and replace her with someone better. Casey...Irma...I don't care.

I don't REALLY want to take her out though...I just want her to get better. The idea of a teen April sounded so good.......but man....it was just done wrong.

2003 April was the best for me T^T.....smart, caring, helpful.

April herself is fine, its just Donnie's crush that should be toned down.

I'm hoping by the time Season 3 hits they can move on from that.

I agree that this Karai has more personality than before, I like her quite a bit. Never really had any use for her character before... Still not a big fan of her hair and make up, though.

April, on the other hand, I don't think she's any more bland than past Aprils. The character on a whole has never gotten all that much characterization, except maybe in the Mirage books, but it took 25 years to get her to a point of being well fleshed out. Ciro's April is my favorite by far, both in design & personality. She's smart, funny, got a chip on her shoulder, & has some cute moments too. The fact she's a teen is lending itself well to growth. We can watch her learn and come into her own alongside the turtles. Plus she's not a damsel in distress, which is nice. Just hope they don't end up making a Mary Sue of her, either.

Except for the episode where she was. But whatever. It works.

With April, yes I think they need to expand on her more. Thankfully with the Trailer for the new episodes coming up we do see some interaction with Leo. The main problem with her and Donnie as a couple is Donnie is always the first one there, so the others don't really have a chance to talk or interact with her.

It would be good if she did have a talk to the others about Donnie's feelings for her. I understand they want to have the April torn between two lovers angle for a while, but she also has to come to a decision between them. And admittedly she doesn't want to continue leading one on and hurt the other. Part of the recent trailer did suggest that Donnie is going to be taken out of the picture. So unless that's a part of a Fungus induced nightmare, April may have the chance to interact with the other turtles, even its just to keep up the hope that their brother will be returned to them.

I'm pretty sure that's the nightmare. It looks so much like Kirby bat.
and I'm kinda hoping it's Donnie's nightmare.....just to separate April and Donnie's connection a little. It's like everything has to be about them. (like they have to be connected by the hip or something)

the others will probably have fears like failure and losing family...or being alone without family.

I would like Don's fears to be something more personal and not completely about April (like losing her.)

maybe something like failing to find a cure for the mutation or something. (not being smart enough and all that)

Except that the Kraang are wanting to kidnap Nick April all the time, ever since the very first episode! The Nick show has selective amnesia with this arc. For example, the time when April runs away from the Turtles in "The Mutation Situation" her character completely forgets the constant threat of the Kraang (by comfortably attending school again in the subsequent episodes), thus diminishing the dramatic intensity of the episode "Karai's Vendetta" in the first season of April having to reside in the sewers for her safety. (If the show at least didn't have that scene of April having to stay in the sewers because it's "so dangerous out there" tone, I wouldn't have made a big deal of it.)

With OT April, it was because she got in trouble due to her job demands, or was used by Shredder and Krang to lure the Turtles into a trap knowing how close she was to them. At least with OT April she wasn't oblivious/forgetful to the threats in her life. :P

As for Nick Karai, she does have some potential, but the show should have followed up on the "Karai is Splinter's daughter" revelation from "Follow The Leader" in "Target: April O'Neil". With the fighting scene Leo has with Karai, its the first time he's fighting Splinter's daughter rather than Shredder's daughter. It would have been nice to have a line or two in "Target: April O' Neil" to support and follow up that dramatic revelation in "Follow The Leader"... :ohwell: Again... if the Nick show didn't make that revelation so dramatic (or didn't have it at all), I wouldn't have made it a big thing either.

I want to be enthusiastic for the show, but for me, the Nick show is dropping the ball too often here to effectively display believable character growth that I was hoping for (in which Nick displayed the potential for) back in the first season. Pushing aside my own personal preferences of characterization, humor, visual design of the characters, tone of the show, and plot twists, from a storytelling perspective, how can I take the show's drama as seriously as it wants me to believe, when the characters don't follow through on the show's own intense dramatic points?

What? I dunno. She's always there. What are you asking?

While we're on the subject, what's y'all's opinion of the new Casey? I am not to found of it. I understand it is a nick show but nothing tops Fred wolfs raving vigilat lunitic Clint Eastwood version, draw string sweat pants and all. Also the way he refers to him self in the third person and fights household appliances.

lol XD the OT Casey from the couple of episodes I've seen was truly a nut.

but I think 2012 Casey works for what's going on now, he seems pretty cool.

and pretty happy about bashing heads XD I couldn't ask more from a Casey.

(actually maybe some Raph Bromance.....)

we've only seen 2 episodes of this Casey though...and both episodes had to do with mostly April's problems....so it will be cool to see Casey get some of his own personal development.

Prior to the Shell Shocked interview I'd have said I was hopeful that April would be more than a token on the show.

But post? I'm keeping my expectations for her and her characterizations low so as not to be disappointed by what we'll inevitably see.

It troubles me to see people in this thread so easy to just give up on April, as if it's HER fault that she has questionable characterization, and not say...the fault of the writers.

It also troubles me to see a character that's been there from the beginning so easily brushed aside because "she doesn't do anything for the plot."
Neither does Mikey, but you'd never see a Turtle show without him.

I have no problem with this April at all. She's awesome and not a complete Mary Sue as she does have the flaw of being reckless and not realizing that she could be at risk when helping the Turtles. Plus she has the flaw of not really being as smart as we'd like to think since she told Karai that she was failing Trig, so we know that she does have schoolwork problems. My guess is that she probably got a tutor to help her out which allowed her to help Casey. I would like to see if she has other flaws though and definitely would love to see her interact with the other Turtles.

As for Karai, she's fine. I love how she smarts off to Shredder and she has disobeyed him twice now, though I'm sure there's repercussions for that in the future. I'm glad Leo got over his crush on her, though I honestly didn't mind it. Still, I hope that if she does turn good that she and Leo can still be friends and confide in each other.

Casey is awesome so far. No problems with him, and I can't wait to see more of him.

In full agreement here. I never get why people use April being kidnapped all the time as a flaw, she wasnt painted as a damsel in distress, but a hungry and determined career woman who would place herself in danger to best cover the story and expose the various goings-on to the general public. Getting captured was a risk she was always aware of and didnt care for. I find that very inspirational really, and taught me to appreciate journalists who do cover horrific scenes in wars abroad and whatnot, often getting captured themselves. To me, OT April's plights feel more 'real' than expecting a teenage version going through all this wacky and inconsistent nonsense.

As for Karai...eehhh, I never like it when she's 100% against the Turtles, she's just not interesting that way, she sort of becomes very generic. I like her being belonging more to a grey area, being on whichever side that makes her life a little easier to tolerate. She often sees benefits to both the ways of the Foot and the Turtles and tries to balance it out, sometimes suceeding, and sometimes failing.

first of all I'm pretty sure most of us here don't blame April herself......we just say April cause I guess it's easier. We know it's the writer's fault.

second...I don't want to give up on April...I really don't....it's just- I'm tired of being frustrated with her and her plot. Fixing April is SOO easy....it's just little things that can make her so much better.

and I do hope she gets better, but I'm just not holding my breathe anymore for it. She's the only GOOD girl on the show....I just want her to be done right.

third, you DID not bring Mikey into this! Oh no you didn't! :oops: first off he has done things for the plot! Chris Bradford anyone? New enemy. Leatherhead trusting him with the powercell because he befriended him? and of course his biggest contribution....he's bait! who else is gonna be bait??? Raph!? no. :D

but seriously, Mikey has helped out a bunch of times.

Gotta agree with the OP on both accounts. While I was a bit apprehensive about a teenaged April, I was still fine with it and willing to give it a shot as it has a lot of potential. I just don't think she's lived up to it. I think one of the reasons I find her bland is because all the characters say what a great person she is, but we don't really get to actually see it too often. It's a shame, really.

Karai, on the other hand, I never cared for until this show. Generally I gravitate toward the male characters on any given show, but I really love this version of Karai. She's snarky, sure, but you can tell from her season 2 appearances that there's more to her, and I'm really excited to see how she develops. I think her character has a lot of potential, and I can't help but hope it's not squandered like April's seems to be (for me).

And Casey? I just love this Casey, lol. May change my mind if move love triangle stuff comes into the picture, but for now I think he's great. Easily one of my favorite incarnations of the character.

The problem is that she was far too helpless for the job she wanted to do, and probably spoiled by the turtles. She seemed to have a big ego, and I grant that is more personality than the new April has, and it's not necessarily a bad trait, but she never brought anything herself to serve it. The least she could have done was try to learn to fight and conceal weapons; as the action figures did. As it was, she rarely even tried to hide; she leeched off the Turtles' abilities and took risks that no career concerns would've justified. You speak as though April was a freelance reporter in danger of poverty, but in fact, she worked for a company that showed no signs of going under. She'd be getting paid so long as she brought back something, and instead of settling for that, she insisted upon taking risks just to make a name for herself among her peers...which, again, would have been okay, except that she wasn't successful. High self-confidence is an admirable trait only when its holder has earned it. When someone just keeps charging into danger despite repeated humiliations proving they can't handle it, they eventually cross the line from respectably brave to deplorably stupid.

Also, note that April was a real asset to the turtles in the rare moments she stayed out of danger. She was able to bring them pizza, give them human companionship where it was mostly lacking, share vital information, and the like. At some point, she should've realized that this was her best capacity for getting things done, and nothing was worth dying over. The opportunity to get footage and insider information on the villains, she could have easily passed off to the turtles, then edited the footage to make it look like she took it herself.

It's a little early to say that; don't you think? 2012 Karai started in that grey area; she then moved to being 100% against the turtles, but she hasn't been that way for many episodes at this moment; certainly less than the time her 2003 counterpart was their sworn enemy. Also note that while she's currently opposed to the turtles, she also seems like she's turning against the Shredder. I expect her to go rogue eventually, in which time she'll learn to think for herself and eventually learn she was lied to.

People forget that Vernon, Irma, Burne, and Zach were kidnapped or in danger many times too, maybe not as much as April in the series, but still used as a pawn to get to the Turtles somehow or their curiosity to the villains got them in trouble too. It's just that since OT April visually fits the damsel in distress image being a curvy woman, some put her into that category. If OT April was an average looking guy and got into just the same amount of trouble, I doubt some would classify "him" into the "damsel in distress" category, but more of a bold, reckless, and zealous investigative reporter.

So let me get this straight, OT April is supposed to learn martial arts on top of having a demanding job as an investigative reporter, dealing with office politics with Vernon, an overbearing boss like Burne, while consistently informing the Turtles about what's going on or researching the archives of which villain to look up, and somehow maintaining her own household (paying bills, getting groceries, cleaning the home)? Dang, does she even have time to sleep? :lol: No wonder she has to settle on wearing that yellow jumpsuit and can get easily annoyed :lol:, considering the frantic pace of her life.

In the news business, competing news organizations are typically sending their investigative reporters in harms way just to gain an edge over the competition, such as going into war zones, an eye of a storm, riots, government corruption, political injustices, etc. While OT April's peril was a plot device to involve the Turtles, her intentions into getting "the story" wasn't necessarily for her ego, but because of the demands of her boss (Burne) and for Channel 6's ratings in having a juicy, tantalizing news story, and as stated in many episodes before, to be able to keep her job.

I will always love OT April the best. :tlove:

This is gold. :lol: I can easily classify her as superwoman if she did all that. :tlol:

It's just irksome that somehow there's a superficial notion that interprets if people (especially females) are perceived not to be a physical threat to others, they are considered "weak" or "helpless", rather than recognizing the mental/emotional strength in enduring and balancing multiple hardships at a time.

I rather have an April with personality then an April that can fight any day.

I agree a million times over.

Been a while, always during break times I disappear HA.

2012 April: Haven't really been impressed yet, always getting kidnapped fun and no interactions with the other turtles besides Donnie makes things more boring to me. The plot around her is interesting but other than that, hope they go deeper into it but so far. The love triangle won't help, 2003 April has been my favorite April version so far.

2012 Karai: She's always been a favorite of mine, the 2003 series she was pretty cool and I really liked her fights with Leo. I was a shipper of Leo x Karai too so finding out she was a family member in this version disappointed me but also is exciting, I'm intrested to see how things go between Leo and Karai since Leo now knows the secret. I like her attitude too and her skills are nice, the fights have been fun :D

Over all, this series I prefer Karai but let's see how things go. I just hope April has more interactions with the other turtles soon :(

To be fair, April hasn't gotten kidnapped THAT much though I do agree that I'd like to see her interact with the other Turtles as well.

And as for OT April getting kidnapped, that's the risk you take as a journalist. We see this all the time when journalists are overseas and get kidnapped while trying to cover a story, so it's definitely not a bad thing that this happened considering what happens in today's world. I'm sure she would have learned self-defense if the show had continued on or if she felt she needed it, but she really didn't, and none of the Turtles ever suggested it because they probably thought they'd always be around to protect her.

I do like how this April is learning, and while many feel that she's gotten too skilled too fast, you have to remember that there's a sufficient gap between the season one finale and the start of season two, so she could have progressed fairly quickly in that time. Also, there are some who feel she's a master at it, but I feel that if she was a master, she wouldn't have called on Donnie to help her out. Sure she was more confident, but she still needed the Turtles' help, which is proof that she hasn't surpassed the Turtles as far as being more skilled than them, and that's a good thing in my eyes.

Here here!

By the way the Turtles talk in The Mutation Situation, I don't think that much time has gone by. They specifically use the word "weeks" in the episode as opposed to "months" or something.

But what makes me think she's learning too fast the most is her use of the tessen. She gets it in Baxter's Gambit (ep 19) and rightly can't use it properly in Karai's Vendetta (ep 21), yet somehow she has no problems with it in Mutagen Man Unleashed (ep 30) even though she hasn't been training with Splinter for about a month. Not that she can't practice on her own, of course, but it still just seems pretty far-fetched to me.

I try not to be bothered by this as it was pretty obvious this was the plan from the start in order to get April more involved, but I can't help but wish they had tried harder to do so without needing her to be a ninja.

I don't care that she learns, I just don't like that they feel she has to in order to be a good character. :(

THIS! So much this. April is impossibly bland and I'm not sure why. Ciro and crew does such a great job creating personalities for all of the other characters...why can't they create a personality for their female lead?

Karai is so badass. Nothing negative to say about her character.

This April does have personality, she is not an eye candy damsel in distress like in the original series and she is not a "Mary Sue" like in the early 2000 series. While I agree she needs more interaction with normal people, family members, friends that are not turtles or Casey, etc.. It would be nice to find out more about her family life like how/when/where her mother died, were is her aunt, was she born in new York, etc. The show is only in the beginning of season two and they are taking there time to develop a lot characters and the story. This will not be a bad thing if the show last 4+ seasons, now if it ends at season 3 then I might have some issues.

How was April a Mary Sue in the 2003 series? I never saw any evidence of that.

Uh...Can you please explain to me how the 2003 April was a" Mary Sue?

She wasn't in my opinion, but she was just a bit too close. She had too many innate talents she didn't need to have. At least she didn't become the center of the plot, though; unlike her descendent.

Actually yeah; we would if they got captured anywhere close to as much as April was. Why do you think a lot of people hate Scrappy Doo, Slippy Toad, Cody Jones, and Timothy?

I'm not saying it would be easy, but when it's your life you're talking about, some things are still the smart thing to do. If learning to fight on top of her other responsibilities was too much, or alternately, not enough to get her out of a jam, well, maybe she should've quit her job. Yes; if she became unemployed, things would get hard for her, but deadly? That's quite a stretch. There's welfare, bank accounts, and other companies; not to mention that she had tough friends she could move in with and be safe.

I'm not completely familiar with all of those characters, but I think a great amount of the hate was toward their cloying, over-the-top "fanboy" enthusiasm behavior.

Apparently for April (and we could include other reporters who head out in perilous situations like war zones, etc.), even with the constant threat of dying, they are still willing to pursue that type of journalism. Now if she was constantly reluctant like Vernon, then for sure she should have been pursuing other jobs. One has to reason that April wouldn't have took the job, if she didn't know there were extreme risks in that type of journalism in the first place.

In addition, considering the villains she encounters (space aliens, ninja masters like Shredder, powerful crime bosses, etc.) even if she was a trained fighter, she would be delaying the inevitable of getting caught or being killed since she and any other recently trained person would be inferior considering her lack of experience, unlike the Turtles. It's the reason why the Turtles are introduced into the premise in the first place because they are the only ones who can save humanity from the excessive crime and sci-fi craziness that goes on.


While OT April may have her "damsel in distress" situations as with the other numerous humans the Turtles saved before, she's NOT a "damsel in distress" character. She has proven her "worth" so to speak by assisting the Turtles many times before: able to have access to news vans and the helicopter to transport the Turtles (even taking the wheel when there was ammunition fired on them), mechanical skills in fixing a helicopter ("Adventures in Turtle-Sitting"), cross referencing the background information of villains to understand their backstory and where to find them, disguise herself more easily to infiltrate into more public, social settings, being an advocate for them publicly when the city was against them (even to point of being nearly fired from her boss Burne several times over), nursing them back to health ("The Making of Metalhead"), and I could go on and on.

If OT April's ego was as big as some claim, she could have gone the route of Vernon and be a sellout by revealing their lair and turn against them in news reports to follow the fickle societal tides. It would have solidified her job security at Channel 6 for breaking that story.

Even though she may not be physically threatening, she has shown mental wit by fooling the villains (i.e. tricking Rocksteady in "Jealousy With Green", and the batmen in early episodes of Season 10).

Is OT April bold? Yes. Reckless even? Perhaps. But if we are going to start harshly criticizing characters for having a character flaw of being reckless using OT April, then I could easily argue hot-headed Raphael and curious, trouble-making Michelangelo (in most TMNT universes for both Turtles) since they would be a significant burden as well by making problems/missions more complicated despite their expertise in fighting.

I don't think I have any problems with OT, 4kids, or 2012 April. 2012 April needs to have a little more screen time. The writers should also allow her to interact with the other turtles. Lovin this new version of Karai, but then I also loved the 4kids version as well. Yep, I also think she'll go rogue eventually. Can't wait to see that! If the writers do decide to go with a sort of City At War arc, I hope it's Karai against the man who's been lying to her for her entire life. I'm glad she's getting to be in the spotlight right now. She's certainly developing plans of her own. That's pretty much a given. The rest of s2 should prove to be quite exciting.

I think April has had adequate screen time to develop some sort of personality. Karai had a lot less screen time and far better characterization. I just think the writers got a bit lazy with April being the slightly awkward good girl and didn't think it was important to make her something more.