Turtles Forever: a direct insult to the old 1987 cartoon?
 

"hey lets go to the lair and get our anti-technodrome gear"

ok so i just recently rewatched the "turtles forever" movie and i gotta say, whoever made it must have really hated the old 1987 toon with a passion. the way they are portrayed as complete bumbling idiots, and the stupid made up 80s toon song they play when they come out. i think they really took it too far the way they were portrayed, sure the old toon had its silly moments, but "turtles forever" makes it seem like they are acting like clowns 24/7 which is not the case, the real old toon turtles knew to be serious when it was time. this was pretty much a big slap in the face to the old toon. and also their voices were ridiculous. did Peter Laird write the script? cause i heard that he hated the old toon with a passion.

in any event, do you think that they exaggerated and went overboard in the portrayal of the old toon turtles being stupid silly and incompetent 24/7?

Yeah, I think they went to far with it, I think this old post of mine responding to Mikey's "Dorks" comment in the Nick series explains why I feel that way:

Anyone who doesn't give TF's portrayal of the FW turtles a second thought would surely think so.

But, despite the goofiness of the FW turtles, they still get stuff done. I see them as a condensed version of the FW turtles that have almost had 200 episodes of a show. And, since the 4Kids turtles are the straight guys group, they have to amp up the FW antics to make them look more distinct and different. Or else we would have had double of the same character, as it wasn't much time for character development for the FW or even the Prime turtles.

This thread again? :trolleye:

Yes it's pretty much disrespectful.

Kinda glad PL let go of the franchise.

No it wasn't. It was made by people who watched a hell of a lot of the old show and went to great lengths to include as much as they could from it. That doesn't sound at all like they hated it.

Somewhat but less than the Mirage turtles which were exaggerated as ultra dark bloodthirsty thugs which no one had a problem with.

That being said a lot of the lines of the 80s turtles were direct or paraphrased from the old show. A lot of the goofy things they did were direct nods to specific instances in the old show. People may not remember or refuse to acknowledge this stuff happened but it did. I honestly feel Fred Wolf fans need to get a sense of perspective and a sense of humor which is ironic considering that's what the 80s show was about.

Why? It's not like he wrote or had much more to do with the special than signing off on it. The idea that he mandated that that the Fred Wolf turtles have to be humiliated is stupid. In fact looking at his production notes what few suggestions he had was them to take out a scene were he said that the 80s turtles weren't that ineffectual so if anything their porytayal would have been worse.

The Fred Wolf turtles "goofy" ways saved the day more than once in the special and Bebop and Rocksteady saved the multiverse. It's this kind of ultra defensive at little more than lighthearted jabs I'll never understand.

I don't think it was an insult, The only knock against it was the fact they did not used the original voice actors for the 80s Turtles. That's because 4Kids does not hire union voice actors for there cartoons.

The movie made a point of showing that the '87 Turtles and the sillier aspects of their world were still effective - the multiverse-threatening technology stemmed from the Technodrome, the '87 Turtles saved the day more than once, and their Donatello created the technology that allowed them to travel to other worlds. AND they were perfectly effective in battle compared to their "edgier" counterparts. Their methods were silly, but they worked.

I think a lot of people get hung up on the good-natured ribbing at that show and miss the point of the movie: the '87 Turtles were initially presented as the butt of the joke, but in the end, though different, were proven to be just as "good" as every other version.

Some of you need to grow up.

I am a huge fan of the original cartoon and I thought the Turtles were portrayed fine. The only bad scene was the crying scene and the noogies.

Good nods aand... mean-spirited¡!¡

When I first saw Turtles Forever, I didn't know the 1987 show. I loved it immediatly. But when I started to watch the OT, my hate began to grow. It was just so disrespectful. The concept, animation and voices (except for the 80s Turtles) are alright, but I just don't like most of it. One part 2003 Donatello was making fun of 80s April's yellow jumpsuit, but a few minutes later the 2003 April came on the screen in a yellow jumpsuit. Sigh. Decent movie, I keep thinking those 80s Turtles are another dimension than the original OT Turtles.

Over the top caricature - Yes.
Direct insult - Not so much.

This thread needs to be locked. Poking fun at how stupid the Turtle Blimp is, is not an insult.

Mikey struggling to life a manhole cover is realistic. In the OT those manhole covers were like paper thin that a human or child could lift then. In a more realistic world those sewer covers are heavy;

Like it or not, that's how people remember the 80s toon.

...

Man, I feel all dirty now, using the same line people use against the Purists.

My guess has always been that ever since "Divide and Conquer", time went on for the Turtles and when they wound up in the 2k3 dimension, it was through space and not time. The portal stick was able to send them back in time to Turtle Prime 1984. I imagine all other iterations of the portals could too, it's just... why bother? Donatello probably had the same idea as Dr. Brown from Back to the Future: changing the past could have negative impacts on the present/future.

A justification from your made up headcanon right away. *swinging head*
It was never mentioned that those covers were heavy in 4kids toon universe before either.

well ot leo was definitely not a complete moron as he was depicted in turtles forever. unless they were solely basing him on the episode "leonardo lightens up" then yea. but in general, this movie just seemed like an hour and a half ot bashing. come on, giant bananas running around the street? they were definitely trying to make the ot look bad. but i gotta admit, i do wish the ot had stuck to the tone of the 1987 five-part miniseries. the later seasons did get a bit silly, but nowhere near as bad as turtles forever depicts it.

I didn't see it that way.....I saw turtles forever before I saw the 80's show

when I went back and watched the show...they still seemed pretty goofy....

I like the movie but have often questioned it as well
 

I get you make them silly, but they made them a bit too silly. It's all about contrast but there was a little too much of it. In the end they come together and fight but they still have to talk them down and say how serious it is, I felt that was unneeded. All in all good movie, but they did make them a bit too silly, I hear you on that one.

Hmmmm..should i or shouldnt i...

It wasn't a poking fun of it but downright mean spirited, it makes you not enjoy it. They were a parody.

Don't, alliance. Believe me.

general rule
 

If you have to ask you probably shouldn't

I wouldn't, if i were you

I didn't have a problem with it, really.

2k3 turtles thought OT turtles were dorks. Mirage turtles thought 2K3 turtles were dorks. Hell, they even poked fun at Mirage turtles a little bit with Leo basically monologue describing what they were doing as they did it and it NOT being a voice over....they outright asked why he was describing everything.

I didn't think it was insulting nor mean spirited, but it did poke fun at the cheesiness or "flaws" with the original cartoon. Saving April every week? Shredder being incompetent? Yep, and yep.

I liked how 2k3 Mikey loved the original cartoon group, though. And I thought it was funny how Raph tried to deflect the Mirage turtles' judgement by pointing out the original toons belts......and Mirage Mikey comments that he dug the belts at the end. :lol:

Will you stop it with wanting to lock every thread just because it's not positive or matches your opinion? Gah, it's getting annoying!

I don't think it was a direct insult myself, but I do think it was more to differentiate the OT Turtles from the 2K3 Turtles so that they all didn't act the same. I think the only thing that bugged me was the crying because it seemed a little OOC for them to do that, but other than that nitpick, I enjoyed the movie. Once I watch "Wormquake" tonight, I'll have a better comparison to make between that mini crossover and TF.

I think these are the best explanations; all the Turtles were extremely exaggerated in order the make the 2003 Turtles look "normal". This to me, however, is a sign of bad writing.

Great example is OS Donatello; He made allot of ridiculous contraptions in the old cartoon, but a portable transdimtional portal is too much. I remember Donatello DID make a transdimentional portal in the original series, but it was very big, very heavy, and broke down most of the time. By the end of one episode he gave up even trying to fix it, deciding just to convert it into a television screen.

That being said, a few of the jokes about the OS Turtles work well:
I thought this was a great joke about the animation mistakes from the original series.

I think that scene is my favorite from the movie. I laugh every time.

Other jokes about the OS Turtles, like this:
Don't work as well.

Yeah, the pizza gags fell flat. But I loved the 4th wall jokes and Hun freaking out, and the wrench was pretty funny. And an actual nod to an episode.

dude u dont gotta cry about it

Actually, that hammer/wrench scene was from one of the OT episodes where Donatello used a wrench as a hammer on one of his devices. I think it was from Leo Lightens Up.


People really overstate the "poor characterization" of the OT turtles.

Overall, I enjoyed it quite a lot. Yeah, it was kinda goofy but I didn't think it was that disrespectful. As others have said, the pizza gags fell flat-- and maybe that just makes it seem like it was disrespectful. The turtles are known for loving pizza, but it was a little over the top in the movie. But, anyway, I still loved it!

I think the 87 turtles were a little too goofy at times. To paraphrase 2k3 Raph, it was like having 5 2k3 Mikeys sharing the screen at times. Although the 87 turtles did exhibit their own personalities when they weren't going after 2k3 Mikey. Having watched the OT show more frequently in recent years thanks to the DVDs, I just don't recall the 87 boys acting as silly as they were portrayed in Turtles Forever. Not saying I dislike the movie. It's one of my favorites. I just wish the writers could have toned down the humor on the 87 turtles. They seemed to water down 87 Shredder and Krang as well. Did 87 Shredder even fight at all? I would have loved to see him holding his own a bit more. He did get creamed in the old show sometimes but he also got his hands dirty quite a bit. I loved that sceen where he boasted about zapping the 87 turtles with the giggle ray once everyone had gotten back home, then cackled maniacally. With Shredder and Krang, it felt like Revenge of The Fly from OT where they were locked in a closet the entire ep. I did enjoy seeing them again. Krang was very much like his old self. And I suppose 87 Shredder would really be no match for Utrom Shredder. That little guy's just plain vicious. Aside from the 87 portrayals being a bit over the top at times, I loved this movie. Uncut is the best way to see it, however.

I completely agree, the treatment of the original series turtles was horrible. They never behaved like idiots. The scene that made me upset when I watched the Turtles Forever Movie for the first time was when they started crying like little babies. And that design of the 2003 Turtles was based on Fast Forward; they look terrible.

Yeah, that along with the scene where the OS Turtles drop their weapons and run away are the two scenes everyone seems to universally dislike.
Not sure what that has to do with insulting the 1987 cartoon, but I agree. Then again, I've never liked the 2003 designs to being with. Before I watched the show, I used to refer to them as Mutant Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

No, not at all.

I hate to be cliche, but poking fun at something doesn't mean you just want to tear it down. The term "affectionate parody" exists for a reason, and boy, "Turtles Forever" falls under that.

As mentioned time and time again, the 4Kids crew put a damn lot of effort into getting the FW world to look as right as it could, and even the very idea of an anniversary tribute TMNT film requires more thought, motivation, and energy than just, "let's make fun of that other cartoon". The company and crew simply would not go to all that effort if the only thing they wanted to do was make fun of the OT.

Secondly, while you could nitpick tiny details in "Turtles Forever", that things weren't *exactly* like the old cartoon, that's an inevitable fact of different production crews and several years between productions. I don't hold that inability to be completely interchangeable with the OT against "Turtles Forever". It was about at the accuracy of, say, a really good fanfic, and more than decent.

Thirdly, as I said above, the OT had a lot of flaws that were ripe for being mocked. Calling attention to these faults doesn't constitute "bashing". I think the writers were using the contrasts between the two universes (and the Mirage stuff) as a vehicle for the humour. It would have been a lie to make the two universes the same and where everybody got along.

Not to mention boring.

"Affectionate Parody" sums it up pretty well. Also "Caricature", as I believe Jester said. It was fine. It was very broad, yes. It was broad on purpose.

It fits perfectly that, since the 2K3 TMNT were the "stars", the guest stars were going to be painted in broad strokes and made to look less effective and competent than the "stars". If the reverse happened, if the OT somehow made it back on the air and they did an episode where the 2K3 TMNT had a cameo, you just know Raphael would be all "Incredible Hulk", Mikey'd be bouncing off the walls, Leo would be super-duper-serious, etc., and OT Mikey or Raph would constantly be saying, "Like, you guys need to totally mellow out, dude!" They wanted to play up the contrast. It's the nature of these kinds of cross-over things. They simply condensed every "flaw" anyone ever listed about the OT into one place to better show how different the two interpretations were. That's all it was, and it was hilarious.

Also... this really IS like the 80th time a thread about this topic has come up. Is it a 6-month cycle or something? I feel we JUST went over all this not long ago.

This pretty much sums it up.
http://gregxb.blogspot.com/2013/02/t...was-right.html

Oh Jesus how do people still think this way? It's like nostalgia has microwaved your brains.

Wow, I actually agree with everything in that blog post. He actually lists why I and many others still like the original toon. As repetitive or silly as the show got sometimes, it was just fun because of the wackiness.

People need to accept the original toon universe for what it was, and not dock it for the lack of story arcs, character development, plot twists, etc.