TMNT III what went wrong?
 

Simple question, why? They've had all the right elements, Turtles could use their weapons again. Peter and Kevin would have written a way better script if they've given them the chance, parents moved on protesting the other things by that time. Why did they give the turtles to a guy who never directed anything good? What Lobotomized monkey thought, "Yeah, who needs a comic villains when we can cram a back in time shtick", i need reasons people. And what would you do differently?

Honestly, I feel the biggest problem was that without the Shredder, it seemed like the studio was desperate to find the turtles a conflict

Then why not do City at War? Shredder was dead, why not bring in clone Shredders?

Non-Henson suits....

Worse suits and an overly jokey (not in a good way) script. Which, to be fair, are problems TMNT II has as well.

I honestly think it gets a bad rap. Not that it's anything approaching a great film, but definitely in the way it's regarded in comparison to its immediate predecessor. I actually think it's a lot closer spiritually to the original film than the second one is.

I forgot to mention that, why didn't they just reuse the costumes? And why did they ditch Henson?

SOTO didn't bring as big a return as the first movie, so they dropped the budget, and that meant dropping the expensive Henson suits. As for reuse, the suits take a beating, what with actors sweating in them and such like they deteriorate pretty fast.

Actually TMNT III had a slightly larger budget than SotO, and 2 less "creatures." I'm really not sure why they didn't use Henson for a 3rd time....maybe they were unavailable... Or couldn't get them done quickly enough....

Totally spot-on about re-using the old suits, though.

I don't remember where I saw it, but I'm fairly sure Henson company wanted more to do the suits for the third film than the second, so they went with a cheaper company...

The suits, removing all of the original villains, and sending them to ancient Japan.

But went wrong behind the scenes? I re watched this movie and decisions made are baffling to me, it's just amazingly bad...

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't time travel the "in" thing then....someone should see how many movies had that as an element in the story around that time



They could've trying to cash in on a trend

What went wrong? Time travel and Time Scepter with no Renet...that's just wrong. Also, they had Elias Koteas back as Casey,but he was wasted as a baby sitter.

Also, there are plenty more things they could've done in a Time Travel story. How about making the Turtles indirectly responsible for the formation of the Foot? Using many of the elements they used (though shouldn't have) in the movie, could have led to the beginnings of the Foot Clan, ergo they would be responsible for their own creation as well as the creation of their own worst enemies.

Instead of time travel they should have been transported to dimension X, Boom! movie writes it self...

As you sai in your opening post,the biggest problem with Ninja Turtles III is the same biggest problem with TMNT. The lack of a pre-established villian. Made for movie villains are a waste when there is so much potential already there. While a time travel oreinted villain like Armaggon or Savanti Romero would not work for this concept Shredder's ancestor would. Perhaps the origin of the Foot clan itself be the central plot with Shredder having recovered from his last encounter looking to strengthen his hold of the Foot clan by making them into real ninjas thus having more success in current time and perhaps not lose his grip on New York City with the interference of the turtles. First move is the find a time sceptre rumors are that is in New York City somewhere. Then he wants to take control from the founder and install his ancestor as the head of the clan which he would one day be and remove Yoshi's ancestor who is the founder of the clan. Perhaps separarting himself from his father Kenshin starts the clan and is banished. He sees need to return when his girlfriend Mitsu who has custody of her nephew Yoshi begins to speak out against his father to protect her from imprisonment. Meanwhile his arrogant friend is secretly looking to usurp the upstart clan because he sees his love for a woman as a weakness. One must be focused on the strength of a clan alone. The turtles visit April who has a gift for them a sceptre of Japanese design. Shredder arrives and tries to take it telling them what is April has. In attempt to take it from them Michelangelo accidently sets off the sceotre and the six of them are transported to 1550 Japan. The two plots cross into one and Shredder disappears in search of his ancestor to help plot the take over of the clan and prevent its evolving into a street gang that he is to restart in New York. Yoshi's father having ended the clan seeing it had no place the modern world and traininng Yoshi to be a government operative for Japan. The turtles must stop Shredder from gainnning his ancestor's ascending to the head of the clan and framing Yoshi from trying to kill his disapproving father.

The corrupt yet cowardly Lord Norinaga,Kenshein,Mitsu and Yoshi would all maintain a role. I don't see the need for a greedy British arms dealer to be involved especially since the focus is on Fuedal Japan.

What do you all think?

For the record, I think the general plot is really smart and political even. Really too smart for a kid's movie. It made it boring at times. Too smart for little ones and too goofy/3-Stooges for adults. The issue is, they executed it terribly. And yes, the suits make it even worse. I think the first has even better suits than the cartoony, smirking ones Henson updated in the second one.

I like the plot and the lack of Shredder in this movie. It had potential to be a really good movie. The problem is as Casey put it, the execution as well as the costumes. Otherwise it had potential. I'm not afraid to admit that I have some sentimental attachment to this movie but I agree that it is not a good TMNT movie.

One aspect of TMNT III that really surprised me was that there were actually some decent and well choreographed fight scenes (with their weapons!), a big improvement over the lackluster fighting from the second film. However, like others have said, the movie just wasn't executed well enough.

The concept of it was cool. They just needed waaaaaay better suits and a script.

This, they looked effing horrible, just as bad as the Next Mutation suits.

Too slapstick. And Casey Jones was completely wasted.

Ironic though, the people didn't care for the suits in this movie, which weren't that much dissimilar to the Henson suits, but enough to put off people from seeing the movie, so why would the people in charge of the designs of the CGI Turtles today not learn from past mistakes??????

i wouldnt be surprised if Jim Hensons Death played a factor in the suits


remember this was a crucial time for them Both The Muppets and JHC where in limbo without knowing what to do or where to go next

What's wrong with TMNT 3?

1. Lame costumes.
2. Too much slapstick and camp and goofy sound effects.
3. No teeth to the conflicts.
4. No compelling Big Bad villain and an unsatisfying final battle.

But it's still better than TMNT 2.

If it was me, and I was tasked to "fix" TMNT 3?

1. Better costumes.
2. Slapstick to a minimum and no camp.
3. Well choreographed and elaborate battles in Feudal Japan.
4. Walker -- if he must stay -- reimagined and supplemented by Savanti Romero, who would be the real Big Bad, introducing a supernatural element as well. Perhaps at some point Savanti is tired of him and just kills Walker as we head into the final fight.
5. Actually do something with the Feudal Japan Casey... or eliminate the character altogether. Same with the samurai that went to present day NYC.

The biggest problem with TMNT 3 is that they dumbed it way down. They weren't interested in making a good film. To them it was just a dumb kids movie. Nothing more. All of the other problems with the movie exist because of this. The villains were tamed down and non threatening. The storyline was simplified. There were fewer battles. (Only 3 where as the first movie had 4 and the second had 5). Too many dumbed down kiddy jokes. No real feeling of threat or doom. Not to mention the worst ending to a turtles flick with walker imploding into himself just before he hits the water.

haha i wouldn't hold this against them that was just..you know SFX of the time

naaah, he was just transported into dimension X :lol:

See, now that would be something interesting to see in a movie. Stranger trapped in Dimension X, Turtles end up there, have to work with enemy to survive and then the decision to rescue him or not...

The main problem of the movie, that it is very boring.
Premise is interesting and have some potential, but the whole story drags at a turtle pace. Villains were not interesting at all and the whole confict left only flat "what" impression. Yeah, Turtles lead resistance against evil ruler...whatever.

On the other hand I am glad that creators of this movie decided to make something different instead of another dumb ressurection of the Shredder and more mutants. If only it was executed better...

For all people who says, that they should have made movie about Dimension X I want to remind, that it was beginning of the 90s and the whole alien dimension, most likely, ended up looking like "alternate earth" in Super Marios Bros. movie or equally ridiculous.

I never really had a problem with TMNT III. Like most have said, the suits could have been better (personally, my only real complaint was the spots) but otherwise, I liked it. The humor was mostly pretty clever (Mikey's comments about cappuccino and asking Kenshen how he got in April's pants) and Walker made sense as a villain for that time period. If nothing else, the movie stayed true to the atmosphere of that point in history. Donnie even explains it briefly. If the movie suffered from anything, it was pacing and the ending being so abrupt. And I also agree that Jim Henson's death probably had something to do with the problems that arose.

My biggest problem with it was the lack of Shredder when I was a kid. I rather enjoyed it then, but can't really get into III now when I sit down to watch it. Looks like the writers were attempting to veer away from Shredder which might have worked if they'd come up with a better villain. Love the idea of them getting trapped in Dimension X. Would have been neat to see the futile version of The Foot in III rather than what we got.

See, the lack of Shredder never bothered me, because we already KNEW he was dead this time. (And if he wasn't, that would have just sucked, since they basically SHOWED it in SotO.) Having a completely new bad guy(s?) fit into the time period AND gave it something different for me. I liked how they sort of seeded it with ideas that maybe Casey's and Hamato Yoshi's (possible) ancestors might have been involved, too. Made it feel so much more connected to the previous films that way.

The villains were actually more realistic this time around- basically, the turtles stumbled into a civil uprising, being instigated by a warmongering European looking for a profit. Sounds about right to me! And it fits into the more "grounded" version they were trying to go with, anyway. At that point, anything with Dimension X would have been WAAY too "out there" for a TMNT movie based off of the original. Even TCRI had its name changed and was simply a chemical company that had been dumping radioactive waste. No aliens in sight, folks.

I still hold to the Casey/Whitt, Shredder/Norinaga and Kenshin, Yoshi/Mitsu, Yoshi, and Grandfather ties to the mainline TMNT universe.

But it's sad i have to make that kind of bridge to make TMNT III better. :P

The lack of Shredder (or any major comic/cartoon villain) never bothered me here either, even as a little kid. Shredder's dead by that point anyway. The problem with Walker was that he wasn't ultimately much of a threat, but I really like him in concept, and he's perfectly contemptible when he's on screen.

I'm all for lower-key villains every once in a while. The film has problems, but I don't think he's anywhere near the top of them.

Exactly. And he wasn't meant to be a threat to THEM, anyway. He was selling guns to Norinaga to win his war against a bunch of untrained peasants. Classy guy. The THREAT was that everyone was after the scepter, and there was only a limited amount of time for the turtles to rescue April, find it, and get back home. They were never even supposed to get involved in that mess! The only reason they did at all was because Mitsu captured Mikey after he got lost. And since he was in danger along with all the villagers..... Well, that was the catalyst that got them into the fight. That, and saving Yoshi's life. Guess they can't go anywhere without getting dragged into something, LOL!! (And Walker WAS a pretty despicable human being. So was Norinaga, in some ways. No wonder Kenshen wanted to go join the rebels!)

Which makes it a quintessentially Turtle story: Our heroes wind up in a situation by accident and only join the fight to get back home.

The single biggest sin this movie committed though, was wasting Elias Koteas returning as Casey Jones. Seriously, the first Ninja Turtles movie pretty much had the single best representation of Casey Jones in any media (apart from the earlier comics), and they squandered that with Casey playing babysitter.

Of course tying the civil war directly into the foundation of the Foot would've given a cohesiveness to the story without breaking budget...

Agreed, Jester! Seems like most of the stories about them have some kind of external conflict that they only get involved in by proxy. Even in the original movie, Raph follows April around to get his sai back only to end up fighting the Foot to help her, and brings her home, which gets Splinter abducted after he is followed back to the lair. And all because he was ticked about losing that sai!

That, in addition to having actual emotional beats, is why this one feels so much closer to a Mirage story.

Or would, minus the jokey script and all the other trite cartoony elements. Somewhere in there, there's a legitimately more pure, enjoyable Turtles movie than the second one ever had in it. It's just not what we got in execution.

Legend of Koji aired in the Fall of 93 and I already own TMNT 3 on VHS. So naturally, I was trying to make connections with Saki and Norinaga due to this episode's inspiration, Jester. Don't feel bad. You're not the only one doing that. Certainly helped all 3 movies flow together for me. The X-Men animated series was also flourishing then, so I was becoming a lover of continuity and all things boasting interweaving plot threads. I wonder what sorts of movies would have been made if this film series continued. The 3rd movie always felt like the beginning of another story that was of course never fleshed out, imho. The camp of the 3rd film never bothered me too much. I do wish we'd seen more callbacks to the first 2 films. Since Perry was supposed to have been an utrom, it would have been nice if David Warner had been able to reprise the role for a brief cameo. That way, the whole utrom thing would have been set up for later films. I would have been upset if that had never gotten green-lit, however.

"Just like Elvis in Blue Hawaii"

hey at least the Turtles look great compared to Splinter