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-   -   the "teenage" in Ninja Turtles (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=47664)

The Boston Ninja Turtle 06-06-2014 09:40 AM
the "teenage" in Ninja Turtles
 
so i have been having this convo a lot with people, and i wanted to hear the views of some fellow dromers..how do you view the "teenage" part in TMNT?

is it name alone? as actual teens?

i know for me personally ive never viewed them as "teens" outside of name alone..aside from the current toon they have always acted older partly do to being raised by splinter.we do know its 15(give or take) years from mutation day usually they surface..but what we don't know if how old where they as baby turtles..just hatched? a few years?

Prowler 06-06-2014 10:45 AM
How didn't they act like teenagers in the other incarnations? They've always come across as being 18-19 years old in the other two cartoons to me.

Candy Kappa 06-06-2014 11:40 AM
The Turtles have always acted older then heir age would indicate, it's one of the things I love about the current cartoon, is that they do feel portrayed as young teenagers.

But, considering their situation, it's not out of place to depict the as acting more adult/less childish being raised in the sewers, hiding from society and trained in stealth to avoid any outside world contact and/or assassinate a ninja master.

and by human standard, they are teenagers being 15 years old as the standard introduction age, despite their maturity., despite their maturity.

KirkyMonster 06-06-2014 12:22 PM
They are teenagers in my mind it just works better that way to me.

Netkeeper 06-06-2014 12:31 PM
In every incarnation they're still very obviously teenagers. I prefer the continuities where they act more mature because it makes more sense; given their upbringing, they'd realistically have to grow up very quickly. They still have their obvious teenage moments, though. I think in all continuities except maybe Mirage and 2012, they act their age perfectly fine.

Then again, I talk to a lot of teenagers. Maturity levels with them can vary WIDELY.

Candy Kappa 06-06-2014 12:33 PM
well, pop-culture/TV teens :P Since teenagers isn't all raging stereotypes as shown on the telly.

Netkeeper 06-06-2014 12:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Candy Kappa (Post 1277123)
well, pop-culture/TV teens :P Since teenagers isn't all raging stereotypes as shown on the telly.
Well yeah. And it's much better writing to portray teenagers more realistically than it is to portray them as a broad collection of tropes and stereotypes.

Powder 06-06-2014 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Netkeeper (Post 1277122)
I think in all continuities except maybe Mirage and 2012, they act their age perfectly fine.
They're perfect teenagers in the Nick series. & the Mirage turtles were raised with the sole purpose of killing, so it's not unfair for them to be grim and mature at young ages. But even then, they have teenage moments.

Donatello19 06-06-2014 05:08 PM
One of my favorite things about the Nick series is that they actually act like real teenagers. I never got that vibe from any of the other incarnations honestly...I mean, maybe a bit, but very mature/older teens at that...like maybe 19 years old.

CyberCubed 06-06-2014 05:24 PM
In the OT they acted like 20 year olds and in 4kids like they were 18-19.

Same for Mirage.

Netkeeper 06-06-2014 06:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powder (Post 1277207)
They're perfect teenagers in the Nick series. & the Mirage turtles were raised with the sole purpose of killing, so it's not unfair for them to be grim and mature at young ages. But even then, they have teenage moments.
I think the 2012 turtles act more like 13 year olds. In fact I'd like them a lot better if they were.

But you're absolutely right about the Mirage turtles.

Powder 06-06-2014 06:36 PM
Maybe so, but that still makes them thirteenagers, feel me? There's different levels of being a teen, and they match the one suited for developing minds.

Netkeeper 06-06-2014 06:42 PM
Oh, yeah, 13 is still a teen. Just not the specified age. :V

pennydreadful 06-06-2014 07:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Netkeeper (Post 1277122)
In every incarnation they're still very obviously teenagers. I prefer the continuities where they act more mature because it makes more sense; given their upbringing, they'd realistically have to grow up very quickly. They still have their obvious teenage moments, though. I think in all continuities except maybe Mirage and 2012, they act their age perfectly fine.

Then again, I talk to a lot of teenagers. Maturity levels with them can vary WIDELY.
I've always considered them teenagers in every incarnation, just with different maturity levels in the continuities.

Technogeek29 06-06-2014 07:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennydreadful (Post 1277320)
I've always considered them teenagers in every incarnation, just with different maturity levels in the continuities.
Well in each incarnation (except maybe Mirage) I consider them all immature in a different way. The most mature ironically is the OT the sillest incarnation.

Warboss74 06-06-2014 11:25 PM
Being teenagers doesn't mean they have to act like average American teenagers, especially considering they've grown up with a very Spartan lifestyle depending on version. Would you expect them to be just like average teenagers in that situation? Now I don't think they would be like Clovis I at 15, but I'd imagine they'd lean closer to him than average American teenager.

Sighphi 06-07-2014 01:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warboss74 (Post 1277387)
Being teenagers doesn't mean they have to act like average American teenagers, especially considering they've grown up with a very Spartan lifestyle depending on version. Would you expect them to be just like average teenagers in that situation? Now I don't think they would be like Clovis I at 15, but I'd imagine they'd lean closer to him than average American teenager.
Word, they always seem to me to be teenagers that spent their whole lives being trained as ninja. Heck, not that long ago kids were working in factories next to everyone else probably cause there was nothing to do. These kids have nothing to do but be ninjas.

fridaynightdestination 06-07-2014 09:07 PM
Teenagers for sure. In most incarnations they come of as 15-18 years old. For example:
1990's turtles- They act 16 to 17 years old.
2003 Turtles- Act 16 to 17 years old.
2007 Turtles- 16-18 years old.
2012 Turtles- Act 13 to 15 years old.

Slade 06-07-2014 09:56 PM
Now that I'm actually sitting here thinking about it, I've always mostly viewed them as teenagers. I like the way Nick has it feel like the turtles are in their early teens.

In the OT, they all seem around 16-19. But not a different age for each.
Live action movies I see it Mike 16, Don 17 or 18, Raph 18 or 17, Leo 19 or 18
Now the 2k3 series/2k7 movie. I see them as older. Especially Leo, I kind of see him as maybe 21, Raph 20 or 19. Mike like 18.

Mirage I see them all the same age, just hardened.

Refractive Reflections 06-08-2014 10:49 AM
I've responded to this a few times before about the whole "teenage" aspect to TMNT and their unique life experiences compared to our own relatively sheltered youth:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Refractive Reflections (Post 1140756)
These Nick Turtles are probably more teenagerish than I would expect with crime-fighters, and not always in the best way (i.e. the Turtles' lack of sympathy for Timothy in "The Pulverizer Returns" episode). But as I mentioned before in previous threads, these instances can be used to show how dramatically the Nick Turtles will mature through subsequent seasons. Also I have to consider that these Nick Turtles were sheltered from the outside world for nearly 15 years, so... **shrug**

I could tolerate and accept the OT and 2K3 Turtles as being teenagers (excluding the voices though), because I assumed that their brutal fighting experiences in the past had matured them at a much faster rate than other teenagers at that age. It's because I had a few friends who grew up in the crime-rampant inner city who were teenagers, in which their experiences forced them to mature leaps ahead than their more sheltered, secured peers residing in the middle-class/affluent suburbs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Refractive Reflections (Post 1141073)
Well, I know its only kids cartoons :P, but as for how sheltered the OT and 4Kids Turtles really were before their adolescence is always debatable. (I mean in the 4Kids series the Turtles snuck out to meet Casey Jones, what's to say they didn't sneak out again? :ohwell:)
But anyways, I'm just generally speaking and not necessarily about the Turtles in which I'm sure that whoever goes out in the dead of night and involves themselves into possible lethal street fights would immediately be struck with the harsh reality of the cruelty of the criminal underworld, and would be forced to mature quickly if they wanted to survive. Therefore, I somewhat applied it to the OT and 4Kids Turtles, that their lack of teenage behavior didn't bother me if they were constantly associating themselves in this criminal underworld.

But yeah, I know they're all cartoons for kids. :P I wasn't trying to make the Turtles characters (OT or 4Kids) unnecessarily tragic, just more or less if they are fighting with lethal street thugs/enemies constantly, you can't expect any "over-the-top" childish/teenage behavior to last too long (but it doesn't mean they have to always be grim and serious). But all I was trying to convey was that the OT and 4Kids Turtles' lack of teenage behavior, and "young adult" behavior (?) could be believable in their teenage years because of their unique experiences (compared to their human peers), but whatever... :ohwell:
Personally the Mirage Turtles are a bit too grim for my taste since they were specifically trained for killing, but it's not far from reality for these Mirage Turtles considering the military use of children, especially in some African terrorist militia groups.
http://www.a24media.com/the-children-of-terror/

https://therisingcontinent.files.wor...in-the-drc.jpghttp://www.a24media.com/wp-content/g...oldiers_06.jpg

Sewer Sirens Podcast 06-08-2014 11:33 AM
Here's an article from TMNT Entity on the subject:

http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2014/...n-teenage.html

I, also, never really thought of the turtles as teens (only in the Nick show). Even in the 1987 cartoon, I didn't ever really think of them as teens.

ssjup81 06-08-2014 11:40 AM
For the 2k12 series they are definitely teen like. OT version...I felt they were teen like...maybe later teens though. They did enjoy playing at an arcade and stuff.

The Boston Ninja Turtle 06-09-2014 01:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sewer Sirens Podcast (Post 1278087)
Here's an article from TMNT Entity on the subject:

http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2014/...n-teenage.html

I, also, never really thought of the turtles as teens (only in the Nick show). Even in the 1987 cartoon, I didn't ever really think of them as teens.
that is a great article thanks for sharing

Netkeeper 06-09-2014 10:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sewer Sirens Podcast (Post 1278087)
Here's an article from TMNT Entity on the subject:

http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2014/...n-teenage.html
Wow, I never want to read this blog again. They're idiots. The 87 turtles were still Splinter's sons, he refers to them as such.

Quote:
They still hung out with adults like April and Casey, which in itself could become a little weird and problematic.
How the hell is this a problem at all. What is wrong with teens hanging out with 23 year olds? I hang out with teenagers all the god damn time. One of my best friends is 16.

Quote:
Also, the Turtles in that cartoon were friggin’ jacked for 15
AS THEY SHOULD BE. They spent their whole lives training. They're going to be ripped, and anything less is unrealistic. Being 15 means nothing -- as long as they've hit puberty age where testosterone is going to start giving them prominent muscle growth, they're going to have it. They aren't like the scrawny 2k12 turtles that still need to grow into their bodies -- they already grew into them.

Quote:
miniature adults
Of COURSE it's proper to treat them as miniature adults, LOOK AT THEIR LIFESTYLE AND LOOK HOW FAST THEY HAD TO FRIGGIN' GROW UP.

Quote:
“their unique upbringing made them grow up faster psychologically so they don’t exhibit typical immature teenage attitudes”. There’s any number of excuses
Oh, so you know why. IT'S NOT AN EXCUSE IT'S CALLED REALISTIC CHARACTER WRITING.

Wow, this article made me mad.

Andrew NDB 06-09-2014 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Netkeeper (Post 1278742)
Being 15 means nothing -- as long as they've hit puberty age where testosterone is going to start giving them prominent muscle growth, they're going to have it.
There's no reason to think or assume that mutated Turtles have human-like testosterone, or that it would even work the same way it does for them as it does in humans.

Which is kind of hand in hand with my point about the ridiculous expectations people seem to continually place on the TMNT -- that they either don't act enough like normal human teenagers or that they should be acting more like normal human teenagers.

They shouldn't. They're not. Their lives and upbringing are nothing like yours or mine... not remotely. You want to get your normal teenage behavior fix on TV, go watch "The Carrie Diaries" or something.

Cipher 06-09-2014 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Netkeeper (Post 1278742)
Wow, I never want to read this blog again. They're idiots. The 87 turtles were still Splinter's sons, he refers to them as such.
I don't believe he actually does. It's nearly always (maybe actually always?) "my pupils."

I don't really care how mature the Turtles are portrayed as being, although my favorite stories have taken advantage of them having a little more adult awareness, in regards to mortality, morality, etc. But my favorite Turtles anything is post-#50 Mirage, so your mileage may vary.

Bry 06-09-2014 12:36 PM
I've always considered them teenagers, albeit teenagers who (in most versions) had to grow up a lot quicker than most human ones do and are far more capable and independent out of necessity. But there are still usually some telltale signs of adolescence (such as Raph's emotional outbursts, Mikey's more childlike nature, etc).

IMO, each word in "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" should be essential. Not always the case in practice, though...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipher (Post 1278802)
I don't believe he actually does. It's nearly always (maybe actually always?) "my pupils."
Turtles Forever made a point to show the '87 Turtles confused when the '03 Turtles called their Splinter "father". I can't be sure, but from memory I recall them being called "students/pupils" and "master/sensei" respectively in the '87 cartoon, but not "sons" or "father". I always felt they had a father/sons relationship, but I don't recall it being stated on the show itself.

The Boston Ninja Turtle 06-09-2014 12:41 PM
even Michelangelo is known in the 87 series to say "my pals" or "buds" over "brothers"

Refractive Reflections 06-09-2014 12:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Netkeeper (Post 1278742)
Wow, I never want to read this blog again. They're idiots. The 87 turtles were still Splinter's sons, he refers to them as such.
There are a few times Splinter says it, but not as often to give a sense of a family dynamic as compared to other TMNT versions though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Netkeeper (Post 1278742)
Of COURSE it's proper to treat them as miniature adults, LOOK AT THEIR LIFESTYLE AND LOOK HOW FAST THEY HAD TO FRIGGIN' GROW UP.

Quote:
“their unique upbringing made them grow up faster psychologically so they don’t exhibit typical immature teenage attitudes”. There’s any number of excuses
Oh, so you know why. IT'S NOT AN EXCUSE IT'S CALLED REALISTIC CHARACTER WRITING.

Wow, this article made me mad.
Yeah that "there's any number of excuses" is inadvertently close to being offensive because having some friends who grew up in the inner city before moving to a better school district, and visiting those scary places myself, they told me, "So imagine hearing people getting raped and killed as the lullaby to your nights before going to bed as a child. You think being in high school as a teenager, I was concerned about popularity and proms, and could relate to them? I already felt like a thirty-something witnessing such human brutality and could get along with middle-aged adults easier. I got along more with the teachers in my school more than my classmates. My teenage innocence and ignorance was long gone. In fact, I didn't experience it like these middle-class teenagers do." ...And here these Turtles are dealing with life-threatening battles all the time.

Now I'm not saying the Turtles have to be excessively grim as I stated before, but their unique, insecure lifestyle to explain their more grownup thinking is not just an "excuse", it's a legitimate reason.


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