The IDEA of Karai mutating into Venus
 

So this is kind of a rant. I'll try to keep it short, but no promises.

Spoilers? I guess?

I've seen so many posts or fan art of Karai mutating into Venus. What the heck is up with this obsession?

Now, I can accept Karai mutating, it would for one be our first girl mutant (Tho, I wish it could have been an original) and I can see it being pretty good character development for her and the gang. I also don't think it will be permanent, probably something to sell a toy to little girls or something. BUT, I want her to be Karai. I want her to be a mutated Karai not a Karai turned into some other mutant of the franchise.

I don't mind when a new character is introduced and becomes a classic mutant, I don't mind a new mutant double mutating to make a classic mutant and I don't mind new characters mutating into new mutants...but I hate the idea of a classic character mutating into a classic mutant that are not the same characters.

What would even happen if a human mutated after touching a mutant? It happened with Slash and he turned out all messed up. Karai derp?

I mean, Karai mutating into Venus wouldn't even make sense, they are NOTHING a like. (Aside from the sister kinda thing) Karai is fierce and powerful by her own human physical abilities and training and Venus was annoyingly ignorant and relied on her powers. Not to mention the whole Chinese influence that Karai clearly doesn't have. Their back story isn't even close to the same. Meshing them into the same character would be sloppy.

I'm hoping that Ciro has enough respect for the show and Laird to not put Venus in it at all... or take a beloved character and turn her into a less beloved character. I really am. If not that, then the fact that the NM show was practically a joke, will keep him away from that road.

I mean, most of these people that are all 'OMG VENUS I LOVE VENUSSSS' (That I've encountered) Like the IDEA of Venus more than they actually like Venus. The idea of a Girl turtle that's part of that all boy team. (Fangirl fantasies man) Some of them haven't even seen the damn show! Or they like it because it's 'the underdog" you know..that "I'm a non conformist/Hipster, I think what isn't cool, is cool because no one thinks it's cooool!" *Throws a chair*
Note: I'm not saying all Venus fans are this way, I've just encountered these ones.

NO! God, she's such a ****** character I can't stand it! Her back story was just thrown together with no originality or thought like, seriously at least they could have given her a better story. They just thought "She's a girl and girls are opposite from boys... so lets make her totally opposite with everything!!!111 Power vs Physical, Girl vs Boy, Chinese vs Japanese. And as for back story, well guys lets jut say she was in the tank and splinter conveniently couldn't count and forgot her and no one remembered SO THUR WUZ ACTCHULY 5!111 because we are too lazy to think of ANY OTHER WAY another turtle could have been mutated in this universe of RANDOM MUTANTS POPPING UP FROM DIFFERENT ORIGINS!"

I feel like April's power is a nod to Venus and that's enough. I can take that. I mean Venus basically took April's place in the next mutation, so I'm ok with this slight tribute/mesh with April, if it is in fact a nod.

Please Nick, if you have to make a girl turtle, maker her original and for the love of mutagen don't make her Karai.

Don't try to make her Mona Lisa either or Alopex. Let them be their own characters.

I'd rather see Karai as a rat or some other animal. We have 5 turtles, maybe even 6 if they bring in Tokka. (Please do) ISN'T THAT ENOUGH?!

So in conclusion, I say 'NAY' to this idea!

I'm done.

Put it as a spoiler asshole.

I didn't even know this until you put it as a big ass thread title. Inconsiderate much?

Whoa, whoa, there buddy, no need for hostilities. I thought it was pretty much a known theory/leak/fact.

The thread title isn't even a spoiler. You could have clicked it and the thread could have said 'What do you think about this theory?'

My.Bad. I'll change it just for you.

Venus won't appear in the Nick show in any form so I don't know why people keep mentioning her.

Please no. I'd probably laugh my ass off, but please no.

It might have been cool had they had a sister involved all along, but Venus was thrown in there so randomly... the guys just need to stay their Turtle foursome.

At most, if they did it for a very short time as a homage to Venus or some other character and managed to turn her back to human, I could deal. Personally I'd rather she remained human. Now that I have a reason to actually like her a little I'd rather get to know the better side of her character first before she'd forever or long term become someone else.


Yeah, I've kinda wondered on that one. Would have to suggest they've clearly got some human-like genetics in there if it can still rub off on someone else. Though with regards to Slash, I figured the way he turned out was just likely related to being not only an entirely different species than the guys but possibly also older than they are.


Edit: If they turned her turtle at all, by any name or form... Hope Leo really is fully over his thing for her because that just becomes that much more awkward, esp if she moves in. Nick, please go with a different species...

I hope you're right. I really do.

I'm not sure why either, but it's been talked about a lot lately since that 'mutated karai figure' leak.

I've never watched anything with Venus in it and I have no desire to. I love the Nick show and so I'm hoping they don't go down this route. The idea of a girl turtle just doesn't sit well with me.

I want her to stay human as well, or at least go back to being one quickly if she mutates. We'd be down to what? Casey being the only full human part of the gang (Unless they bring Irma in from her side role)?

I still think April's magical powers/feelings are homage enough. For me anyway.

I suppose that makes sense too. I just always thought it was because the last thing he touched was Raph who was a mutant so he was a mutated mutant turtle mutant...turtle? Either theory works.

This is common knowledge, you're the one being an asshole. :tgrumble:

Why do I have a feeling either way this is gonna be a little creepy... lol

With the exception of Spike/Slash who was just a simple pet who was part of a scene on occasion and April's dad who's absent for most episodes, I think Karai may be the first more in depth character we see it happen to after we've had a chance to care about her a bit? Far as I can recall I think the rest have all been enemies or random characters that only got an episode or two, those we haven't had reason to care if they were mutated or not. Well, I guess there was the "Pulverizer," but he was more the annoying fanboy hanger on and seems to be gone for now or for good.

Karai... this feels second only to the thought of it happening to April and life changing a bit for their family. o.O (Not that it already isn't with her finally knowing the truth.)

Karia mutating into Venus isn't going to happen but Karai mutating into something else, maybe. There a lot of rumours going around especially on Tumblr, where everyone is going crazy that Karai is "apparently" going to mutate in tomorrow's episode, which i don't believe is true.

Tell this to the people on here who aren't regulars or people who aren't on this forum.

I'm pretty sure they wouldn't know...

There's a difference between what we know and "common knowledge".

Common knowledge meaning common knowledge to those of us on the board who pay attention, at the very least. My point still stands.

Yeah, I didn't know that Karai was going to be mutated. So thanks for that. :x

That still doesn't mean you have to respond in a derogatory manner. The way Shark Blade responded was uncalled for and unnecessary.

What was the name of that Asian Nickelodian site where we once had that leak of April Derp a few weeks before we saw her? Maybe they might have a preview of what Karai will change into.

Okay people take a deep breath and calm down.

We know that Karai is going to mutate for the most part. We don't know if that would happen in tomorrows episode though that is likely. But it also very well could happen in the remaining four episodes or in the next season.

And yes, the likely characters that we know she could become are Ninjara, Mona Lisa, Alopex, and Venus.

Alopex is the least likely because Nick wants to keep the IDW universe and the Nick Turtle universe as separate as they can.

However when Nick has introduced a classic character it has mostly been the character we know and love but in name or form only. For example Bebop and Rocksteady existing, but having the different personalities or reasons to exist then their previous incarnations.

I think Karai is more likely to turn into a new mutant then to be a classic character.

However if she does become Mona Lisa, Ninjara, or Venus she would only be those characters in name only.

I don't wish Karai to become Venus any more than anyone else on this forum. However if they do decide to make her into Venus, then this would be a more likable version of her character rather then having a contrived reason for existing.

It wasn't to me. I came across people theorizing that she will be mutated and theorized that she may be the "Venus" if this incarnation, but nothing official. I'm not bothered or anything though by the info.

On paper, the Nick Karai/Hamato Miwa mutating into Venus is actually kind of the most brilliant way of going about a female Turtle.

* She's already basically their sister, as Splinter was her father.

* As such, there wouldn't be any of the weird sexual tension that NT:TNM desperately tried to inject into things.

* Since the Nick universe makes no attempt or illusion of playing upon the TMNT as unique or outcasts (they can go to the store anytime and sit down and eat pizza gyoza, and there's like a million other mutants running around New York now) making Karai/Miwa into Venus wouldn't take away from that aspect... because it doesn't exist here.

* Having so much mileage already on the show as a human and right hand of the Shredder, her complicated origin by having been raised by and lied to her whole life by the man who basically killed her mother and screwed over her real father... she brings to the table a compelling character.

* The show gets a free pass on the Bechdel Test from here on, more or less.

The big downside of course, is we lose one more from the already greatly diminished human cast. And when we get SuperShredder (or rather, Super-er Shredder, since he's already like a walking SuperShredder on the show), who's left? Just Casey, since April's some kind of freak. And a couple of Purple Dragons.

There's also the question: do we even want a female Turtle?

No. And its pretty obvious Venus will never be used again.

Its actually amazing that for a character that was so hated and hasn't seen the light of day since 1998 is constantly brought up over 20 years later. It's like Venus and the Next Mutation psychologically traumatized us when we were younger that the pain and damage lingers as adults decades later.

She'll absolutely be back one day in some form. In every fictional universe, even the worst characters/ideas have fans, who grow up to work on the newest version of the thing they loved as kids, and can't resist squeezing in their unloved pet concept into their work. It's pretty much why Grant Morrison even has a job.

Jason Todd came back. Literally no one ever asked for that, but it happened, and he's a major player now. Venus will be back, one day, maybe not in this show, or a major role, but that character WILL be used again, I'd guarantee it.

Well I put spoiler twice so you read at your own risk. The whole post was mostly about how I feel about this popular theory/idea that's floating around. Not that karai was going to mutate into Venus.

This. Despite my fondness for NM, I always found Venus to be a fairly uninteresting character. She wouldn't be my first choice for Karai's mutation purely because of NMVenus's bad history, but as long as Karai's personality remained intact, I actually wouldn't have a problem with a female Turtle.

Cubed, some people wouldn't mind seeing a female Turtle. Myself included. The rest of your comment... I can't even deal with. :roll: Good gravy, I think your particular brand of Cubed Logic is starting to get to me... :tlol: I seriously cannot work out whether you're serious or just messing with people sometimes!

Powder suggested a good way to do Venus in one thread. I can't find it, but it was really good.

If you're talking about what I think you are, I more or less said it'd be a good shortcut to get her to bond with her "new" father, in that Donnie only has enough retro-mutagen for one person & Splinter gives up his chance to be human again so that she may return to normal. But that's not Venus specific, just mutating in general. But as a temporary move, I like the idea. Seeing things as a mutant turtle would definitely help her get close to her "brothers" too. Not to mention it could potentially redeem the Venus character a little bit. Lord knows she needs it. & Andrew worded my view on the subject quite well.

I really think if Karai is going to mutate into Venus, there is not much we can do about it. Who knows we might like this version of Venus.

I for one am 100% open to her returning, so long as she is done right. & this show does a lot of things right, so I have faith they could sell a lot of people on it.

Yeah, it's that one.

I liked the concept of the original Venus...she just had poor execution.

Personally, whatever she mutates into, I'm curious how she comes across whatever said critter influence is. I'm not expecting anything too outrageous unless Nick has some good way to explain it.

Karai.. just some advice.. skip the local petting zoo for a while. :P

That description probably fits me to a T! I Couldn't stand Venus, even as a kid, because the idea of a fifth turtle at all regardless of gender seemed so LAZY creatively. I hope they never attempt it again. It's enough trying to slog through decent fan material that doesn't feature some "special fifth turtle" OC.

I more or less read it as comical exaggeration. Because I would hope nobody is actually mentally traumatized from a badly-written fictional character. This is the internet, our favourite way of communication is hyperbole.

Agreed; I have no problem with the idea of female Turtles - I just didn't like Venus as a character because she was boring, and I didn't like the guys having their back-story changed to fit her in. If it hadn't been for the back-story change, I don't think she would've gotten off on the wrong foot with nearly as many fans.

True, but Cubed says he's traumatized so often - over white Shredder, over the new movie, over NM... and probably many more that I can't remember right now :lol: Perhaps I'm just not interpreting his tone correctly.

...Cubed, care to weigh in on whether you're being serious here? ;)

You too huh? I hate that.

Anyway, I don't care for Venus, or another turtle added to the team. I don't even care for Karai in this show, since she's Miwa anyway. So whatever, mutate her. I just hope if she does get mutated, she isn't made the fith member of the group and sticks around.

I'd like her to not be a mutant for long.

But if she does mutate for awhile, or even if not, I want her there, just not one of the 4. I hate the idea of adding a 5th member. When they quoted slash as being the 5th turtle i was really dreading him. Luckily they handled him well. Maybe if Karai is demutated she could live with April or something

A stint as Venus (if temporary) would certainly acclimate her better to the plight of her other brothers and her dad... then being forced to be in the same boat for a bit.

I definitely wouldn't want to see it be permanent.

Well the answer is now revealed.

And... (warning this spoiler tag contains images from "Vengeance is Mine")

The idea of those two living together with their current level of animosity is hilarious to me. :lol: Though it could be a nice way of showing them slowly becoming friends and letting bygones be bygones.

I can't see Karai wanting to live with anyone but Splinter though.

Her new mutation looks great, suits her personality to a T!

So it's official that she definitely mutates, but does it affect her the way it did Mutagen Man? You know, turning on the turtles? Did Karai turn on the turtles or attack them in whatever her mutated form is? I'm not looking at the spoilers. Did she turn on Shredder? Does it look like she'll join the turtles and Splinter?