Do you think the Nick series is using too many Fred Wolf elements?
 

I respect the people who like the OT series. However, the Nick show needs to develop on its own, and I don't think adding OT elements and pandering to the OT fanbase is doing it any justice. The show is adding WAY too many Fred Wolf elements. I don't want to have to quit the show. I think the show should be more original, with new, distinctive storylines.

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No....no I don't.

Yes I agree.

Would you have complained if they were also taking elements from the 4kids series and comics?

Because... they did!

We have the Purple Dragons, Foot Clan, Karai, the entire TCRI/Trans-dimesional portal stuff and Kraang/Utrom Droids all coming straight from 4kids, which in turn came from the comics.

On top of that, there were so many characters in Nick that resemble closer to their 4kids counterpart than Fred Wolf's, such as:

- Raphael (being a hot head, hates bugs)
- Casey Jones (younger but still...)
- Baxter Stockman & Mousers
- Leatherhead (origin and look)
- Shredder (being a serious threat)

Also the upcoming Leo one-shot/North Hampton arc is going to be an obvious nod to the 4kids/comics version. And I'm sure it will be followed by the Return to New York arc after that.

By the time the Triceratons and possibly Fugitoid, Usagi, Foot Elite etc. appear, I guess people will start complaining that Nick is taking too many elements from 4kids :tlol:

I personally think it's completely ok for Ciro to reimagine characters, story arcs and other elements from ANY past series or media as long as it makes sense and adds value to the Nick show. Nick owns the entire franchise anyway and would do what it needs to do to make it better. The combination of new and old elements so far has been awesome!

Literally all of the "4kids" stuff you listed is not original or exclusive to the 4kids series. It's Mirage.

Pulling from 4kids would mean using 4kids characters: Bishop, Hun, etc, or plots, such as the Battle Nexus, Ninja Tribunal, & so on.

& Raph being angry, Shredder being tough, the inclusion of Casey Jones?!... C'mon, really? I don't think I've ever seen anyone reaching that hard. :tlol:

The only thing that is directly from 4kids is that Karai is Shredder's daughter, granted it's done much differently.

Yes, they do!
They really shouldn't revive every dumb character from the past like Pizzaface combined with new crap like alien-ripoff squirrels. Especially since there are far more interesting characters then those in other TMNT media. Hell, even Fred Wolf has a ton of much better characters, I'd rather see then Muckman or Mutagen Man. (tho at least Mutagen Man turned out good)

Yes I did acknowledge the 4kids stuff in turn came from the comics. I know that.

And I'm not "reaching hard" to say the inclusion Casey Jones is something. You got me wrong. I meant to say the character has a closer resemblance to 4kids/Mirage than OT. Being Raphael's rival turned buddy and all. You gotta give me that! :tlol:

And since you mentioned Ninja Tribunal - does Mystic Ninja Turtle ring any bells? With each turtle tied to a certain nature's element, no?

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Weren't people complaining before when the Nick toon tried doing its own spin as it is?

The whole April O'Neil thing, for example...

No, I don't think they are.

Yes, it was clever callbacks before, but now it's kind of ridiculous. I wish I could see more Nick-exclusive things, since I liked those so far.

I like the callbacks to the wolf series as it seems they are targeting kids who have parents that grew up watching and buying the 87 stuff. The 87 show was a huge hit so I get why they would go back to that well and reuse many elements from it plus I think a lot of it is fan service to the older crowd which is kinda cool when you think about it.

Depending how long this show runs we may start seeing some of the 4kids elements pop up but maybe they are not using them because that series was so recent. Plus I believe Ciro grew up watching the 87 toon so it makes sense he would used that as a template to build on. I do agree though they should make some more new characters for this series.

Yes. At first, it was cute/clever, but now I'm finding myself groaning whenever there is a reference.

I'd like them to use more original concepts. TigerClaw was a nice start.

EDIT: Considering the target audience either doesn't know or barely knows about the old characters, it's semi-justified.

Yes. Far too many. to me, it's starting to seem too much like a OT Remake.

I wish they would take some elements from the 2003 series as well to balance it out abit.

This is a franchise with 30 years of characters and stories, take advantage of it. Regardless of what incarnation it is, as long as it's fresh and it's own take.

Hell, the fact that they are even able to come up with as much original material they have is impressive enough with everything that's been used in TMNT.

what book is that?

They've done enough to keep original it's at least not a super copy paste, but I do feel like they've completely neglected or altered their original concepts for some reason like Xever and Bradford. Xever is pretty much now a joke this season and Bradford got double mutated and changed to Rahzar.

Too much?... Yeah kind of. The problem is not that it has nods to the Fred Wolf cartoon but that said nods seem a bit forced or shallow and end being pointless easter eggs as a result rather than something improving the series itself.

As some examples, renaming the Utroms "Kraang" is pointless and when the Technodrome shows up, it does so without explaination nor foreshadowing. It's also just dubbed the Technodrome by the Turtles out of nowhere midway through season 2.

I dislike the Fred Wolf series but I have no problem with elements of it being used if it's used well. Like the Nick show, the IDW comics jumble Krang, the Utroms and the Technodrome but does so far better. Krang co-exist with the Utroms without any forced compromise, he has a clear goal in mind and the Technodrome does not just pop up out of nowhere, it has been established from the start. I feel that the IDW series use the Fred Wolf elements to it's benefit while the Nick show just do it to please shallow 30 year olds who don't like the show because it's new... Or they lack the the talent to make it meaningful, either way it's not well done.

As for too much, let's just say this:
Turtles Forever was the finale of the 2003 series after 7 seasons and also featured the Mirage turtles and glimpses of many other versions.
The Nick show decided to have two cameos of the Fred Wolf turtles midway through season 2 and might make an even bigger crossover soon...

Speaking of the 2003 series, it does seem like all you would have to do is introduce any of Hun, Bishop or the Battle Nexus and it's fans would be more pleased with the easter eggs.

Especially Bishop. I'm surprised they haven't given him a cameo , or something similar (like how the Krang are more or less, impersonating Vernon from the OT) they could have a Bishop like FBI agent investigating the mysterious disappearance of Bradford and other citizens of the area, or trying to get to bottom of the alien invasion and what not.

I could have sworn Kirby told them it was called the Technodrome. The naming wasn't random.

A little bit, wish the guy would stop acting like the 2003 series never happened and used some elements or characters from it,.

I do like the new spins on it though. I'd love it if they brought that one ninja girl back in this show too but alas.

Well Ok, now I've skimmed episode 25. The Turtles listen in on communication and hear of the Technodrome, so I was wrong. Still, it does seem like it's the first mention of the thing, so it does feel like it's a little late to introduce the concept of "Giant golf ball with an eye" after 24 episodes without much foreshadowing.

Maybe, but the show is giving them a new spin instead of just rehashing them.

Most superhero cartoons just use existing characters and give their own spin to them. The reason why OT have so many new characters is because they have very limited source material to work with. Using OT characters doesn't make this show an OT remake. Every Spider-Man and Batman cartoons use the same characters over and over again but you don't see people calling the newer versions a remake of the older ones.

Nah, doesn't really bother me if they want to mix in the old with some new elements if they're doing their own take on it and making a good show with it. I mean Bebop may be showing up, but it's certainly a new take on the character making them quite a bit different.

You have a good point. A batman cartoon must have some of the rogues gallery. Same with Spider-Man. How many different cartoon versions do we have of the joker and venom by now?

How ironic that the 4kids series didn't use OT characters (prior to Turtles Forever), and now Nick won't use 4kids characters.

Funnily enough casuals might think Karai, Triceratons and Fugitoid are 4kids characters even though they're Mirage.

I find it more ironic that the 2k3 is a rather forgotten show since it never featured OT characters and this new show is all over the place because it does bring back OT characters.

Like I said on a topic long ago, this show is making a bigger impact by giving fans what they wanted.

But I don't want countless mutants. I want humans.

I figured it's making a bigger impact because it's on a bigger network.

Yeah, but human toys don't sell that well, mutants do.

No question about that. Although I think being the better show helps too.

Eh, that's a matter of opinion. I still think season 1-3 of the 2k3 toon is some of the best TMNT ever shown. Nick was promising in the first season, but season 2, except for maybe 3 or 4 episode, I thought mostly sucked. Just my opinion of course.

LOL, what? The majority of Season 2 was great. The only weak episodes was the Kraang Conspiracy, the Pizzaface one, and the Larp episode.

Seriously, where is this nonsense about Season 2 being bad come from?

Nick is unique enough to come up with their own storytelling and characters.

In addition to that, they treat us occasionally with some remakes of OT characters.

I see no problem with that; in fact I commended them. But more importantly, I praise and thank God for this blessed gift of a show. Season 1 & 2 has been the best show in TMNT so far.

I like the 2k3 toon too but when I rewatched the entire series, I find myself getting bored in some episodes. The filler episodes are almost unwatchable for me. I don't know but i feel like the show lacks the charm that the OT and the Nick series have, it feels so dull.
Yeah, I honestly believe that Season 2 is much better than Season 1.

That's how I feel about the Nick toon at times. Bored. But the trailer shown this week at comic con looks very promising. But I will say, I enjoy Nick's Donnie more than the 2k3. Maybe if they beef up Raph some more, I would enjoy it even more, but right now, it's doing what I think 2k3 did that was bad, giving Raph the shaft. But, it's still new, and I will see how things play out.

Some of the 4kids filler episodes were rather dire, but some were also really good. Its the same for any show.

I would not call the Fred Wolf cartoon "charming". If anything it's far more boring than the 2003 show since it's basically just the same thing over and over again with very little effort put into it.

As for season 2 of the Nick show, let's just say that it might have been a better idea to develop some minor characters rather than spending entire episodes introducing even more minor characters, introducing unimportant/easily solved plotlines and letting the two major villain factions do evil things just for the sake of doing evil things. Seriously, there's something like 15 characters who are either barely in any episodes or don't seem to serve any purpose, Kirby's mutation barely had anything to do with the plot and was too easily resolved. And the Kraang just seems to do nothing sensical, just generic bad guy stuff because they're villains.

I feel exactly the same regarding 2k3. Too much magic, dull alien/planetary adventures, annoyingly obnoxious Casey Jones, Raph sounding like a 50 year old chain smoker instead of a teenager... The list is endless.

Despite the flaws, I especially love what they did with Miyamoto Usagi. Absolutely love him; his demeanor, his physical appearance and his chemistry with Leo. :tlove:

Nope, I love it. It's so awesome to see something and be like: ''Oh, that's...!''