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What are your views on this quote relating to homophobia and masculinity?
I read this on another site a couple of years back. Obviously googling the quote will find the page, but it did make me laugh. Do you think there's any truth to it?
"Homophobic abuse can be when you accuse someone of not being manly. It's a very real issue that isn't understood well enough in this country, when you accuse someone of not being as manly as you, you're being homophobic. It's not hard to understand." People accused the guy of talking nonsense, but if you think about it a lot of males use 'gay' as a pejorative in an effort to position themselves above the target in terms of manliness. Is it as much of a nonsense quote as it first appears? Certainly I've seen the term 'gay' used in this manner both online and offline. |
The meaning of the word "gay" is slowly dissolving. It is because culture in general has always looked down upon the concept because of how we are raised and taught. The quote is silly but the hatred is real.
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It is often the mindset of homophobic misogynistic asshats, that if a man acts in any way effeminate or like a woman, he must be one of dem gays.
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The quote is quite silly at first glance, but to be fair he did back it up with some evidence, showing how 'sexuality' is a social construct and explaining that, to some people, being a 'man' is as much about being turned off by other men as it is about being attracted to women. I think there is some discussion to be had over the quote, although it's obviously poorly worded and a bit too strongly put. There are a lot of guys out there who think that insulting another guy by calling him 'gay' or 'queer' or whatever is insulting his masculinity and positioning him as inferior and in return themselves as alpha. I'd assume that's where the sentiment comes from. But yeah, you could argue either way. |
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Interestingly the guy was mocked by posting a photoshop photo of the quote. In the photo, a very effeminate soccer player named Fernando Torres was depicted and there was a speech bubble next to his name saying the quote. So the guy's quote was sort of proved, since the posters mocked his words by referring to an effeminate man. Essentially they were mocking Torres's femininity. I will try and find the photo on my hard drive because I saved it at the time. |
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Here's the photo. They were essentially taking the p!ss out of the quote by referring to a feminine player. As I say, that can be construed as proving the guy's point, or it could just be argued to be innocent fun. It depends.
I laughed at this originally but the more I contemplated it the more sinister it seemed. |
At first glance of the quote, it seemed confusing, but after reading it a second time, I can see where this person is coming from. He definitely has a point in the quote about how a lot of men will look down on others for not being manly or doing manly things and saying that a man is "gay" because of it when that could not be the case. Just goes to show that there are some mean people in the world.
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You may want to check out a doco called "Tough Guise - Violence, Media and the Crisis in Masculinity". It has some very interesting things to say about masculine identities and how masculinity as a socially constructed behavior has been shaped by modern pop culture.
The full doco is 82 minutes; you may have to search a little to find the complete version as a lot of sites often only have the first 7 or 8 minutes. |
I'd love to check it out if I could ****ing find it anywhere. Where is it?
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Here ya go, handsome. Don't say I never gave ya nothin'. :D
This is the current edition; pretty much the same as the original version but with a couple of tweaks. The original was actually done specifically as segmented educational videos to be shown in schools. |
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gay originally meant happy or upbeat/carefree. When I was younger it was used to describe something as "stupid" |
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Damn right I'm handsome! I'll watch this later tonight, thanks a ton. |
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Is the latter term used that often? I've never heard a Brit actually use it before.
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Hm, it makes me wonder how gay guys over there feel about it...
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I mean you could say that anything could remind them of a pejorative. Someone could say 'that went up in a poof of smoke' and even though it's used innocently in that context, it might brings back some harsh memories for gay men upon hearing that. Some black people in North America might feel uncomfortable when someone talks about spades in the garden. |
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Being gay and effeminate should not be consider the same thing. Sexual identity and sexual orientation don't always go in hand in hand with each other. Being woman is not just solely defined by being attracted to men and there more to manhood then being attracted to women.
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Yes, there is some homophobia in the UK, but I've never seen anything like the reaction that the Top Gear guys got in Alabama after doing each other's cars up in gay slogans and colours...
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Well, it's related to football. You know how sports are viewed as something stereotypically masculine/manly. So it's not surprising at all that a player who people don't like and who acts a bit whiny or likes to dive gets labeled as "gay"(aka weak). I don't think people actually believe Fernando Torres is gay, though. But anyway, homosexuals are still very stereotyped ad being weak and "wanting to be girls". Many people would describe a homosexual male as a "flower" or "someone who talks with an annoying lisp". The most homophobic types actually believe there's no such thing as strong and courageous homosexuals, which is retarded since there's plenty of cowardly straight guys.
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I've heard another slur against gays is calling them "fairies" also. I've heard that term a time or two before.
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I'm not an car enthusiast, but I absolutely love Top Gear. The real Top Gear, the other versions not so much. the humor and banter between Clarkson, Hammond and May
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I've mainly seen it as male posturing and little more then a dong swinging contest. Sure there is some dislike of gays, but the main root of it is the ultimate insult of being compared to a woman. Gays are 'not-quite-there' as far as masculinity goes, but the guys know that it's still another man they are talking to. But ever notice that? The gay man is not quite there, so he must be close to the level of a *eww* woman.
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Well there's being compared to a woman, and then there's also the chance that they might be treated the way that they themselves treat women.
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Nah, they certainly don't think guys like F Torres are gay, it's just homophobia and a way to belittle someone. And yeah, it's amazing there seems to be some sort of link between homosexuality and weakness or softness for homophobes. As you say, there are plenty of straight men who have no guts. It's probably due to a misunderstanding of 'camp' men. Quote:
You think so? I don't always think of it that way. But it does make sense since there are plenty of sexists and misogynists about. It still seems strange in a way because men love women physically, but some still see it as acceptable to assign negative attributes to girls/women and, as you say, imply that gay men are 'closer' to women than they are to being real men. The whole thing is fvkced up. A lot of it is what I talked about earlier - a desire to come across as alpha and manly and the more I think of it the more the original quote is sensible. I know I had a bit of a preoccupation with masculinity for a long time since I'm quite a boyish person. But I never felt that calling other men gay would make me seem more manly. I find the whole idea pathetic to be honest. Clearly major sings of insecurity. |
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Personally I never have a problem showing my feelings and I don't feel insecure about it. I'm lucky that I never had that problem because I know that there are many men out there who are bottling things up because they're scared their mates will take the mickey out of them. There are some very backward areas and societies out there. |
So Penny, I came in here to watch that doco, and son of a bitch it was removed.
Know any other links? |
... damn.
Leave it with me, I'll do some hunting! |
Alrighty. I won't procrastinate on watching it this time. Wonder why it's so difficult to find, though...
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I'll just PM you a link; if it's getting taken down everywhere, I don't want to get the boards in trouble by putting a link to it here.
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