If the TMNT franchise ever dies...
 

Leo656 wrote a post which made for very uncomfortable reading. He said that he thinks the franchise will die in future if Viacom doesn't freshen it up. Essentially meaning they need to make it more mature in theme, or at least create a branch of the franchise which is more adult.

So if the turtles ever cease to exist - no more shows, no more films, no more comics, no more toys etc - how will you cope with it? It would be devastating to many of our lives, I expect.

By now there's enough TMNT material to rewatch or re-read for a lifetime that it doesn't matter if we never get anything new after the Nick era ends:

- Original cartoon (193 episodes)

- 4kids cartoon (157 episodes and Turtles Forever)

- Nick cartoon (probably over 150 something episodes by the time it ends)

- 5 movies with a 6th on the way

- Mirage with every series combined comes out to nearly 300 issues

- Archie TMNT is over 100 issues with all specials

- IDW TMNT will likely hit over 100 issues when it ends


This is more than enough to rewatch or re-read even if the franchise ends after the Viacom era.

I knew someone would say that. However, the point is that we always want to see new takes on the characters. Clearly we will be watching and reading all that has gone before no matters what happens in future, but it's great to have fresh iterations & interpretations.

I dunno, TMNT isn't like Batman or Spiderman that needs to be constantly rebooted and last 70 years.

I'm sure there will be more incarnations after the Nick era, but I also wouldn't mind if the franchise takes a 10 year break after it ends just to recharge.

A hiatus is fine. Just not a permanent stop.

Believe it or not, I feel the same way as Cubed that we'd still be Fine. I already had "accepted" that it was over by 2000. I swore this thing was Dead. (Keep in mind I'd literally only had the internet for, like, 5 minutes. I swore I was the only person who still cared.) I didn't know the 2003 cartoon was coming, so obviously I'm much, much happier it WASN'T dead, but by 2000 it had been years since anything TMNT was relevant and I hadn't talked to anyone about it in anything other than, "Hey, remember that?" for a long, long... LONG time. My wife was the first person I met who was still REALLY into it, not just, "Eh, the movie's alright" and that's all they wanted to do with it anymore. Lucky me. :)

But yeah, we would have long conversations about and watch old VHS tapes of Ninja Turtles, but it was still all "Remember when...?" and "I wonder if they'll ever do anything with it again." We were still, like, 5 minutes from 80s Nostalgia really being a thing, yet, for those of you who were either not around or still in diapers, bound to be a couple of 'em reading this. :lol: The closest thing we had to any 80s property getting a "revival", was when Toys R Us briefly re-released a handful of the old He-Man toys. I don't think anyone predicted that, for the next 15 years, we'd be literally drowning in "Nostalgia".

So that's why I thought it was already dead, and was already accepting of it. That's actually why I wrote my first (and only completed) fic, because there were literally No New TMNT Stories being told and my (then-girlfriend, now-) wife wanted to read a new one, so I wrote one. Now we have even more stuff, though. I would prefer it if TMNT one day becomes an "Ever-green (Pun Kind Of Intended)" property like Superman and Batman. That's my hope.

But, IF that doesn't happen, we've still been pretty spoiled. We've got plenty to keep us busy until the end of time. And, of course, people would always get bored and keep themselves amused with fanfic. :) I'd just prefer TMNT doesn't slide into being a "drag it out and shake it off every 15-20 years for a Nostalgia Pop" kind of thing. TMNT deserves a better fate than "Hacksaw" Jim Duggan does, for cryin' out loud. :lol:

If anything the Nick revival happened too quickly.

The 4kids cartoon ended in 2009, and the Nick show started in 2012 only 3 years later. The IDW comic also started in 2011 only 1 year after Mirage put out their final Tales issue.

This. & there will always be fan-comics, fan-fics, etc. to soak up.

What happened to Dawn of the Ninja? There have only been two chapters. Did the guys lose interest?

They probably lost interest, or lack of funds.

I enjoyed the first couple of chapters. Is MNT: Gaiden still going? Been years since I read that. Obscure Zodiac.

Anything in this world is not permanent, but I feel TMNT still are kicking and are still gonna be around for a long time, what with the recent excellent movie release and Nicktoon. :)

Yeah, Obscure Zodiac/Tiger Fog is still doing the comic

True, I think there's plenty life left in the old turtles yet. The topic is hypothetical, though.

That must be abput 8 or 9 years it's going, yes?

I still have faith it won't die and WB will pick it up...one day... BUT if worse comes to worse I'd rather see it sold off to a Japanese Company. It might not ever see a live action movie or tv series that's more serious but at least it will be given the freedom it deserves in an animated sense as Japan would not hesitate in doing a more mature anime and mangas as well as kids versions. Hell, I'd even look forward to the 'reverse dub' with American actors.

Yes, I was thinking that anime would be a great compromise for the property. You're the second person I've seen suggest it today, so there are plenty of us thinking along those lines. Anime has no constraints.

Also, the it's for kids stigma doesn't exist in Japan. I remember riding the trains there a few years ago and seeing men and women between 20-60 with mangas and even 3DS's. It's just in the culture there and what a more fitting place for the turtles to end up in then their 'actual story origin' mother land :tcool:

Very true.

Going to sleep now. I hope this thread grows while I'm asleep.

If the current owners decide to shelve it indefinitely, they better aught to be open to selling should someone make them an offer. Would rather they were a perpetual foster child of companies and move on at some point if the current company decided it was done paying attention to them.

Yes, there is plenty of media to continue to enjoy if the franchise called it quits. At the same time though, that's like looking at photos of old friends, it's great and all and grateful to have those mementos to remember those times with them, but it's not the same as still having them around.

(Noooo... no anime please... lol)

It came close to death at the end of the 2k3 toon. And then, suddenly, Nick/Viacom acquire it out of the blue. It was kinda sad at the time knowing the turtles could be near their end and most people outside of a few more "hardcore" fans didn't know or care about it.

Since Nick/Viacom acquired it, I began to believe that TMNT is gonna live for a long time like many other iconic franchises. If it ever dies, though? Well, I'll be a bit sad to see a big part of my childhood and my favorite franchise dying just like that. But on the other hand, many good things come to an end. And like others have said already, the franchise is gonna leave a hell of a history behind it that would take quite sometime for a new fan to watch everything.

It's possible for the TMNT franchise to die but I don't really think it would matter much if it did.

All good things must come to an end, as they say. If we were to in a couple of years see the end of TMNT that would not really be much of a big deal, TMNT will still have existed and we will still have some level of access to it (I would assume). I have not watched Firefly, but I guess any Firefly fan would tell you that they would much rather want Firefly to have had it's short run, rather than for it to never have existed in the first place.

Still I doubt that TMNT will ever truly disappear forever, maybe it will be gone for a decade or so before someone decides to dust it off again.

Go watch "Attack on Titan".



Something as epic as that would be awesome for the franchise. But alas all we got a wacky tmnt anime... wtf robots.

Anime done well that isn't OTT is damn good. You'd just have to accept that there would be a OTT kids version as well. But imagine a more serious anime with good writing where the turtles are older dealing with the actual reality of being a mutant turtle in a human world (Japan know the theme of otherness and isolation very well) AND they get to use their weapons properly :tgrin:

I'd at least like to see TMNT last until it's first generation of fans is them/ourselves dying out, is that too much to ask? lol

Although someday when it really is gone for good, world won't even realize how big of a loss it is in various ways. Such creativity and uniqueness, being underdogs in both story and pop culture fame, being simply the joke between aspiring comic artists and symbolism that the little guy can not only make it but what succeeds may be entirely unexpected.



Where anime is concerned, as great as older Turtles with more serious stories and good writing would be.. sorry, it's the art/animation style(s) typical of anime that I don't care for.

Fair enough...agree to disagree :tsmile:

I'm on Team Fanfic, myself - the options are pretty much limitless in terms of tone and where you want to see the characters go. If they never made anything new in the TMNT franchise again, I could still cope just fine as long as I had fanfic.

But anime is not much different from OT and 2k3 style...:ohwell:

2k12 toon, eventhough it's cgi, has very heavy anime influence moreso than ever i.e. sweat drop, big head when mad, angry eyes, etc. So to be put off by anime is just odd.

Well I can't expect anime fans who may look for similarities to understand why it looks different to someone else. Sorry to hear you find it unacceptable and "odd" to not see it as anime.

As LeoRaph said

But we digress, this thread is not about anime...

It did happen in a hiatus for three and a half years winter '98 to late Fall 2002. After Next Mutation was decided to be just one single season and the promotion and begining of toy line for the 2003 cartoon. VHS tapes were few and far between with Ebay in its early years and we had the Ring of Green which is all. A dark time indeed that was filled with fan fiction and watching the same 35% of the '87 cartoon over and over that had been released. It will never happen again due to every episode of the '87 cartoon and two thirds of the '03 cartoon with internet streaming to finish it out. The Nick series should be complete as well. Then there is your choice of comic series to read through. I am glad we don't have to go through that again. It was a time I and others thought their favorite TV show was gone for good and it was just an unfortunate rest between eras.

Continue to go back to the Mirage books and encourage others to read them in whatever form they're available.

Basically the way I interact with it now, but without the niggling curiosity/urge to check in on new parts of the franchise every couple months.

It depends on how it "ends". I was ready to let go of TMNT and move on after Turtles Forever, but I ended up falling in love with the Viacom era stuff too lol.

I don't think it will ever die. There will always be some licensee that will want to make some money off the brand. I doubt Viacom will say no to making money any way they can. If someone else comes along and flashes a high number, Viacom would probably sell off the property anyway. Everything can be bought for the right price.

Maybe someday (I assume no doubt long from now), TMNT might exist within "public domain" laws and be free for use to any fans with the cash and ability to create a movie, series, comic, etc., without the legal hurdles. That might be pretty cool if fans had it in their own hands to collectively and legally continue it themselves. (I mean stuff outside of the fan fiction and art that already happens.) Basically becoming a franchise and characters owned by the fans.

Imagine a movie like 2014 being made like that, film makers who legitimately care about TMNT independently connecting with others online and pulling together a team of fellow fans who could provide various needed talents, skills, and funding.

My two cents...


I don't think it will ever fully die as I'm sure we'll never go too long without new merchandise or a comic book series and an attempted revival whenever a new generation is coming in but in terms of mainstream media unless something is done to really get people interested I actually foresee it being mothballed in the not-too-distant future.

But we've got a movie that's getting a sequel.

The movie series is where the big money should be. Not just in terms of takings from the box office but in a being the tent pole for the whole franchise and while it's made a profit and outperformed the lowered bar a lot of people had for it but it's not that much really.

I would argue Paramount feels the same. They are more or less indebted to to a sequel but if they were that pleased with the movie and confident about a sequel we'd be getting Leibesman back not a new director alongside claims they want to go in another direction. They may as well be holding up a sign saying "we know a lot of y'all hated it but come to the next one, it'll be better we promise"

So that's a good sign? To me I can't say I see it that way right now. Based on the takings and general audience reaction to this years movie I don't think Paramount has much faith in any sequel to make big money otherwise we'd be getting a bigger director and a very clear picture of what this new direction is. While I', sure the next movie will have a distinctly different feel to the current one right now it seems the important changes are cutting down costs. Hiring a cheaper director and one known for doing things on a slim budget etc. It all looks like they are trying to maximize what they expect to be a slim profit margin as opposed to shooting for a bigger one.

Unless something happens to get people really interested in a TMNT movie and wash away any stigma they may have based on this years feature I don't see a long series of movies.

Who cares we've got the Nick cartoon and that's great.

I actually enjoy the current animated series a lot. It's great that they are shooting for a long run and laudable they seem to want the show to grow up with it's audience....but it can't last forever. Not only will storywise will it reach a natural conclusions but eventually the boys and girls will get to the age they will be hooked on other things like each other and TMNT may seem too kiddie for them until they're old enough to feel nostalgia.

Of course there's always the possibility of a fourth animated series and wave of TMNT stuff for the generation after and that's great but the whole lather, rinse repeat cycle can only be done so many times without noticeable progress.

So what's your answer Mr Know-it-all?

I don't necessarily agree that the franchise as a whole needs to be targeting at a more mature audience but rather it should have different branches aimed at different audiences but always keep in mind there will be other interested parties.

In fact I think I think that's what Nickledeon aimed for. The current animated series is very much a childrens show but it's not only cognizant of of it's adult audience but of the franchises rich history. In other words it's a childrens show that can be appreciated by adults.

Despite the revisionist history by it's apologists I firmly believe the movie was made in the opposite. It was made for an older audience but cognizant that there will be younger viewers and trying appeal to them also but they failed. Regardless that's what the movies should be.

That's the rather sad part of all of this. It did look a while ago like we were making progress but it looks like a case of one step forward, two steps back.

Very true, its quite possible Viacom will sell TMNT to someone else after they feel they made all the money they can from it and are done with it. Probably won't happen for a good decade from now though, since Nick will air the cartoon in reruns long after its cancelled.

Honestly had the 4kids or Nick era's not have happened, its quite possible TMNT would have died sans the Mirage comics in the 2000's, which came to an end to.

But now that we've gotten two revivals its safe to say its been too ingrained in culture and comic book franchises that it'll always be brought back somehow.

It's just an observation there's no need to get upset, goodness gracious.

Not taking any sides here but nick definitely uses elements of anime and I always thought visually 2K3 was a hybrid of anime and western style animation (minus the typical emoting stuff :twink:). Either way 2K3 always had an eastern visual feel which worked whether it was influenced by anime or not.

It probably won't die. And if it did? I have tons of stuff I never played/read so that would keep me busy. I'd probably move on with my life too.

I think for the time being we're well past the point where the brand is going to suffer. At it's worst we've had "niche" eras, but seldom do we have a period in the wilderness, when we do, it's usually because bigger things are in store by a year or two.

I'd be sad if TMNT were never brought back, but I have a feeling that won't happen. Even if the Nick show ends, I'm sure someone else will buy the property and we may get another show in there somewhere. I was sad when the 2K3 series ended and really wasn't sure where the franchise was going to go. When I heard Nick bought it, I was leery because I wasn't sure if the show was going to be good. I gave it a chance, and I'm glad to say I love it and am glad I can continue to enjoy it and write fan fic in that universe.

But if it were to die off, I'd be okay. After Red Sky ended, I got interested in other things, so the same thing might happen again, and there's always fan fiction to keep me going. You can do any number of things with that.