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What would you do with a reboot, with a catch...
Okay, I know this has been asked before, but I thought I'd toss it out there again with a little catch attached. Let's say you got to do your own TMNT reboot, and you get to set your own themes and tone for the film. What would you do? But unlike the last thread, there's a catch...
No retreading the original movie, and no adapting Mirage 1#. No flashbacks to Saki and Yoshi, no first meeting with April or Casey. Shredder can be the villain, but he's already at war with the turtles. You have to start with the tmnt already in place, and no 'cycle of vengeance' themes- you have to move the story ahead, not track over old ground. This doesn't have to be continuation of anything, though it can be if you wish. I wanna see what both movie fans and movie haters alike come up with... |
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to be fair..if thats the "catch" then its not a reboot....its a just a sequel with a new team
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If it's a reboot, that means you're starting over. Brand new. If you have Shredder and Yoshi(either dead or as Splinter), you have to set up why they(or Splinter and Shredder) hate each other. Which include flashbacks. Or, hell, you start the movie off with a full on telling of when Saki killed Yoshi and Shen and Splinter escaped, or like the nick toon where Yoshi is trying to start a new life in America after Saki killed Shen in Japan. That's not been done before. Then, after Yoshi or Splinter and the Turtles are mutated, you jump ahead 15 years and start the movie. This whole entire universe hinges on the blood feud between Saki and Yoshi. If you're starting with a brand new movie, that must be included. |
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I understand the not wanting to see the turtles origin in full depth again...but you cant just skip it completely its a major part of the story. this sounds more like what Terminator 3, Jurassic Park 3, Batman Returns and Batman and Robin were movies with new team in the same franchise following the original movie the term reboot wouldnt apply to this idea as youd still be tied to the previous attachment |
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Really? the fugitoid arc, baxter and the mousers, the four fragments story from season 2 of the OT, the battle nexus from 4kids, future shark from archie so many good stories with no ties to the origin that could be adapted with minor continuity tweaking...
...and you MUST do the first story again! :roll: I'm sorry, but :roll: |
And every single one of those has a "Cycle of Vengeance" component to it.
I'm still stuck on the parameters of the exercise. I mean, you tell us we can't retread ground, but we're more than welcome to continue what's already been started...which would kind of require retreading ground. Again: The only way to win, is not to play. |
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because the is how to story starts Krypton has to explode, Peter has to be bit by a spider, Waynes parents must be killed, Banner must get hit by radioactive waves, Rogers gets Super soldier ,Optimus and the Autobots land on earth they are parts of the story that must be covered to some extent you cant just start in the middle of an arc and expect everyone to follow...especially ones you are suggesting...remember you are looking at it from the eyes of a fan, true we know the story ins in outs and even if you start in the middle..with already established characters..you have to go back and tell how it happened..thats what 2k3 did |
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Sure - there are other stories to tell. But you don't build upward before you've laid the foundation, do you? The characters, their future plots, and their world are all informed by and rely on how it all began. That's why it's so important to establish themes and have a strong backstory. It's what makes it all hold together and gives it weight. Hell, it's what makes it an actual story and not just a bunch of zany stuff just... happening. |
It's simple, take the formula of The Dark Knight, and apply it here.
The Turtles have been fighting crime for a year or two, and you introduce a new villain who's been terrorizing the city for the last few weeks or months. I want to see them take from the original and have the Foot recruiting younger members, or introduce Krang, and take from the nick cartoon, and have Krang provide cyborg Foot Soldiers. I want the Turtles to USE their weapons, and having them kill robots is the way to go because they can't show Leo and Raph stabbing people. I would maybe even have a villain like Tigerclaw for this movie, have him show up and reveal towards the end he's from Dimension X and introduce Krang and have a full scale invasion to end the movie and have a cliff hanger ending. |
but even Batman begins showed the origin of Bruces rise to Batman...His parents death
sure it wasnt the first thing we saw and it wasnt long and drawn out but we saw it |
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Which begins with Hamato Yoshi and Oroku Saki's blood feud. Which we've only seen in flashbacks or, in the case of the new movie, not at all. So if it's all the same to you, I'd like to see THAT done full justice in a modern movie before we move on to friggin Future Shark. |
one problem with that theory: TMNT 2007-MAYBE CONTINUATION, MAYBE NOT. we don't know the back story there for certain. and when i said no 'cycle of vengeance' theme, I meant move on from those particular events, not don't bring them up altogether.
But whatever, I give up. |
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Even though everything actually Turtle related they got right. |
its pretty clear 2007 is a continuation...of what is more the question...it can be both movies or 2k3 series..personally i call it the 4th movie rather than a new story...but there is also the prequel comics to it
but its not a stand alone story...and even then 2007 doesnt skip the origin in clearly mentions it at the begining |
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You can certainly show killing in a PG-13 film. Guardians of the Galaxy had zero issue with a ton of killing. Drax killing Korath, Groot impaling multiple soldiers ended up being one of the bigger laughs, Yondu dropped a platoon of soldiers, etc. There's plenty of killing in other PG-13 films, but GOTG was just something that came to mind.
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Or maybe you should be yelling from the mountain top about a Splinter solo flick! Then those dumb turtles won't muck up the story for you. Since it's so effing hard to follow along with if you don't get YOUR precious origin story. You sound like the people who can't like Man of Steel because Pa Kent died in a tornado and not from a heart attack...IT'S NOT THE ORIGIN THAT'S BEEN TOLD 34545345 TIMES MAAAAAAAAN! I NEED TO SEE IT IN THE MOVING PICTURES IN THE NEXT 3 YEARS! THEN IN 10 YEARS I CAN COMPLAIN THAT IT'S BEEN 10 YEARS SINCE I SAW THE ORIGIN OF SPLINTER AND SHREDDER! Quote:
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Your boring cry fests, and failed attempts at insults. |
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With this thread open again, I will just say this, with no offense to anyone; yes, you can make a new TMNT movie, with Baxter or Krang or the rat king as the villain, and not retell the origin story. Just like the 2007 movie say a few lines about their origin at the beginning and move on. There is no good reason to reestablish an origin older fans already know from mirage, 4kids, and the OT, and kids know from the nick cartoon. No. Good. Reason.
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Sure there is, it's called making a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie.
It's having respect for the origins of the franchise, and not just giving lip service to them in order to churn out a hack of a movie to turn a few bucks. Having respect for the subject matter should be first and foremost in one's mind before undergoing an any artistic endeavor. It's clear to me that the only thing that mattered in the making of the Platinum Dunes movie was making money. |
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You could structure the start of a turtles film franchise around the crazy Sci Fi stuff and still get into the rivalry and payoff in future films. Some alterations to my concept for the film would be Splinter tracking down leads to the whereabouts of his Master's killer is attacked by a monster in the sewers. When he doesn't return the young turtles venture out on their own against Splinters orders to track him down. This would lead to an eventual confrontation with the monster, Leatherhead. Now you could go different directions as to why Leatherhead attacked Splinter. I love Leatherhead struggle with his rage, and would certainly be the Leatherhead I would present. He can have completely succumbed to it and be feral therefore the final villain, or he can become an ally to find his family. (The Utroms) In the first case, Splinter learns to trust in his sons, so he tells them why he's training them. (Sets up the foundation for the confrontation in a future film) In the latter, they help him find the Utroms. (Maybe this reveals the alliance between the Shredder and Krang?) I'm really just spit balling ideas for the film and have no clear or coherent conclusion for the second option. |
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I'm not arguing for saving bay's film, I'm arguing for something NEW from turtle movies now! |
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I've never seen Jurassic Park 3, can't comment. I think you meant Batman Forever, because Batman Returns was Tim Burton and Keaton returning. Batman Forever was for the most part a reboot. They had an all new cast, the only roll over was Alfred and Commissioner Gordon. New director, writer etc... Even the city was drastically changed. Batman & Robin is the sequel to Batman Forever, Batman was recast, but for the most part is a sequel. All of those movies that did a soft reboot are beyond terrible. There is just no reason to rehash the origin of the turtles in anyway. I can't stand fanboys who want the movies to be taken directly off the pages of their personal favorite comic or cartoon. That goes for any comic book franchise. Why is it ok for comic books to retell stories in different ways over and over, or a cartoon series tell their own origin, but when a movie is made it HAS to be exactly like *insert favorite origin story*?! Why can't the movie create it's own story? We got the origin we got, it didn't erase the origin you like. Can we please move on now? |
you know what you get when you jump right in adding new characters and not telling the origin story
Next Mutation and i have a guilty "love" of that series, but im not so blind i cant see its flaws but lets be honest NM had no backbone..it relied on its audience knowing where the turtles came from..and yes at the time Turtle mania wasnt over yet..sure it was maybe not as a strong but people knew turtles. Then you have the addition of all these new characters...Venus,Dragonlord..other new villains...that with a proper set up could have been amazing additions to the TMNT world but thats the thing..you need to set up the world before you can add to it or it becomes a Cluster*Fudge* of its own existence as warboss said..you dont have to jump right into it but its elements should be present |
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1. Opens with the death of Tang Shen and Hamato Yoshi 2. Splinter became their pet after the Exile to New York, so he doesn't know who the Foot or the Shredder are beyond the killers of his family. 3. That lack of knowledge drives the general plot without dealing with the conclusion of that rivalry. 4. The lead that breaks through is taking the events from The Passing, which foils a ninja assassination. The ninjas are a Foot ninjas. 5. Now knowing who they're looking for, their new ally Hattori helps track down further leads. This leads to the Purple Dragons. Through them they find the link to the Shredder and the Foot. 6. Splinter explains their mission, and they still have work to do. This closes out the film. In the first option with Leatherhead I presented, the turtles can meet a human ally or two in their hunt for Splinter. It could be Casey Jones and/or Angel because their connections to the Purple Dragons and thus the Shredder would solve the arc of finding Yoshi and Shen ' s killer. (A fight with the PD in the middle could serve as a substitute for The Passing like Leatherhead in the second example) In the second example, the Utroms are the connection to finding the Shredder. Points 1-3 and number 6 (Slight changes to details) remain in both Leatherhead examples, but it breaks your catch to use them. The origin retelling also violates it because in either example because they have to talk about where they came from with their new allies. |
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Also that plot is better to spread out in a tv show over a season, there is too much for a movie. I don't get it when people complain about April being the main protagonist then want he movie to be all about Splinter and Shredder.... |
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Nobody's saying they want "a Splinter movie" - they just want a movie that's actually about something and uses the strongest material we have. |
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That was truly the best course of action. Truly. |
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but splinter is the turtles history
thats like superman with no krypton batmans parents still alive mighty morphin power rangers with no zordon Prime with no megatron parker with no spider bite banner with no radiation |
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Can you do a version without that? Well, yeah, but that's like a sandwich without bread. It just ain't right. |
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The kind of "story" you describe gives the audience no reason whatsoever to care about the characters or their struggle. Sorry, but that completely misunderstands what a story even is. You need more than that. You just do. |
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Reading WarBoss' movie proposal made something POP in my mind. You know something that the 2k3 series did that just NOW dawned on me? They connected for probably the first time the more martial arts aspects of the TMNT and their feud with Shredder and the Sci-fi elements with the Utroms with the creation of Utrom Shredder. Yes, he was probably initially a cheat to make the decapitation in Return to New York pass censors, but it also kinda streamlined the whole origin.
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