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TMNT Volume 5?
"Friends" of Jim Lawson might have read this recent posting on his Facebook about a commission he recently completed, "The Last Scene of TMNT Vol 4."
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.n...42364701_o.jpg In the posting he said this about the piece: Quote:
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I don't even know where to begin.
I like the fact that he let the piece take on so much story as he drew it. I'd love to here what Peter has to say. I'm surprised he hasn't put it up on his blog to discuss it. I feel like aspects of it are heavy handed such as Mikey's attire and need to carry such a large weapon. Also, did Splinter return from the Battle Nexus? I don't like that if so. |
Volume 5 ? Peter and Jim must finish Volume 4 before. This "last page" is perfect to me. Fully consistent with the rest of the story. It's moving but not sad. I don't know how to explain it. Maybe a "Tales of" volume 3 would be a better idea than a volume 5.
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I was pretty surprised to see this show up on facebook today, and equally surprised by some of the choices Jim would have made if he were to wrap up the series on his own.
I agree with Casey that Mike's carrying a big weapon is a bit much. I like the PTSD idea but disagree completely that he'd be prone to further violence. I think he'd go the other way and maybe give up fighting all together, become a pacifist, and focus on art and his family, keeping his little guys away from ninjitsu. I think the gun-toting is completely out of his character. I also think bringing Splinter back would be a huge misstep, as I felt his departure in volume 4 was one of the few elements that series really got right on. It felt very real, very "mirage" - death is permanent and often unexpected, and to bring him back to the real world would be a big disservice to that solid development. With that appearance in the Battle Nexus I wonder if Peter had intended him to come back too? I hope not. The directions for the other 3 turtles seemed appropriate, though he didn't go into much detail. I like the Leo going-solo to develop his astral powers, but doing so without the guidance of Splinter (we basically already saw that happen with the Blind-Sight mini series). And Raph staying relatively unchanged and removed from it all is fitting. I'd like to hear more about Jim's idea of Donatello's trajectory though, aside from just reprogramming a Guardifriend, maybe some more involvement with the utroms and space missions? I'm not even going to comment on the possible Casey-Karai shipping... :tneutral: At one point I said I'd be happy to see Jim just pick up the reigns on volume 4 and finish it on his own without Laird. However, after seeing this I'm not so sure. I guess I didn't love the direction Laird was taking things either... Uh, is Berger currently available? :twink: |
So if I'm reading this right, this is how Jim Lawson would have ended the series if he wrote the comic, but its not how Peter Laird would have ended it, right?
As far as I know PL didn't tell Lawson how he wanted Volume 4 to end, so this is more of a "alternate ending" type thing. |
Well, its interesting to say the least! I'm not too sure about the Casey/Karai pairing or how Mikey turned out. I agree with Funatic, I think he would have gone the opposite direction and swear off all and any violence instead.
I like that Klunk Jr is in it. ^^ |
That's a very tight page. It does feel pretty in tune emotionally with the Mirage vibe. It is sad Laird had to get burnt out or something, but this is nice closure to me for what it is. I wish the Mirage timeline had just continued on in reality instead of a lame reboot...
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This was a piece done at the request of a friend of mine. I'm not sure how much input was Lawson and how much was his idea but I think it really works great. The last few issues dealing with Mikey lead to this. Maybe not as extreme as this "final page" but logically in my opinion, I feel it works well.
I'd love to see Steve color it and I hope that's where it goes next! |
The Casey/Karai pairing is so awful it feels like some disturbing fanfiction from some anime that fangirls write online.
I really hope PL wasn't going down that route. |
I've debated asking Peter, but I'm sure he's seen it and who knows what he thinks.
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Not my ideal ending, even if it is well-drawn. Unfortunately, it does seem that Lawson picked very probable plot points based on what Laird was doing in the last issues of Volume 4. And I don't like them. Mikey, Splinter, Karai... no. And Raph remaining Wolverine is infuriating to me, but again, that's on Laird.
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Let's wait so IDW get there with the TPB then maybe they'll do some kind of sequel. (Im kinda hopping they'll do the same with Adventures)
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Its a neat piece. But I don't like the Karai/Casey thing either (could always assume its April). I'd like to think Casey went back to April after they've "found themselves" while separated. Also the Splinter thing was already on the trajectory change. Wasn't it in one of the recent Vol. 4 issues that dead Splinter's DNA didn't match the Splinter the turtles really knew? So Peter was already on his way changing Splinter's outcome and which one was the real Splinter with this alternate Splinter to fall back on. But that just ruins the drama of Splinter's death if your gonna say it wasn't the turtles' Splinter, "here he is actually". Just ruins the grounded moment in TMNT comics history. Splinter died falling down saying "...my sons...". Now why would alternate Splinter care for these turtles if he had nothing to do with them? Now that just kinda mucks up Splinter's story. As for the rest of that drawing it truly suits the possibilities of Vol. 4's ending and the Mirage feel. Not too much seems to happen to Donny and Ralph (back to normal) while Leo and Mikey do seem to have gained something in their journeys away from Earth or present reality.
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Jim... you tease! |
I haven't read all of Volume 4, but does Mikey really have turtle kids in it?
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Yeah I'm not sure where Jim Lawson got the 3 Turtle kids from either, unless he simply forgot the older issues. Also weren't there like 100 Regenta eggs or something?
Also don't like the idea of Splinter returning. I mean way to kill one of the best moments of Volume 4, and Splinter passing away made sense. Just to bring him back is pointless and reeks of comic book retconning for no reason. As much as I love Lawson, I really hope the ideas in this piece don't come to pass. Especially on what I mentioned and the implication of Casey/Karai. lol. |
Maybe Lawson recently read the Road Hogs comics?
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Maybe the Regenta is the kind of creature that eats most of her babies and only three hatchlings survived throughout infancy?
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It's cool that Jim was so passionate about it, and it's a great piece but most of that is really stupid. Mainly Splinter coming back.
And yeah I seem to remember everyone agreed she was lying about those eggs being Mike's. And I know it's fiction but really... a Mutated earth turtle reproducing with an alien dinosaur? I don't think so. |
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http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...the_father.gif |
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Splinter's death was far more than "a few issues ago." Try over 20 issues ago. |
Oh wow, I thought it was less time ago...
But still 20 issues for an average comic book would be less then 2 years, but it was 11 years for TMNT. |
I like seeing Mikey with his brothers. I really hate how Mirage just leaves him in space and everyone sort of wondering what happened to him. Probably the most tragic thing that happened to any of the TMNT. I think out of all of them though, that Mikey would be the best suited to be a father later in life and I think that legitimate or not he would attempt to raise those kids as his own.
Volume 4 and Tales 2 paint a really bleak future for the TMNT but the concept that the family wouldn't end with the Turtles themselves really is more hopeful than them leaving their legacy to Shadow alone. Mikey's son wanting to be a Jedi seems right too. |
Brilliant.
I hope that Peter Laird still finishes the series one day, but if not then at least this gives us some sort of closure. Oh, and I totally want a Volume 5 by Lawson & Berger now! |
There won't be an actual canon published Volume 5, my guess is Jim will just draw various art based on ideas he would have had for a proposed volume, like now.
Mirage won't publish Volume 5 (PL can't even be bothered to finish 4), and IDW wouldn't either. |
I know :tsad:
Doesn't stop me wanting it though :twink: |
Greetings Everyone, my name is Robert and my father and I commissioned Mr. Lawson to do this drawing. Having talked with Mr. Lawson I would like to say on the topic of Splinter, he was not dead, at least not the original Splinter. As was revealed in the last issue of TMNT, Donnie revealed that Splinter's DNA did not match up with that of their father; and if more comics were to come this would have been revealed for better or for worse. In the case of Mikey, I agree with Mr. Lawson that Mikey probably would be battling with some PTSD like symptoms after everything he went through while in space.
Now I would like to say, like many fellow Shellheads would probably agree, that Mr. Laird will probably never finish TMNT, but that just my own opinion and I would prefer to be wrong. with that said my father and I, and I'm sure others would agree, that we would like some kind of closer; its true that we have the IDW turtles but they are not the original Mirage turtles that have continued since issue 1 of vol 1 all those years ago. In my mind only Mrs's Laird or Lawson were up to par to end the series, since they have been working steady since vol 2 together and knowing that I could never convince Mr. Laird to do a commision I contacted Mr. Lawson and after about 5 months he agreed. Not everyone will like it but it was my hope that it would atleast give closer to myself and to those who have been reading the series all these years. Thank You, -Robert:tsmile: |
So what did you tell him to draw? Like how much of it is your idea and how much is his?
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2 Things:
1) Great commission! I've never seen a commission that prompted this kind of discussion. Whether you like it or not, the piece is very interesting and thought-provoking for readers of Volume 4. This speaks to Jim Lawson's ability as an artist. 2) If Image is considered Volume 3, why wouldn't IDW's series be considered Volume 5? Both volumes exist outside of Mirage continuity and are published by different companies? I figure Jim doesn't pay much mind to the IDW books, but I saw people here continually refer to a hypothetical Volume 5 when we're already 30+ issues deep into one. Just curious. |
I would say its because initially Image's run was wanted to be "the next step" and follow along from volume two and it was always tagged as volume three. Only after (or during?) it was not well liked (at least by Peter, from what I've read) and considered non canon.
IDW started as an entirely self contained new ball game... I've seen other folks on here refer to it as volume five but I would not consider it as such myself. And then, if Peter ever catches some inspiration and finishes volume four, he technically could still do more and have a Mirage volume five. (One can hope... More Mirage Universe anyways...) Make sense? |
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So you're saying the difference is initial intent? That seems a little flimsy to me. So because Volume 3 intended to continue the story from Volume 2 (unsuccessfully in the eyes of Peter Laird) and IDW intended to take the story in a different direction, that's the reason Image counts as volume 3 and IDW is not volume 5? In the end, volume 4 ignored the events of Image's run. I would assume that if Laird or Lawson or anyone wanted to continue the stories beyond a conclusion to Volume 4, they would ignore the events of IDW's run. Agreed? I'm just trying to understand. The way I see this working out in a perfect world would be for Volume 4 to be renamed as Volume 3 and Image's run on the title to no longer carry the "Volume 3" moniker. This would mean that volumes 1-3 would form one cohesive story and Image and IDW would not be considered in the "volume" naming convention. Of course, this isn't going to happen as, like you said, Image's run has be called "Volume 3" since the beginning. Rather than muddy the waters, I think consistency should win out and IDW should continue the pattern and be labeled as Volume 5. Just my personal opinion, of course. I do like that the Mirage site calls the Image books "Volume 3" with quotation marks fully intact. It makes be believe they're not fully on board with the naming either. :lol: |
IDW isn't Volume 5 because its an all-new series. Image was originally written as a canon part of Mirage universe.
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If you're going to start trying to call non-Mirage continuity stuff "Volume This or That" then you're going to have to account for TMNTA in there too.
But nope, TMNTA and TMNT IDW are their own things, not numbered volumes in line with the original universe. |
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Thinking more critically, you'll remember that many of the stories that take place within volume 1 do not exist in the Mirage continuity. Many of those stories were treated as if they never happened in later stories yet they still count as "Volume 1". Why? Mirage continuity or not, the book was titled "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles". The same logic applies to the Image & IDW series'. |
What is so difficult to understand? If its not about the Mirage Turtles it shouldn't be considered a "volume" which is why IDW and Archie are not.
Tales of the TMNT was a companion book, along with all those one-shot specials and mini-series. It doesn't matter which issues are canon or not, they were all in the Mirage universe. IDW and Archie are completely separate, neither one would be a Volume 5 |
Cubed's got it. To think otherwise is silly.
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