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-   -   Did it start back in season 1? (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=52374)

Groverman62 06-05-2015 09:12 AM

Did it start back in season 1?
 
I dont know but to me, some of the the problems people claim to have with season 2 or 3, seemed to be already up in season 1, like Mikey at times being too stupid, Donnie's crush being creepy.

Maybe its just me, but when a show is in its 1st season it seems that you can be more forgiving of its flaws than with the later ones. Thats probably part of why season 1 is held in high regard by some

Sabacooza 06-05-2015 09:43 AM

Lets not forget Raph being totally kicked to the curb as one of the complaints but that didn't start to happen until after season one.

As for Donnie and Mikey, I think it was tolerated because it was new but as it went on they started to play on it more and more to the point where it was really in your face and less tolerable.

IndigoErth 06-05-2015 12:15 PM

On top of being new, the Turtles were also emotionally younger and more amateurish in the first season and pretty forgivable for it.

Maybe it's not so much that some of that stuff was ever bad, but just grown old; and at this point need to take another leap, at least a small one, in character development/progression/maturity.

Mikey does seem to be less of a prankster now, but it would be nice if he got his act together some and was a little less dimwitted. Donnie... move it forward or close that chapter. Raph's a bit in limbo. I appreciate Leo's progression, though I miss his cheesy lines. :) You can't win though, I'm sure if he never dropped that people would probably be sick of it. lol

CaliperCat 06-05-2015 12:15 PM

It seems to me that, to most people, the good points in season one, and even season two, outweighed the character traits and plot points that they found most annoying. Therefore, they were more able to ignore them. Season three, however, started with Northampton and has jumped all over the place since. As there generally seems to be fewer good points to focus on in the eyes of many people, the less-than-positive points receive more focus.

GoldMutant 06-05-2015 12:39 PM

I think people look past season 1 because of it being the first time we meet these incarnations of many of our favorite characters with some introduced over time.

Season 1 seems to have more connections with story and plot as everyone felt at least equal in terms of development. The humor might be a pain in the butt sometimes from Michelangelo, but for the most part it does work.

As the season continue, our expectations grow larger and larger as we can tell the series was going a little more serious only to fall flat on it's face.

To put it blunt and short, it was forgivable in season 1 for the new introduction but gradually got worse despite me enjoying season 2 more at times.

ImmaAxolotl 06-05-2015 12:59 PM

I believe that it did start in Season 1, but it was bearable due to the fact that the show had so much potential back then. Nowadays we're just hyping ourselves over the next plot point and hoping that something actually sticks for character development.

Papenbrook 06-05-2015 07:42 PM

No. If it did start back in season one, the villains would have always had a comical portrayal, and Raph would be getting shafted more frequently.

CyberCubed 06-05-2015 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Kraken (Post 1468331)
No. If it did start back in season one, the villains would have always had a comical portrayal, and Raph would be getting shafted more frequently.

LOL, what? The villains have always been portrayed as serious. The comical aspects are brief and minor.

Raph got a lot of screentime in Season 1? He got the Spiderbitez episode and the Cockroach terminator episode, and a few Leo team-up eps and I think that's it.

MrTMNT2012 06-05-2015 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groverman62 (Post 1468112)
I dont know but to me, some of the the problems people claim to have with season 2 or 3, seemed to be already up in season 1, like Mikey at times being too stupid, Donnie's crush being creepy.

Maybe its just me, but when a show is in its 1st season it seems that you can be more forgiving of its flaws than with the later ones. Thats probably part of why season 1 is held in high regard by some

Those aren't problems, those are nitpicks!

I couldn't care less about Donnie's crush being creepy if the show was at least half as well written as the first season...

Groverman62 06-05-2015 08:16 PM

Look Purple Kraken, while you do have legitimate criticisms, its when you say things like "this is fatshaming" that you end up losing me.

Also TMNT2012, I was just listing down a few things I have seen be complained about

LeotheLateBloomer 06-05-2015 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCubed (Post 1468336)
LOL, what? The villains have always been portrayed as serious. The comical aspects are brief and minor.

Raph got a lot of screentime in Season 1? He got the Spiderbitez episode and the Cockroach terminator episode, and a few Leo team-up eps and I think that's it.

I love how you always say "LOL, what?" when someone says something you don't agree with.

CyberCubed 06-05-2015 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer (Post 1468412)
I love how you always say "LOL, what?" when someone says something you don't agree with.

Because its a baffling comment. The villains aren't portrayed as serious anymore? There's always been a mix of humor and seriousness to the villains.

BabyTurtles 06-06-2015 01:56 AM

I just want some character development....(it isn't season 1 anymore afterall)

1)Mikey getting smarter (while still remaining a prankster)
2) Donnie getting over his crush (or at least closing that romance plot)
3) Raph getting some story arc or....something
4) Leo is developing...only turtle who is XD per the norm.

we want characters to progress not remain static right?

It's getting annoying like..."didn't they just learn that 2 episodes" annoying.

srmff 06-06-2015 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BabyTurtles (Post 1468496)
I just want some character development....(it isn't season 1 anymore afterall)

1)Mikey getting smarter (while still remaining a prankster)
2) Donnie getting over his crush (or at least closing that romance plot)
3) Raph getting some story arc or....something
4) Leo is developing...only turtle who is XD per the norm.

we want characters to progress not remain static right?

It's getting annoying like..."didn't they just learn that 2 episodes" annoying.

Since they left Northampton Donnie has gotten over his crush. It hasn't been menational since Vision Quest. I don't see why people keep complaining about the crush when it hasn't been mentioned in over 10 episodes.

victory_angel 06-06-2015 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by srmff (Post 1468577)
Since they left Northampton Donnie has gotten over his crush. It hasn't been menational since Vision Quest. I don't see why people keep complaining about the crush when it hasn't been mentioned in over 10 episodes.

The crush is still there, it's just been toned down. I think it's more that he's grown to accept that things will be what they will be and no matter who April chooses she will always have a special place in his heart.

Powder 06-06-2015 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by srmff (Post 1468577)
Since they left Northampton Donnie has gotten over his crush. It hasn't been menational since Vision Quest. I don't see why people keep complaining about the crush when it hasn't been mentioned in over 10 episodes.

The fact it hasn't been mentioned in over 10 episodes is why people are complaining about it. They want resolution.

srmff 06-06-2015 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Powder (Post 1468691)
The fact it hasn't been mentioned in over 10 episodes is why people are complaining about it. They want resolution.

It may not be a resolution but it is some character development. He has accepted that April may not like him and is giving her space. To me it was like what was happening with Leo's leg. We saw his leg getting better bit by bit and after Vision Quest he was better. At the end of 'A Foot too Big' it seems like Donnie is starting to accept that she doesn't have feelings for him. In Vision Quest Leo tells him that he needs to leave his worries and fears behind when Donnie's concerned about leaving April and Casey alone. After Vision Quest we see Donnie not being concerned about April the whole time and gives her space to make up her own mind. Yes the crush was subtly there in Meet Mondo Gecko but he didn't say anything to Jason or April.

Anyway what I don't understand is the fact that everyone was complaining about Donnie being obsessive and the whole romance plot but now that it's subtly in the background and he isn't being obsessive, people are still complaining.

Since season 1 Raph is a lot calmer and in control of emotions. Yes he seemed to be suddenly angry for no reason in Clash of the Mutanimals but anger is in his character. He has learned to control it better but he can still lose control sometimes. Someone with anger issues can't always remain calm. He was probably frustrated by the lack of progress.

We've seen Mikey be able to be in command and take control. He also isn't been shown to be an idiot but instead tends to have more disgusting jokes. His brothers don't seem to look down on him anymore and take him seriously.

Groverman62 06-06-2015 04:29 PM

people just really hate love triangles, not that I can blame them

victory_angel 06-06-2015 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by srmff (Post 1468719)
It may not be a resolution but it is some character development. He has accepted that April may not like him and is giving her space. To me it was like what was happening with Leo's leg. We saw his leg getting better bit by bit and after Vision Quest he was better. At the end of 'A Foot too Big' it seems like Donnie is starting to accept that she doesn't have feelings for him. In Vision Quest Leo tells him that he needs to leave his worries and fears behind when Donnie's concerned about leaving April and Casey alone. After Vision Quest we see Donnie not being concerned about April the whole time and gives her space to make up her own mind. Yes the crush was subtly there in Meet Mondo Gecko but he didn't say anything to Jason or April.

Anyway what I don't understand is the fact that everyone was complaining about Donnie being obsessive and the whole romance plot but now that it's subtly in the background and he isn't being obsessive, people are still complaining.

Let's also not forget the way Donnie seems to have an elated look when Leo puts him and April together to check out the cleaners. And Bebop does call April "Your ex-girl friend" when he's talking to Donnie.

Ninturtle 06-06-2015 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by victory_angel (Post 1468744)
Let's also not forget the way Donnie seems to have an elated look when Leo puts him and April together to check out the cleaners. And Bebop does call April "Your ex-girl friend" when he's talking to Donnie.

Bebop actually said " Imma drop you like an ex girlfriend " and he wasn't referencing April.

Powder 06-06-2015 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by srmff (Post 1468719)
Anyway what I don't understand is the fact that everyone was complaining about Donnie being obsessive and the whole romance plot but now that it's subtly in the background and he isn't being obsessive, people are still complaining.

Again, that's exactly it. They know it's gonna come back at some point, & they'd rather it be done sooner than later. The folks who dislike it wanna get it out of the way & not worry that there's a looming romance plot over their heads.

Personally I like the Donnie/April thing, but I too am eager to see where it's going. :trazz:

Refractive Reflections 06-11-2015 06:43 PM

I made a couple of posts about this gradual appearance of the problems mentioned:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Refractive Reflections (Post 1457597)
The first season was the best of the series (at least from what I tried to continue in watching), particularly the first two-thirds of the first season.

One of the biggest reasons was that we saw the Turtles engage and relate to the characters, especially the villains, in a deeper way (Bradford with Mikey, Fishface with Raph, and Leo with Karai and Fong, Donnie with Timothy); by doing so, it revealed the different facets of the Turtles, and as the series continued, appeared to be a progressive path of character development for the Turtles. Yet as it neared closer to the end of season 1... somehow that all fell apart:

1) The increasing caricature or one-dimensional depiction of the main characters. Mikey's increasing idiocy, the hyperfocus on making Raph a one-dimensional character with anger problems, Donnie's growing stalker like behavior around April, April becoming more like a Mary Sue, the ongoing overemphasis of the Donnie-April-Casey love triangle, etc.

2) The transition of making the villains as interesting characters with a backstory (i.e. Bradford, Fishface), to becoming "mutant villains of the week" (Season 2 and afterward).

3) And the most grating: The plot amnesia with the show, which undermines whatever lessons learned or whatever little growth there was for the characters (i.e. through the characters relating to each other as explained earlier), and now traded for more cliche school morale messages (i.e. "I can do anything if I believe in myself and my training!")


I don't know if it was the pressure from Nick or the production crew to change the format of a serial show to a more procedural-leaning one (with the show's plot amnesia), or to focus on the action figure merchandise (aka "mutant of the week") from Nick, or the departure of Sternin & Ventimilia, is the cause for the very disappointing tone and execution shift, but somewhere near the end Season 1 there's a gradual change in the show's direction.

It wasn't my favorite TMNT series from the start, but at least with the first season there was a lot of potential from what I saw and I was genuinely interested to see where it would go, but it never seemed to want to explore that potential in the show's narrative or maybe it was just oblivious to what good potential it had. By the time I saw the Season 2 finale, all of that potential I once saw, now all seems wasted and a distant memory.

What makes it worse is how this show was seemingly meant to encapsulate the "best" of the TMNT legacy, but it doesn't seem to quite do that. It doesn't have the solid, serial-formatted storywriting that 4Kids has, neither does it have the witty humor of the OT but rather has low-brow immature humor (i.e. Mikey being painfully dumb, farts, belching, the ongoing love triangle). It has quickly forgotten villains and developments (i.e. the Technodrome, the Foot Clan becoming nearly invincible robots, TigerClaw's ruthlessness), which the show hypes beyond the actual magnitude of their impact. Strangely enough, the show seems to be on its own non-distinct (by using numerous other TMNT elements and horror movies) and fairly unimpressive path within the TMNT franchise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Refractive Reflections (Post 1457609)

For me, near the end of the 1st season the signs that made things go downhill for me was the gradual emergence of Mikey's stupidity (the beginning of one dimensional character depictions), introducing the Technodrome so soon within the series when it was so iconic of the OT rather than focusing on its own iconic imagery (the beginning overuse of OT elements), and then by the season 2 premiere with the first sign of plot amnesia (April storming away from the Turtles and leaving them, despite the constant Kraang threat when just back at the ending of "Karai's Vendetta", there was an intense emotional scene on how she would have to live in the lair for a long period of time because of the Kraang threat) and "mutant of the week" plots (with the mutagen canisters falling everywhere, which was a bit too obvious of a plot device though for creating any bizarre random mutant).

These signs became more prevalent as the second season progressed until it dawned on me that these "random" occurrences were changing the tone of the show in becoming the norm, and by the season 2 finale, I lost my patience with it and stopped watching.

Anyways, I lost interest with the Nick series, now even to the point of what's going on plotwise (midway through Season 3). So I don't know how things are now, it might have changed for all I know now, but I don't currently feel in putting effort into knowing about it. :ohwell:

CyberCubed 06-12-2015 02:46 PM

There is no plot amnesia. Plot threads and episodes are called back upon when the time arises to go back to them.

They're not going to have April stand around moaning about her mother for 20 episodes until they find her.


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