Would the turtles still be as popular if they were females?
 

I was playing a game in the car with another turtle fan and we were speculating what other animals could have pulled off the turtles as successfully.

We know about frogs since they had an episode or two in there, but I don't think they would be as cool as TMNT. But what if they were female turtles who were more interested in clothes and makeup? Would that still be as popular? What about two boy and two girl turtles? That would have made the situation different in a lot of ways.

What about rabbits? What if they weren't ninjas? There are only so many animals that would be as cool as turtles. Alligators maybe, Teenage Mutant Ninja Gators. Armadillos? They have plated armor. There are a lot of possibilities, but the turtles just fit. It's like it was fate all along.

They could work as females, but they'd be a bit bigger, since female Turtles are often bigger then males. They could still still be as popular- but the major problem is that all too often whenever shows write females they are a bit stereotypical or they really sex them up. If those traps were avoided though, you could actually have 'serious' fun female Turtles.

P.S, I did see gender-swapped Turtles, Shredder, Rocksteady and Bebop on Deviant Art. There were a few duds, but there a few artists that really made fem!Shredder and the fem!Turtles look quite badass. Same with fem!Bebop and fem!Rocksteady, the concept can actually be made to work.

They would basically be anime magical girl stereotypes:

Leonardo = Sailor Moon

Raphael = Rogue (X-men) or Misty (Pokemon)

Donatello = Every nerdy female character out there

Michelangelo = the typical fun kawaii desu anime moe girl that anime fans have posters on their walls of.

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Not that there's anything wrong with those topics if that's your thing, but given that would probably automatically be marketer/writer's thinking because they think girls exist in only a very small box of interests... Why not they're girls with, I dunno, a personality like Karai? Instead of being like April on prom night.

Stick with stereotypes and they'd never had made it very far, being a mutant Turtle can only carry it so far.

Why do that when the Internet has already provided as to how that would look?:P

Considering no one had the balls to create a cartoon starring four female ninjas, let alone four female ninja turtles, there's no way popularity would've skyrocketed.

It was the 90's, cartoons were still almost entirely "for boys." One main female character per series, be it April O'Neil or Jessie Bannon.

I think this all depends on when we're talking about.

In the 80s the show probably would have looked a whole lot more like Jem and the Holograms, and probably wouldn't have skyrocketed no matter how clever or well written it was...because things that cater to girls aren't worth as much as things catered to boys.

If you're talking about now, the style would probably be more Lauren Faust in design, and if it were clever and well made...then it'd be popular, mostly because little boys would be trying to steal it and make it their own. Because things that cater to girls aren't worth as much as things that cater to boys.

What I think is fantastic is that thanks to Sophie Campbell...we have both! A fan-made female-centric turtles that has the aesthetic of Jem and the Holograms. And that's pretty damn fantastic.

Well Sailor Moon worked and it's form the 90s, so I don't see why the Ninja Turtles could have not. I see your point and SM might be the exception that proves the rule, but I could see 4 female Turtles working with some reworking and different writting into it. But we'll never know how it'd have turned out anyway, so it's kinda pointless to discuss this possible scenario.

I think the unspoken assumption here is that the cartoon in question be made in the States. I'd imagine there's less of a financial risk involved in obtaining the rights for an already made show and then dubbing it into English for an American audience as opposed to creating a show from scratch.

The unspoken assumption is that the original creators are still Eastman and Laird, which means more than likely, yeah, US-produced.

Sailor Moon was a success everywhere. Not just in Japan and the USA. If a japanese show starring girls can be a hit worldwide, why couldn't an american one be? And japanese society is thought as being less "progressive" when it comes to gender equality than most western ones are. So I dont' see how, with the right tools and strategy, an american show starring a bunch of female heroes couldn't have worked out fairly well in the 90s. I mean, the Power Puff Girls are from the 90s, too. Okay, they weren't as successful as the Fred Wolf series was, but it's not like they were a blip in the radar. And it's been remade once(an anime) and is gonna be remade again.

Now that I think about it, four girl foxes like Alopex could have a shot. If they were similar to the guys in personality and they all were ninja's or at least talented at fighting, but looked like Alopex, it might have a shot.

I think so many people dislike the idea of female turtles having breasts in their plastrons like Venus did. But would you really want them to be flat chested with nothing to show they are female but maybe their eyes or mouths?

Short answer...yes Adding breast or hair is trying too hard in my book.

"Shell boobs" don't bother me. After all, mutagen causes animals to take on anthropomorphic humanoid features. Humans have, we've all noticed, mammaries.

With all the "Radioactive Kung Fu Hamsters" and "Martial Arts Kangaroos" and other parodies that came out after TMNT, I'm very surprised no one did a gender-swapped parody.

I was always under the impression of humanoid but not so much human characteristics? But then again how do you explain their diet?

What's there to explain about their diet?

Red Ear sliders normally eat plants fish and decaying items found native to their habitat. Splinter would be fine as he is scavenger, so from worms, fish and various plants to Pizza, nachos and Ice cream? I start to raise a brow.:lol:

Again, mutation. You can handwave a lot by referring it back to their mutation. :tlol:

Besides, nobody wants to see the Turtles eating worms and algae. And also, how are pizza chains supposed to cash in on corporate mascots without TMNT?!

And this my friend is why I'm not in Marketing I would run us into the ground for being to logical. The more useless crap you up sale the more they will buy:P

Yes.
In fact...I'd prefer it more if there were no "othering" tells to speak of at all.

Mr Technogeek, please. We're not selling sh!t; these are high-quality all-natural facial cleansing mud masks!

Maybe if they were done with MINIMAL shell-boobage and maybe just hair like Mona Lisa and a more slender and feminine shape, it'd work well. Or you could go a more realistic route shape-wise and make them a bit bigger and more "butch" gals. Like She-Thing or She-Hulk! (Yes, there IS a She-Thing. She was even a wrestler in the Marvel Universe in the special division for powered athletes.) I could see them as turtle versions of Jersey Red or Abby Finn- that could be kind of cool! (but still keep the basic personalities of the originals- just feminized a bit.)

Honestly, look at Tigress from Kung Fu Panda, it works. She's probably one of the ONLY anthropomorphic female characters I can even recall that was NOT given human-woman features or accessories as a way of making sure we know she's female.

And you know what? Thanks to the way society is and what we're made to expect, at first did I not know she's a she? Yeah. But guess what, due to voice, name, and people saying "she/her," I found out really quickly. Once I knew, I knew, no big deal; I haven't gone around confused long term or anything.

Whether they give a character boobs or not... Meh. I can take it or leave it. But it just looks stranger on a reptile than it does a mammal, esp one with chest and abdominal plates and said boobs are just there for...no reason. (Other than "look it's a girl!" because people are apparently assumed to be too dumb to pick up on that without them.)


If male characters were treated the way female ones are... near all would be disproportionate muscle men and wear bow ties, just to be sure we understand that they are male.

Imagine the Turtles with bow ties to make sure we get it. :lol: I mean that would be cute, but it sounds silly if that was the normal expectation to signify their gender.

Culture dictates that unless we're specifically shown otherwise, everything is male. Female is an outlier...even though we're usually the majority.

One of the many things I loved about Avatar: The Last Airbender, is the broad range of female character designs, most of which were devoid of things like lipstick and cleavage.

Aang and Sokka wore makeup nearly a season before Katara did.

Keeping in mind that the dub of Sailor Moon was straightwashed and completely altered/erased all of the gay, lesbian, trans and genderbending characters (including making Sailors Uranus and Neptune cousins in the US, instead of lovers like they were in the original, portraying Zoisite as being a straight woman when he is actually a gay man, portraying Fisheye as being a straight cis woman when they were gay or potentially trans), I'd have to say that the Japanese version was actually much more progressive. I'd also argue that if the SM dub hadn't been changed to be so "child friendly", it may not have been the success that it was in the US.

I don't think just because someone is female, they should automatically have breasts. A person's femininity is not defined by the presence of breasts (or lack thereof) - if a woman has cancer and has a mastectomy, she is still female. Her breasts being there or not being there don't make her less of a woman. In reptiles, there is literally no functional purpose in having plastron boobs - it's basically just being put in there so people know "which one is the girl one", thereby reinforcing the "girls = boobs and eyelashes and bows" trope. It's not that boobs or eyelashes or bows are bad, but when they're the default markers (and only option) for what is usually the sole female character, it's problematic.

Also, considering the fact that we're dealing with non-human species, sexual dimorphism can vary greatly. In many species, the females are bigger than the males. In some species, sexual dimorphism isn't present at all.

I dunno, I just find it irritating that we automatically have to slap some obvious "this is female"/"this is male" marker on something - society shouldn't be so obsessed with putting everything into a clearly marked gender box labelled "girl things" and "boy things".

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And white. Don't forget white.

Certainly. The Turtles as we know them don't have any male Turtle traits, besides maybe the Nick Turtled as their shells have a more concave plastron (except for Mikey... Hmmm) which is something male turtles have. But they don't have long nails being Sliders, usually they lack tails, and when they have tails they are actually relatively short for being males.

If TMNT had started out as girls, we'd not have any real female turtle traits to go by, as there are none for the TMNT we know. Had the TMNT been female, we'd be speculating about how a male humanoid turtle would look like and muse that they'd be 4 feet tall, have long nails and long tails.

For all we know the Turtles could be females, but raised as boys, cause Splinter may not be all that good at sexing turtles, juvenile turtles at that.

As for a female TMNT. Maybe, who knows. I'd love them.

:teek:

Wouldn't THAT be a plot twist?

:tlol:

Since turtles are reptiles and not mammals, female turtles, humanoid or otherwise, should not have boobs (aka mammaries). If we're talking movies or TV, they could show that they're female by using female voices. For comics, it would have to mentioned some other way, giving them female names would be a good start.

As for the original question, no, they wouldn't be as popular. If something is about fighting and martial arts, many more guys than girls will be interested in it. At the very least, the writing would have to be completely changed in such a way that it's no longer the TMNT that we all know them as.

And straight. And cis.
#notallturtles

Although Sailor Moon may have had a variety of female characters and personalities, in my opinion, I don't think it should be used completely as an example of being "progressive" because many of the characters still contain the pervasive Lolita image. I understand that heroes/heroines are traditionally in shape and good-looking, but even in the intro, any squatting or crouching position the protagonists make, their legs are strategically placed to avoid flashing themselves toward the audience with the microskirts they wear. :lol:

...I don't know, it kinda subtly suggests to girls that "skimpy attire" translates to "female empowerment".

If we're talking about female Turtles who talk about clothes and makeup, then forget it. We don't need that sh*t on TV. As long as they don't have shell boobs and they can fight, then it could work. But then again, what's the point? Why should we have to change them when they're fine just the way they are?

Edit: I think a better idea would be to have maybe a parallel world where the Turtles are female. That would be interesting. But I don't want them to fall in love with their female counterpart. That's just too cliche.

Not too mention creepily incestuous and narcissistic.

Sorry, no.

Two aspects make the turtles popular: characterisation and action. The majority of female characters are really rubbishly handled on kids TV - often appearing two-dimensional and stereotypical. Strong characterisation would be difficult. It is also less likely that fellas who watch for the action would be less able to identify with female characters, so at least 50% of the current audience would be alienated. Most female comic book characters are overtly sexualised - evidence that there is little appetite for female characters with any real substance. I have no faith that anyone could successfully write compelling female versions of the turtles. Their current male characters are part of the property's charm. TMNT would lose that charm if the characters had less substance.

Well, if TMNT were primarily aimed at girls and written and created by women, I guess things wouldn't be like that.

You know, I've theorized that they keep their nails short intentionally, to avoid accidental injuries from claws during sparring. As for the tails, maybe they are short due to the mutation changing their spinal structure to accommodate a bipedal mode of movement? At any rate, I'm pretty sure that even if Splinter didn't know much about sexing turtles (that sounds so dirty, LOL!) he would've figured it out the instant they hit puberty and started exhibiting typical male behavior (IE- penile dropping, heightened aggression and territorial behavior, or "looking for mates", albeit subconsciously- also known as self-service....)




I have a "twist" in my main fic of Donnie actually being hermie- but only Splinter knows. (Until it is revealed later in the story- but only to Mikey!) Splinter simply raised him/her as a "boy" to avoid confusion and awkwardness between the four. Unfortunately, he's non-functional on both sides, thus making him effectively neuter. But Donnie still considers himself a male in spite of having BOTH parts!

I don't really remember what I thought of Venus when I first saw her, but I came to realize that the braid from her mask was supposed to give an idea of hair. I did think she should have some form of clothes to cover her chest, but the idea of her boobs being her plastron was just not quite right.

When I first saw a picture of 2k3's Renet I thought she'd be this tough sounding girl who could kick rear, but then she ended up being ditzy and goofy? She wasn't a sex object nor did the guys act like she was sexy. They were endeared to her and actually cared about her by the end of her time on the show.

If I recall, she was even prettier with her hair down and regular cave woman clothes on. What happened to her with the guys during those months they were trapped together would make an excellent fanfic. :trazz: Sorry, I had to go there.

If I start hearing about an increase in Renet DeviartArt posts, I'll know who's to blame. :tlol:

Not a fan of that idea. Not personally attacking or criticizing, you understand, just saying that twist does not interest me at all.

Meeting an alternate dimension opposite gender version of themselves sounds...awkward.

Either risks feeling an uncomfortable and morally objectionable connection to their other self...ORRRR, preferably, find out that someone otherwise exactly like them would drive them completely crazy and each go home with a better understanding of what they put their brothers through. :tlol:

Which is pretty sad really, because, as a woman, I doubt I'm alone in being able to relate to a male character in ways outside of their gender. It's a shame the reverse rarely seems to be true, or socially blocked from being able to be because of the way entertainment is made.

Now lets be fair, half of the blame will soon belong to Nick. :lol:

^^^^^^
this

Well, it's not for everyone, obviously. It was just my way of explaining some of the odd quirks of his character in the OT series, without going the obvious route of making him gay. Things like why his voice was so much higher in pitch, his wild mood swings, his extreme obsession with mechanical or electronic things (immersing himself in his lab to avoid dealing with others), his apparent lack of interest in girls, and why his bandana was purple. (Since it's a mix of blue and red- two gender-oriented colors....)