Season 2: What was the Problem
 

Im always up for listening to different opinions.

The thing is I do not get what were people's problems with season 2. I like it and season 1 more or less equally. Why is it people seem dissapointed?

-April plot clusterf*ck that hardly got brought up
-Forgetting plots (Mutagen? Kraang Shredder alliance?)
-More filler mutants (Which I personally am fine with)
-Looser continuity

Nothing much. I'm willing to bet from this point on people are going to complain about every season after Season 1.

Watch when Season 4 airs people complaining about them spending too much time in space, since I'm willing to bet it'll be like the Northampton arc where they're in space for the first 7-8 episodes or so of next season.

Possibly a forced setback in status quo. The Turtles defeated the Kraang in season 1 and April was reunited with her father, yet season 2 starts out with the Kraang returning and Kirby goes away again.

I guess the new team of writers didn't know what to do when everything was more or less resolved at the end of the first season, so they just desided to return to the basics of the first season so they could figure it out from there.

I think season 2 was stronger than season 3, at least. I guess my biggest problem with season 2 is that this is when it really started to show that the writers weren't all that keen on following through with their stakes. Like, the interesting plot points kinda ended with a fizzle rather than a bang or a satisfying tie-up from here.

Take when Kirby was mutated into a bat for example; it happens, we don't mention it for a few episodes, and then it just . . . ends when April is suddenly cool with it. Or the mutagen outbreak thing -- that was kinda put on the shelf half-way through, too. I don't get it, man; why do that if you aren't going to explore it or anything? It kind of weakens the whole caboodle . . .

It's been awhile since I've watched season 2, so I'd have to go through it again in order to give a completely well-founded opinion on it, but I'll try nonetheless~

You see, while a couple of my favorite episodes in the entire series are there ("Of Rats and Men" and "Wormquake") and the animation definitely takes a big leap forward, I think my biggest problems with it are some odd characterization "glitches"/choices and ret-cons (especially concerning Karai, Donnie, Splinter, and Leo) as well as particularly grating plot-holes here and there. This is also where I started to wonder whether or not these writers actually know how to handle character development and high-stakes situations in story-telling; so much happened in this season that called for more consistency and stronger character reactions/interactions, but I don't think any of that happened the way it should have.

That's just my two cents, though, and a rough summary of them at that. It's not like season 1 didn't have notable problems, but things got even rockier for me around season 2.

There were no plotholes. What are people referring to?

Looser continuity, more fillers and more random mutants.

Agreed. There is also the unnecessary extentions of already completed plotlines.

What the fatshaming Purple Kraken. I thought that was a big issue with you

They were about 4-5 episodes that I consider filler and I dont see the looser contiunuity issue

My problem is that the jokes weren't as funny in season 2. There's some really good humor in season 1 but less of it in season 2.

More like character A/B hit upon a huge personal revelation bombshell and not a single reaction was shown in a way that was realistically effecting character A/B and thus gave the ****ing huge personal revelation bombshell zero ****s .

Looser continuity is more like small connections to different side stories like the Marvel Universe. The continuity in season 2 should have been a straight line in character development and story arc but it went off a cliff, into a hole and somehow end up in ****ing China. :x

But the continuity of later half season 3 is a huge improvement because they are not dropping huge personal revelation bombshells anymore that would've only gotten ignored and all of the characters walking around with a plastic stepford smile on their faces.

I thought that the episodes weren't really the problem, but where the episodes were placed. But season 2 is still my favorite, so I don't really see much wrong with the season as a whole.

Both of these for me. :D

Yup but Season 2 had really good individual episodes, but the over arching storyline? What storyline? Honestly in those days, their philosophy was probably "Hey, let's throw it and see what sticks guys." which is how we get some awesome episodic stories, and with most of them being intro episodes to new characters. Few exception were Karai character arc, and April being mad at the turtles.

What had help the later half of season 3 's continuity, somewhere just after Return to New York arc, was that just loose enough to have stand alone episodes that still felt connected to the main plot; probably, because the storyline was uncovering it.

It just goes to show that TMNT works better with storylines that have soft revelations of the characters themselves slowly uncovering of the whatever macguffin plot device of the season. The bigger revelation, the more likely of it being drop, because it's all about uncovering the "it" rather then reacting towards "it". It's reason why "find all the mutagen" plot was dropped and the North Hampton arc was written for the way it was, because what's the point going on about something that you've already know?

Yeah, that seems to be the case. Excellent way of putting it! So, basically, we have a case of the writers not really knowing their style/structure, and therefore playing around with machines they don't want/can't operate.

Season 2 forgot some plots here and there, but nothing as huge as those. The Kraang/Shredder alliance and the mutagen stayed as common themes in Season 2 all the way up to the finale. Season 3 is the one that forgot these important threads iirc.

Season 1 had some soft, thoughtful moments and some quite philosophical questions. For example, episodes such as Never Say Xever or Enemy of my Enemy showed Leonardo working through some difficult moral questions. I loved that and thought Ciro had given us something really special, on par with 2k3 in that respect.

Season 2 saw the decline of this thoughtfulness in favour of action, and by Season 3, it was gone altogether. Even episodes such as Slash and Destroy or Vision Quest, with premises that promised something thought provoking seemed unable to go into their subjects in any real depth.

That's my opinion on what went wrong in season 2. The show lost its heart.

The show didn't lose anything. The writers didn't forget anything.

That's your opinion, not fact.

Anyway, the writing has gotten worse in the character department. Raph gets less episodes that focus on his development as a character. When was the last time his hidden depths were shown? Also, April rarely gets an episode with her as the sole focus. It was almost always in relation to Donnie.

Most of the things people are saying in this thread never happened. The writers didn't "forget" anything.

Okay. Then explain what the writers didn't "forget". Also, give details on how the writers didn't "forget" plotlines, arcs, character development, or any other lore that was important to the show.

What did they forget? They didn't forget about mutant canisters in the city because that's how new mutants are randomly popping up. There's no way for the Turtles to find hundreds of canisters scattered around the city, its just to explain new mutants.

They didn't forget the Kraang storyline, the various mutants, or what Shredder is doing.

They would put those plotlines on hold in favor of various fillers. Is Mutagen Man's arc going to go somewhere? How about Sir Malachi's? Or April's reveal as a mutant-human hybrid? Or Karai's reveal as Splinter's daughter? Did any of those go anywhere?

Since when did Sir Malachi have a story arc? Mutagen Man is still frozen, they're working to de-mutate Karai first.

Last time we saw Sir Malachi, he was walking alone in the sewers with no way to return back to a human. They still haven't mentioned Mutagen Man until the second season finale, and the Karai plotline was put on hold in favor of fillers.

Being temporarily put on hold isn't the same as being forgotten. The show isn't over yet. There's still time to revisit old plot lines and characters.

The only things I do feel were legitimately forgotten about are the Sqirrelanoids and the Cockroach Terminator.

A lot of these one-shot characters like Malachi and Squirrelanoids don't really need to be brought up again. I'm not sure if not bringing these characters back is a major flaw -- it's not like they really added anything or are integral to a plot line. They're built as filler characters, after all!

Thank you! I know we tend to criticized season 2 and most of us can agree that were good stand alone episodes, but when talking about the ones suppose to have this long season structure. Those episodes are the ones that tend to color our view and made us feel that was something either missing or lackluster.

This is the reason why I really hated the North Hampton arc because it undercut the emotional payoff that was started in season 2 final. It was the wrong time to do it with so many loose ends.

But at this point if they wanted to do the same thing again but with a whole new location like dimension X or outer space, I'm all for it. The mind serum arc is sort of done at this point and the turtles know how to fight it.

Gosh, I can't add on to this; spot on, both of you! I want so badly to thorougly enjoy this show -- it has so many good concepts and ideas -- but it's so hard when they can't seem to decide what they want to do with it. It's kind of like listening to a book reading by a kid with a really, really short attention span.

Overall I thought season 2 was great, but if there's anything it fell short of, it was how they handled some of the big plots which didn't always feel like they followed them through satisfactorily, particularly in terms of emotional payoff like Luckyday mentioned, for North Hampton especially.

We know they'll get around to dealing with the plots again. But like Leo's sudden lack of reaction to Karai being his sister, North Hampton, April's half human revelation, April's importance to the Kraang, Mutagen Man... These have been dealt with, or will be dealt with eventually, but it's the time in between that, rather than feeling like an appropriate space to breath in between the action, just feels directionless. These plot points aren't forgotten, but like April's half human origin, some of them can certainly feel forgotten.

Absolutely, Lucky. Agreed on all points.

I think we also have to consider that a lot of the "drag-on" we felt in season two was because along with some faulty pacing in some places (we had filler between the Karai/Miwa reveal and the follow-up, same with Kirby's mutation, etc.), the hiatuses started picking up a bit, too. So, people get the feeling that things are dropping off without a trace -- even if the writers plan to wrap it up later, it's taking too long. So, we probably have to shift the blame of some of the issues to the network and scheduling, too.

Yes they haven't really addressed the April is a human/kraang hybrid mutant....at least not directly. But put yourself in April's shoes.

If you found out that the reason you have psychic powers and the reason a bunch of evil alien brains squids want to capture you is because you have their DNA in your veins. Logically that would not be something people would say "Oh cool" about. That would be something that a person would want to distance themselves from the moment they hear it.

In so far the Turtles haven't mentioned anything about it to her as a way of letting absorb it at her own pace. Also when Casey asks about how she has psychic powers, she just says "I'm special" as a way of giving her a way of answering him without going into details. The other Turtles also haven't told Casey as to why she is special because they feel that is something for April to reveal when she is ready.

Even so but for the audience, when dropping a bombshell of that size, you can't just swept it under the rug. It just too juicy because changes almost everything about the character. When a new revelation is only use to give an explanation but not changing dynamic of the characters or showing how it's effecting them, then it makes the revelation seem completely worthless in context of the show.

At the very least address and resolve it even if the resolution will look half ass.

I strongly suspect there was a scene cut from "The Good, the Bad, and the Casey Jones" due to the release date of the episode. It would've gave us the mindset of what was going on in April's head and some much character dimension.

CyberCubed, Purple Kraken is actually making some good points. Dont be so rude.

Also I feel Raph's lack of focus is as season 3 issue

Karai's storyline isn't something they're going to wrap up in one season. The Karai storyline was "put on hold" as you put it when the a Turtles were in Northampton and every other storyline took a back seat.

Sir Malachi was nothing more than a MOW. Nothing needs to be wrapped up there. You can't expect every mutant to suddenly be demuated.

MM isn't a main character. I'm sure there will be resolution at some point but I doubt there is any rush for that.

Agreed on all counts. It seems like other people here don't know how television works. Season long plotlines tend to be resolved throughout the season or at the end of one, not immediately.

People laughably saying the Karai plot was "forgotten?" What the hell does that even mean? She discovered Splinter was her father, then got mutated and wandered around NYC, and then was brainwashed by Shredder. What's "forgotten" here? Its obvious she's going to turn back to normal eventually probably at Season 3's finale.

And people saying one-off mutants are a "plotline" or whatever that means. The mutants are still shown in various episodes too even if its just background cameos, like Spidebritez in the Fishface skateboarding episode.

I only mentioned the Squirrelnoids because Donnie mentioned wanting to use the retromutagen on them and I mentioned the Cockroach Terminator because it's still alive and probably still has a vendetta against Raph.

I see why you said it, of course! I'm just saying, these characters are more gimmicky than anything -- not hard-hitting enough to warrant timely pay-off like I felt Kirby's mutation or the Karai/Miwa reveal did. I totally understand the interest, though, especially since they liked to bring attention to them again at the end of the episodes.

I am 100% on Purple Kraken's side in this debate.

Consider all the mutants in the 4Kids storyline "Outbreak", etc. Eventually, ALL of the mutants in NYC are dealt with by Bishop gassing the city to cure them. Because they were DANGEROUS. Nick's mutants are just as dangerous but completely swept under the rug by the writers with their "mutant of the week" mindset and writing style.