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-   -   From an in-universe perspective, why did Crognard end the way it did? (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=53295)

neatoman 09-17-2015 07:10 AM
From an in-universe perspective, why did Crognard end the way it did?
 
So as we all know at this point, Crognard ended with Crognard getting eaten. Considering the real life purpose of Crognard is to be a foreshadow joke, it's pretty funny but I have to wonder what the in-universe reason for killing Crognard was. Was the series cancelled? Was there some deeper meaning you had to have watched the other episodes to understand? Did the writers just hate the character and used the very last episode as a middle finger to the fanbase?

ToTheNines 09-17-2015 08:52 AM
No, we don't all know. Arse hole.

neatoman 09-17-2015 09:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToTheNines (Post 1502419)
No, we don't all know. Arse hole.
It's just speculation man.

Candy Kappa 09-17-2015 10:34 AM
Nice spoilers...



Spoiler:
Crognard died cause he was dumb enough trying to solo Tiamat, the Evil Queen of Cromatic Dragons
.

NinjaPug 09-17-2015 10:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by neatoman (Post 1502425)
It's just speculation man.
Spoiling what happens to Crognard in an episode that hasn't aired on TV yet isn't speculation.

ToTheNines 09-17-2015 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by neatoman (Post 1502425)
It's just speculation man.
Are ya dense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by neatoman (Post 1502404)
So as we all know at this point, Crognard ended with Crognard getting eaten.

ssjup81 09-17-2015 06:11 PM
You should really put spoiler in the title as well as in your first post as some of us haven't seen it because not everyone can use Nick's site (due to not living in the US or not having cable) and it hasn't aired on television yet. I'm in Japan for goodness sakes...:ohwell:

That aside, I did see the ep.., That shocked me...I just wasn't expecting that and my jaw was hanging...literally. Anyway, about what it possibly symbolized...

Spoiler:
I think it symbolized Zog's outcome. He stuck to his guns because that was what he believed and would "die with honor" to accomplish that goal. Crognard sorta did that too, wouldn't you say? I also think it showed how Zog underestimated not trusting the turtles and working together to take out the Kraang. Crognard went in solo too. He probably would've survived if he had his allies helping him.

JTH 09-17-2015 07:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaPug (Post 1502438)
Spoiling what happens to Crognard in an episode that hasn't aired on TV yet isn't speculation.
Don't tell Cubed this, he'll tell you everything about unaired episodes and seasons is common knowledge, even if you haven't seen or know anything about it...

aliena 09-17-2015 07:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTH (Post 1502537)
Don't tell Cubed this, he'll tell you everything about unaired episodes and seasons is common knowledge, even if you haven't seen or know anything about it...
Maybe Cubed is a writer for the show and pretends to be a super fan with tons of knowledge to throw us all off. Maybe he knows everything that is going to happen all the way to the end. Naw only kidding.:D

aliena 09-17-2015 07:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by neatoman (Post 1502404)
So as we all know at this point, Crognard ended with Crognard getting eaten. Considering the real life purpose of Crognard is to be a foreshadow joke, it's pretty funny but I have to wonder what the in-universe reason for killing Crognard was. Was the series cancelled? Was there some deeper meaning you had to have watched the other episodes to understand? Did the writers just hate the character and used the very last episode as a middle finger to the fanbase?
Spoiler:
I took the meaning to be for all those shows that fans love that end horribly or are slapped together at the last second just to get it over with. There was even some discussion and speculation that the writers were doing that very thing with the Nick show itself.


Crognard was actually pretty stupid even from the start when he made them rush and kill those innocent guys who wanted peace. He was more like an egomaniac who couldn't see reality going on around him. Only Spooch(?) seemed to know what was really going on.

victory_angel 09-18-2015 12:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aliena (Post 1502548)
Crognard was actually pretty stupid even from the start when he made them rush and kill those innocent guys who wanted peace. He was more like an egomaniac who couldn't see reality going on around him. Only Spooch(?) seemed to know what was really going on.
I agree with that. And also there haven't been all that many episodes with Crognard compared to Space Heros and SMRFF.

But I agree with your views about the first episode where Crognard and his companions are essentially beating up those slug people, simply because they were slug people.

ssjup81 09-18-2015 12:36 AM
Guess the lesson here is that being all brawn and no brain will end in tragedy. :-P

That aside, it's interesting how this was the first show where we got to see the ending.

Luckyday 09-18-2015 12:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by victory_angel (Post 1502615)
I agree with that. And also there haven't been all that many episodes with Crognard compared to Space Heros and SMRFF.

But I agree with your views about the first episode where Crognard and his companions are essentially beating up those slug people, simply because they were slug people.
https://33.media.tumblr.com/713e46e0...zz12o1_400.gif

victory_angel 09-18-2015 12:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckyday (Post 1502618)
But it's true isn't it. The Wizardess character just says "I sense danger," and then says "Ew slug people."

However usually in these shows within shows there is an actual threat presented. But the there wasn't any threat presented with the slug people so it looked like Crognard and his companions were slaughtering them for no reason aside from the fact they were Slug People.

Luckyday 09-18-2015 12:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by victory_angel (Post 1502619)
But it's true isn't it. The Wizardess character just says "I sense danger," and then says "Ew slug people."

However usually in these shows within shows there is an actual threat presented. But the there wasn't any threat presented with the slug people so it looked like Crognard and his companions were slaughtering them for no reason aside from the fact they were Slug People.
I know, Angel. I was agreeing with you in outrage. :lol:

Candy Kappa 09-18-2015 04:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by victory_angel (Post 1502615)
But I agree with your views about the first episode where Crognard and his companions are essentially beating up those slug people, simply because they were slug people.
It's very much in line with any people who play Dungeons & Dragons, many skip the role-playing part and just slaughter NPCs and Monsters alike, often making the excuse that the creatures are of evil alignment and it's okay to kill them because "reasons"

The Slug people, could very well be evil by default like Orcs, but this particular tribe was peaceful . The "Heroes" don't care cause they can slaughter the without (at least in their mind) repercussions.

aliena 09-19-2015 12:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssjup81 (Post 1502617)
Guess the lesson here is that being all brawn and no brain will end in tragedy. :-P

That aside, it's interesting how this was the first show where we got to see the ending.
I kept thinking that either the tape would break and pop out of the machine because it was an old VHS tape or someone, or some thing, would burst into the Lair and break the player before they could finish it. :P

MikeandRaph87 09-19-2015 12:47 AM
This may sound silly considering I have seen every episode, but who is Crognard? If a character apparently died it would seem like it would be memorable not questioning who he is

TurtleTitan97 09-19-2015 12:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87 (Post 1502888)
This may sound silly considering I have seen every episode, but who is Crognard? If a character apparently died it would seem like it would be memorable not questioning who he is
This guy, dude:

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/...20141004190433

Haalix 09-19-2015 02:40 AM
Spoiler:
I think it's foreshadowing for the actual season finale. like what happened in the Crognard finale, will happen with one of the TMNT characters.

And by the way Mikey keeps refusing to admit Crognard's death, I think he'll be with whoever dies and not wanting to admit his or her death. Though I think that's Splinter, since almost every spoiler says he'll die.

MikeandRaph87 09-19-2015 07:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleTitan97 (Post 1502890)
I watch the episodes as they air on the DVR and fastforward through both the theme song and the tv show within a tv show not being a fan of either part of the show so it would make sense I would not know. Cant like everything about the series. Thanks for the clear up.

kolaida 09-20-2015 09:36 PM
Well, now we know, lol

Toadtrooper 09-21-2015 12:52 AM
It was foreshadowing of course
Spoiler:
(somebody "biting it;" the whole flying away thing).


But it's also a commentary on how most series finales suck.

Kingoji 09-26-2015 05:15 AM
My personal interpretation?

Spoiler:
Each of the TV shows has been something of a meta reference to one of the Turtles themselves. Space Heores was often used as an obvious and deliberate parallel to Leonardo developing his role as team leader, Super Robot Mecha Force Five often echoed Donatello's development both in his engineering and in his relationship with April, and Crognard is a fairly Raphael-oriented show with it's reckless, hot-headed protagonist who often does bad things for good reasons.

the relevance of the finale in particular? Crognard refuses to listen to his team and in doing so ends up facing the end of his life. Raph stubbornly ignores his brothers warnings and becomes responsible for the Triceraton Invasion and all that entailed. Which is, essentially, the end of life as he knew it.

ssjup81 09-26-2015 07:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingoji (Post 1504732)
My personal interpretation?

Spoiler:
Each of the TV shows has been something of a meta reference to one of the Turtles themselves. Space Heores was often used as an obvious and deliberate parallel to Leonardo developing his role as team leader, Super Robot Mecha Force Five often echoed Donatello's development both in his engineering and in his relationship with April, and Crognard is a fairly Raphael-oriented show with it's reckless, hot-headed protagonist who often does bad things for good reasons.

the relevance of the finale in particular? Crognard refuses to listen to his team and in doing so ends up facing the end of his life. Raph stubbornly ignores his brothers warnings and becomes responsible for the Triceraton Invasion and all that entailed. Which is, essentially, the end of life as he knew it.
This is actually a really good theory. You're actually right.

Luckyday 09-26-2015 09:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssjup81 (Post 1504737)
This is actually a really good theory. You're actually right.
If he/she is right then Raph is
Spoiler:
going to be one who has a huge survivor's guilt in season 4.
I would be a little wary/skeptical on how the writers can handle that.

senpai 09-26-2015 08:47 PM
Some things just are. I'm not bringing too much meaning into something that was mainly done for a laugh. The only thing my brain took away from the scene was life is delicate. Even the mightiest fall eventually...

Spoiler:
Not like Splinter or anything because obviously the time traveling biz will bring him back or something idk

MsMarvelDuckie 09-26-2015 10:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Candy Kappa (Post 1502637)
It's very much in line with any people who play Dungeons & Dragons, many skip the role-playing part and just slaughter NPCs and Monsters alike, often making the excuse that the creatures are of evil alignment and it's okay to kill them because "reasons"

The Slug people, could very well be evil by default like Orcs, but this particular tribe was peaceful . The "Heroes" don't care cause they can slaughter the without (at least in their mind) repercussions.

I don't know about yours, but that sort of thing would NEVER fly in my game groups. I spent 18+ years as a DM, and only ONCE did something like that happen- and I penalized the players responsible by throwing some very strong and immediate repercussions at them, that actually ended that entire campaign before it ever really got started. They learned quickly not to pull that kind of crap in my games!

As for my current group that I'm a player in, the DM is pretty much the same, and really encourages us to think about things before we go in. But then, several of us are veteran players or DM's ourselves, so we know what to expect, and not to take things at face value.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingoji (Post 1504732)
My personal interpretation?

Spoiler:
Each of the TV shows has been something of a meta reference to one of the Turtles themselves. Space Heores was often used as an obvious and deliberate parallel to Leonardo developing his role as team leader, Super Robot Mecha Force Five often echoed Donatello's development both in his engineering and in his relationship with April, and Crognard is a fairly Raphael-oriented show with it's reckless, hot-headed protagonist who often does bad things for good reasons.

The relevance of the finale in particular? Crognard refuses to listen to his team and in doing so ends up facing the end of his life. Raph stubbornly ignores his brothers warnings and becomes responsible for the Triceraton Invasion and all that entailed. Which is, essentially, the end of life as he knew it.

That's an interesting theory. Although, it could be Zog, too.

Shark_Blade 09-27-2015 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingoji (Post 1504732)
My personal interpretation?

Spoiler:
Each of the TV shows has been something of a meta reference to one of the Turtles themselves. Space Heores was often used as an obvious and deliberate parallel to Leonardo developing his role as team leader, Super Robot Mecha Force Five often echoed Donatello's development both in his engineering and in his relationship with April, and Crognard is a fairly Raphael-oriented show with it's reckless, hot-headed protagonist who often does bad things for good reasons.

the relevance of the finale in particular? Crognard refuses to listen to his team and in doing so ends up facing the end of his life. Raph stubbornly ignores his brothers warnings and becomes responsible for the Triceraton Invasion and all that entailed. Which is, essentially, the end of life as he knew it.
That's very interesting. Though Crognard himself died, but Raph didn't; instead the whole world died. :teek: Does that signify anything..? Hmm..

I can't wait to see what tv series is up for next season. From your theory it would be parallel to Michelangelo, so... it must be a 80/90s cartoon series with a team... Captain Planet? Powerpuff Girls? X-Men? Chip & Dale Rescue Rangers?

I'm just blindly shooting after googling them up now.. :tlol:

Luckyday 09-27-2015 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark_Blade (Post 1504946)
That's very interesting. Though Crognard himself died, but Raph didn't; instead the whole world died. :teek: Does that signify anything..? Hmm..

I can't wait to see what tv series is up for next season. From your theory it would be parallel to Michelangelo, so... it must be a 80/90s cartoon series with a team... Captain Planet? Powerpuff Girls? X-Men? Chip & Dale Rescue Rangers?

I'm just blindly shooting after googling them up now.. :tlol:
What if it's a 80's zany sitcom that has a laugh track?

Shark_Blade 09-27-2015 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckyday (Post 1504950)
What if it's a 80's zany sitcom that has a laugh track?
That'd be different indeed, though I'm only basing on previous trend of shows the boys are watching: all comprises of teams. :tsmile:

Let's say it's a sitcom (like Friends, maybe?), how do they shoehorn an enemy threat or teamwork lessons?

Galactus 09-27-2015 10:39 AM
All this makes me wonder if they'll have a token tv show next season during the space based arc.

Maybe an alien tv show like Stump Intergalactic Wrestling or perhaps since tv signals from Earth keep carrying into space maybe Honycutt's ship or wherever they are based picks up old tv Earth to shows.

Kingoji 09-27-2015 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark_Blade (Post 1504946)
That's very interesting. Though Crognard himself died, but Raph didn't; instead the whole world died. :teek: Does that signify anything..? Hmm..

I can't wait to see what tv series is up for next season. From your theory it would be parallel to Michelangelo, so... it must be a 80/90s cartoon series with a team... Captain Planet? Powerpuff Girls? X-Men? Chip & Dale Rescue Rangers?

I'm just blindly shooting after googling them up now.. :tlol:
I like the idea of an anthro-animal adventure show, which Mikey absolutely hates.

turtle1237 09-27-2015 02:03 PM
Just because Crognard got eating does not mean he was killed.

I seen Thundarr get eating by a creature or 2 and he turns out ok.
I believe even He-man got eating.

victory_angel 09-28-2015 12:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle1237 (Post 1505010)
Just because Crognard got eating does not mean he was killed.

I seen Thundarr get eating by a creature or 2 and he turns out ok.
I believe even He-man got eating.
But that particular episode of Crognard was marketed as the absolute last episode of the show. Mikey and Leo even do a web search to see if there at least one more episode, or at least a Movie.


And to quote the scene:

Donnie: Raph's not pickin' up....maybe he's in trouble.

Leo: Any luck on your end, Mikey?

Mikey: (Skimming Computer screen) Nada, the Crognard fan sites all say that really was the last episode. What a bust!

Leo: I mean have you found, Raph? (Looks at Computer screen) Really there wasn't any movie or something after....

(Leo is interrupted by Rockwell)

Since there was nothing after that final episode that means Crognard is for all intents and purposes...deceased.

turtle1237 09-28-2015 02:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by victory_angel (Post 1505139)
But that particular episode of Crognard was marketed as the absolute last episode of the show. Mikey and Leo even do a web search to see if there at least one more episode, or at least a Movie.


And to quote the scene:

Donnie: Raph's not pickin' up....maybe he's in trouble.

Leo: Any luck on your end, Mikey?

Mikey: (Skimming Computer screen) Nada, the Crognard fan sites all say that really was the last episode. What a bust!

Leo: I mean have you found, Raph? (Looks at Computer screen) Really there wasn't any movie or something after....

(Leo is interrupted by Rockwell)

Since there was nothing after that final episode that means Crognard is for all intents and purposes...deceased.
It was 1980's cheese, a little thing like getting eating is not going to kill you. Perhaps the show got cancel before Crognard punch his way free, it happens.

MsMarvelDuckie 09-28-2015 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle1237 (Post 1505149)
It was 1980's cheese, a little thing like getting eating is not going to kill you. Perhaps the show got cancel before Crognard punch his way free, it happens.

Not so. This last episode mirrors the old Dungeons and Dragons cartoon series pretty blatantly with the dragon intended to look like Tiamat (and the slug people episode did this, too- there was a D&D episode that had a similar situation, but with different results), and characters certainly got killed in it! Also, I recall at least one or two deaths in both He-Man and even She-Ra as well. He didn't just get swallowed. There were crunching sounds, and his crown was spit out by the dragon! Anyone who's ever played D&D will tell you there's not coming back from that one....

turtle1237 09-28-2015 09:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie (Post 1505305)
Not so. This last episode mirrors the old Dungeons and Dragons cartoon series pretty blatantly with the dragon intended to look like Tiamat (and the slug people episode did this, too- there was a D&D episode that had a similar situation, but with different results), and characters certainly got killed in it! Also, I recall at least one or two deaths in both He-Man and even She-Ra as well. He didn't just get swallowed. There were crunching sounds, and his crown was spit out by the dragon! Anyone who's ever played D&D will tell you there's not coming back from that one....
I never saw the Dungeons and Dragons cartoon series, but in Thundarr ,Ariel was eating by a fire whale with sharp teeth(Don't ask what a fire whale is, its the 1980's lol)

By all Rights Ariel should have died, but no not in Thundarr, he just goes over punches it a few times, opens its mouth and Ariel is free lol.

We saw Crognard get impale, If he can take a spear or in this case, LOTS of spears in the chest, than he can lived though getting eating.

TurtleTitan97 09-28-2015 09:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle1237 (Post 1505010)
Just because Crognard got eating does not mean he was killed.

I seen Thundarr get eating by a creature or 2 and he turns out ok.
I believe even He-man got eating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by victory_angel (Post 1505139)
But that particular episode of Crognard was marketed as the absolute last episode of the show. Mikey and Leo even do a web search to see if there at least one more episode, or at least a Movie.


And to quote the scene:

Donnie: Raph's not pickin' up....maybe he's in trouble.

Leo: Any luck on your end, Mikey?

Mikey: (Skimming Computer screen) Nada, the Crognard fan sites all say that really was the last episode. What a bust!

Leo: I mean have you found, Raph? (Looks at Computer screen) Really there wasn't any movie or something after....

(Leo is interrupted by Rockwell)

Since there was nothing after that final episode that means Crognard is for all intents and purposes...deceased.
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle1237 (Post 1505149)
It was 1980's cheese, a little thing like getting eating is not going to kill you. Perhaps the show got cancel before Crognard punch his way free, it happens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle1237 (Post 1505351)
I never saw the Dungeons and Dragons cartoon series, but in Thundarr ,Ariel was eating by a fire whale with sharp teeth(Don't ask what a fire whale is, its the 1980's lol)

By all Rights Ariel should have died, but no not in Thundarr, he just goes over punches it a few times, opens its mouth and Ariel is free lol.

We saw Crognard get impale, If he can take a spear or in this case, LOTS of spears in the chest, than he can lived though getting eating.
You must be incredibly naïve to actually believe this. Crognard's dead, gotta learn to deal with it.

Just out of curiosity, how old are you?

turtle1237 09-28-2015 09:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleTitan97 (Post 1505354)
You must be incredibly naïve to actually believe this. Crognard's dead, gotta learn to deal with it.

Just out of curiosity, how old are you?
To see He-man and Thundarr lol. Well Reruns of the shows any way since my child hood ran for most the old Toon Ninja Turtles run.

Crognard, Yes I saw him get eating, I heard the crunching noises, but you have to remember, THIS IS A 1980's cartoon. We saw Crognard get impale, and perhaps off screen, burn, axe, cut up, and what ever else his enemies thrown at him. A little thing like getting eating is not going to kill a 1980's cartoon hero.


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