Movie Decisions Someone Should've Been Fired For
 

Saw this article and TMNT 3 was mention in it.
http://www.looper.com/3109/movie-dec...houldve-fired/

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles III (1993) - Adding Time Travel

The filmmakers behind Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles III didn't want to just rehash what had already been done in the first and second movies, which are about the ninja turtles fighting the foot clan. The third movie, on the other hand, is about the turtles time traveling to feudal Japan. It's such an insane jump that comes out of nowhere. The movie was a disaster, and it's all because of the time travel story. It's understandable for a sequel to try new things. At least make those things fit in with the other movies in the series.

"Movie Decisions Someone Should've Been Fired For"...

I'll just copy and paste the entire Platinum Dunes TMNT discussion threads into this post, shall I? :twink:

Not TMNT related but...
Removing Richard Donner from the Superman movie franchise.

Not allowing Sam Raimi to push his script through for Spider-man 4 instead deciding to reboot the movie franchise.

TMNT related? I love Ninja Turtles (1990) and Secret of The Ooze. Its too hard to say as I am not as crazy for the others. Need Shredder and stronger scripts that the other two had.

"It's such an insane jump that comes out of nowhere"

Not for actual fans who have, ya know, read a comic, watched an episode, etc. Time Travel is a huge deal in TMNT lore. What a dipsh*t.

Yeah, whoever wrote the article probably never read any of the comics.

There were several time travel episodes in the Fred Wolf cartoon, too, so they must have little to no TMNT knowledge whatsoever.

Yeah, time travel has always been a part of TMNT, but not a major part.

Not on the same level as Dr. Who lol, but pretty important.

On the contrary, I would argue it's one of the larger themes.

How is it a major part? Other than the various Renet escapes in Mirage Volume 1 (especially Masks) and Renet and April in Volume 4, I can't really think of any other major time-travel escapades...

It might have been better if Lord Norinaga was an ancestor of Oroku Saki at least. Like Lord Oroku Norinaga.

I really don't wanna sit here & recall how many time travel stories there are in each universe, can you just trust me when I say there are tons? :tlol: Mind you, time travel includes parallel universes, alternate realities, the passage of time (like Mirage books that focus on elder TMNT) etc. There are whole versions of the turtles based around it, Turtles In Time, Fast Forward, Turtles Forever, the third film, obviously. Mirage has literally tens of issues dealing with it, so too does Archie (let's not forget the young turtles kicking it with their older selves). 4kids adapted some of the Mirage stories but also created their own which would become classics, like Same As It Never Was. The OT had our boys go back & witness the creation of their clan, show their worn-down older selves how to kick shell anew, etc. It's all over. IDW & Nick have already done some tales like that & show signs of diving further into the topic.

When you think about the TMNT, the most commonly seen themes are:

Ninja/Samurai material
Outer space
Monsters
Time travel
Spirituality
Nature
Mobsters

As I've said before, I like TMNT3 more than most people. I always have. As a kid, it was even kinda my favorite of the bunch from time to time.

Whatever problems were unique to the 3rd movie had almost everything to do with the execution, not the general concept. The costumes had a big part of it, and I think it does kinda fall into the generic "90s attitude in medieval times" mold that characterized so many of the movies of that era.

Dropping the Blue Door script completely, rather than simply changing it to be traditional in origin.

Post from another thread as to why I think this:

While I would've rather gotten the Blue Door script, the fact something like it even exists beyond some weirdo's fan-fiction is a grand offense.

Whoever thought all that crap on Donatello looked good.

Absofeckinglutely.

TMNT 2 changing TGRI to TCRI still makes me dislike the original movieverse. That's what was supposed to be the secret of the ooze (could still have been an accident), it's extraterrestrial origin!

I don't think the "time-travel" plot ruined Turtles 3. What ruined it was- Bad writing, crappy looking costumes, horrible villains that didn't even belong in that time period, no villains from the comics/cartoons/ etc., horrible jokes, only 3 fight scenes in the whole movie and only one of which involved all of the turtles, need I go on?

PD Ninja Turtles is a much better film than Turtles 3... which really isn't saying much. Both movies suffered from the same thing- 1. Trying to be too ambitious with poorly written scripts that didn't focus on what was really important. 2. Trying to dumb it down for kids, completely forgetting that kids loved the first movie.

Maybe visually. But TMNT 3 is better acted, written/characterized, edited, it follows through on it's plots, which have no holes... :trazz:

That's what I think too. Have a version of the Foot Clan and a relative of Saki. That's all it would've taken to tie it in with the franchise.

Couldn't agree more. Really, the only thing wrong with it was the costuming and the dated humor. And the story actually made sense.



But they did that- with Casey/Whit and Mitsu's little brother Yoshi. Pretty clear ties, IMHO. I sort of got the impression it was meant to be the beginning of Hamato Yoshi's family, since we are never told Mitsu and little Yoshi's surname.... Whit was pretty obviously Casey's ancestor or at least a previous incarnation- take your pick.

I always assumed that as well. It helps me enjoy TMNT III. I still think TMNT III would be taken better with Henson suits.

No doubt. Honestly, aside fromt he slight google-eye thing they had going, they weren't really even that bad. And going overboard on the spots. That sort of bothered me too.

I disagree that they are hinting at there being any relation to Saki and I think the Casey thing was obviously a previous incarnation or something, BUT how does that really tie in to the storyline like it would have if we had the Foot? Casey's possible ancestor is completely unnecessary and does nothing for the plot.

You misunderstood. I wasn't referring to Saki or the Foot, but to Hamato Yoshi. Which is the only tie they would need, really. Without him being born, there would have been no rivalry to begin with! Mitsu seemed suspiciously ninja-like (kunoichi?) so it's possible her family began the teachings that later led to the ninja clan that Hamato Yoshi belonged to. Why does everything always have to tie to the Foot, anyway? They aren't the ONLY enemies in TMNT lore, after all, and the third movie clearly was its own thing apart from the Foot right from the start. It was about the Time Scepter, not Shredder. Not everything HAS to revolve around him! :trolleye:

Edit: And yes, Whit was actually pretty crucial to the plot. He got in with April and the turtles (spy), he stole the scepter after they found it, and he delivered it to Walker AND kidnapped Mitsu! Walker had been planning on blackmailing or bribing Norinaga with it, which is why he told him he didn't have it, even though he knew Whit had it. Pretty major role there.

I see what you mean about Splinter now. Now I think you've misunderstood me though haha. I was saying that Whit being related to Casey in any way has nothing to do with the plot in the same way that showing how the Foot got started or how Saki's family took power happened.

And their goofy, giant teeth and flappy-open mouths, and balloon rubber skin...

No, I didn't misunderstand that at all. It just wasn't relevant tot he plot. Saki was dead, and had nothing to do with the story at all. Why would they need to include anything about his family in that case? It would serve no purpose. Casey, on the other hand, DID, especially since he was (semi)actively involved in the plot. So having ties to the past made sense for him. Also, April was the one who decided to take Whit along, precisely BECAUSE of his resemblance to Casey. Yet there was no way for Walker to know that! So yes, there was plenty of reason to have him there.

There are some things I like about TMNT III mainly it focused on Mikey and we see he can be more than the funny guy the original movie touched on it but not to the degree 3 did.

They didn't drop it completely. There's quite a lot from that script in the finished movie.

Not really a *******. It just doesn't make sense for the average movie goer, especially after the context of the first 2 movies.

I mean to be fair, time travel hits every comic book sooner or later. But you kinda can't go from 2 movies that were more or less grounded in reality to all of a sudden time travel. I mean, talking turtles aside, they can't go from fighting a street gang, then a street gang and 2 evil mutants... to TIME TRAVEL!!! WHOOOOOO!!!!

Doesn't work that way in cinema unless you kinda hint crazy stuff like this is bound to happen. Hell, had they kept the alien utrom in Secret of the Ooze that would have opened the door to more weirdness beyond just mutants in an otherwise realistic setting and made time travel less insane in comparison.

I mean, Batman has also traveled through time and fought aliens in other worlds and dimensions.... you can't just up and make Batman Returns about Batman going through space and whatnot.

Even X-Men did it's time travel movie in what is essentially a part 5 to the series. Audiences probably wouldn't have taken too kindly to it if X2 was already throwing all that **** out there.

The average movie goer would have been fans (children) who have, ya know, read a comic, watched an episode etc.

So your point doesn't really stand.

Yes it does. Almost every fictional character goes through all of that crap, time travel, other worlds/dimensions, evil clones, blah blah blah. Movie adaptations mostly stick to the core of the series, which in this case is TMNT VS the Foot Clan.

Again, Batman did all of that stuff and more, noone would have taken a Batman time travel story seriously if Batman Returns was about that. Hell, Venom in Spider-Man 3 was a jump since despite all the weird accidents, throwing aliens into the mix was too out there. Sure, that's how it was in the comics, but Spidey faces aliens, clones and demons every other week there. Nothing was established in the first 2 movies that aliens and whatnot were part of the equation.

Marvel dodged the bullet since their movies, right off the bat dealt with other worlds and alien invasions and people from different time periods and whatnot. Making a time travel movie with them wouldn't seen so outlandish.

Every TMNT series starts off semi-grounded & becomes gradually more absurd & science-fictiony. So, still...

But you gotta work your way up. Even the comics starred with the Turtles fighting foot ninjas on the rooftops before they saw the TCRI sign. And before that they fought killer robots. What works in comics doesn't work for movies unless you already have them fighting triceratoms in part 2 or something.

Clearly it did work, considering it was a commercial success.

"You gotta work your way up"....umm you mean like having 2 films prior fight nothing but foot ninjas then add the sci-fi Time travel element in the third film? Oh wait, that's exactly what they did.

At least that way it would have been a worthwhile secret. Compared to the secret that it came from a lab. What a twist!