PD TMNT what's relatable?
 

So thinking it over, I'm still not sure what they were going for. Generally speaking for the key demographic there's supposed to be something relatable to draw you into the movie/story, and I don't see it.

I'm not using it as a trash thread but really want to hear your feedback.

First and foremost they're teenagers, no teenager looks like that unless they're on roids.

The way they act to an extent I guess I could see that, to the most obnoxious of people out there. The hipster glasses, I could see. But i don't see what there is to relate to the key demo they were going for.

Platinum Dunes specializes in hyper-masculine wish-fulfillment.
That's what's relatable: the idea that all men want to be musclebound heroes who save the hot girl.

This. Apparently, we're supposed to relate to drooling over Megan Fox. And Orange Crush soda. And Pizza Hut.

I'm not sure they were focusing on trying to make the Turtles relateable sadly, and imo probably why Fox was kind of the center of it if they themselves can't relate to the Turtles nor understand that fans do.

yup.

/thread

Yep, that's true :)

Some women do too, but instead beat a dead horse through passive aggressive posts like this, ignoring the deeper issues.

LGBT rights do not come at the cost of everyone else's. Get over it. Jesus.

The movie sucked, agreed. I hate the film too, but it would not have been a better film if gender roles were reversed, or if the camera hovered over Arnett's butt instead of Fox. Arnett wasn't given better lines of dialogue, in fact NO ONE said anything worth while in the entire 101 minutes. The action scenes would still be a mess, and the plot wouldn't make one more iota of sense.

I loathe this film, but it retains very few tropes of past Bay prods.

You have a point, and at times I'm on your side, but sometimes you're just flag waving.

This made my day. You owe me a new computer, 42, because I just spewed coffee all over it. :tlol:

Settle down, Beevis.

Great, now MORE coffee is dripping down my keyboard. You guys are both helping me stay awake during a very boring Thursday afternoon. :tlol:

Thank you both.

And to divert for a moment, on 42's previous comment "some women do, too", I wonder when we're going to get this take on a fairy tale? I mean, we're getting tons of Cinderella, Snow White, Sleeping Beauty etc retellings but none of them are moving beyond previously established gender/ethnic/sexual "norms." Wonder when that'll change, and who will be the first to dip their toe in the water? Probably not Disney...

Oh, one more thing.

I think it is the height of irony that someone with a profile picture of Donald Trump is arguing with a member promoting gender equality. I mean, that is hilarious. :tlol:

No? Just me?

You mean where a musclebound woman saves a hot chick?
I don't know, but my money is there for the taking! Get on that, Hollywood!

I briefly thought about going through PD's entire production run and cross referencing the major tropes of those productions with the ones found in the 2014 TMNT movie, but...I don't have that kind of time.

So on the off chance someone else does:

http://www.imdb.com/company/co0071240/?ref_=fn_al_co_1

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...njaTurtles2014

Have at!
Though...I am so not responsible should you fall down a TV Tropes rabbit hole.


Update:
And no, that's not ironic.
And my initial post wasn't passive aggressive.

I was thinking more the female equivalents of Jack Harkness and Ianto Jones, not necessarily ripped musclebound Amazons.

Well, whatever it is, irony or just funny, I found it hilarious. Now I just want to hear C42 say something about building a wall to keep out BayTurtle fans. :tlol:

Sure thing, Sweetheart.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3VMFWSIIAEAzu2.jpg

This movie wasn't made for us, geeks, it was made for jocks. So the appeal is to them, I guess. Military wank, "hot babe", flashy stuff, guns, car chases, etc.

Re-read my f*cking post man. Gender issues are not the reason PDMT sucked. That's my point. Two off color comments in a movie don't paint the entire film. April was the protagonist. It was her story. She didn't rely on a man to solve her problems. Like it or not, it's not what Plastron was claiming. It WAS mindless, but mindless directionless stories is not distinctly the providence of one sex or the other(s). A badly made film is both gender and colorblind.

But yeah, infer the maxim, and turn me into a right wing douche, just because I'm not towing the extreme left party line.

There are degrees of outrage, but Plastron is always primed and set to 11. I'm calling them out on their BS. Again.

But I'm not sure if we should have Hollywood do strong women. I mean we let Nintendo of Japan try and luckily we got Midna but the catch we got Metroid The other M.

Settle down, my man! I'm not saying gender issues are why PDMT sucked. I do agree that PD's target audience is the meathead jock, hence all the flag-waving, hot babes, flashy cars, etc etc.

And believe me, I'm not turning you into a rightwing douche or a leftwing douche. I simply find it funny that some guy has Donald Trump as his profile pic (a man who the media has portrayed numerous times as offending women) arguing with some gal who is always bringing up gender equality issues in the forums.

That's a visual spectacle that amuses the hell out of me. Nothing to do with the politics of you or Plastron. Seriously, am I the only one who's finding this funny? I guess so...

Point is, it's like claiming Mad Max was ONLY good because of it's strong female characters. That is such a disservice to the film. It politicizes and colors the whole thing as propaganda. It ignores the incredible accomplishment, of the director and the crew, of making a great film, in todays studio climate. The STORY isn't great - but the STORY TELLING is top notch. This is what's sadly missing from PDMT, and the bulk of this generations films. How you tell your story is entirely the point of making a film. It doesn't matter who your lead is, or who the story features - if you do your job, it's compelling, interesting, and worthy of praise. Everything else should be secondary, as they all require good story telling to be of any value, at all.

Well, I do agree to a point that there is, overall, a lack of female protagonists comparatively. The Avengers roster, for example, was five white guys and Scarlet Jo up until the end of Avengers 2, when we got another white guy, a second girl, and an android. And a dozen MCU films later, and we STILL don't have a single solid female lead for a movie. Does that detract my enjoyment of the films? Not really. But would I absolutely appreciate and enjoy a film starring Black Widow, or Scarlet Witch, or Wasp? Of course.

And I still agree 100% with PlastronCafe that Michael Bay's target audience is dumb jocks, who just wanna see cleavage, explosions, cars, and the American flag. And, apparently, robot testicles. That target audience got carried over from Transformers to TMNT, and all true TMNT fans rued the day Michael F'ing Bay got involved with our beloved mutants.

At the end of the day, and I think you and I agree on this, the one defining feature of a story, whether movie, TV show, book, or comic, is the strength of the writing and the writer. Good actors can't do much for a terrible script; but an amazing script can still carry substandard acting.

Will they pay for the wall to keep themselves out?



Anyhow... how 'bout them relateables. Or lack there of.

I disagree with the notion that good writing makes for a good movie.
Great movies can come from mediocre writing, I'm thinking of Fight Club just as an example. The book? Nothing special. The movie is phenomenal.

And a good chunk of that is due to the director.
You can take the greatest script written, but give it to a bad director with no vision and who doesn't know how to get a great performance out of his cast and you'll get garbage.

Back on topic.
I didn't find a whole lot to relate to with the PD 2014 movie, which...isn't all that surprising given that I'm the furthest thing from the target audience.
Not that I need to relate to a movie to get enjoyment out of it...

Easier for a good script to be in the hands of a poor director than a poor script in the hands of a good director, methinks.

Yeeep...

I can relate to wanting a cool lair like the one they have, & being motivated by pizza, I guess? I'm reaching, but it's an honest effort.

It's also not anything close to exclusive to this version. That's just me relating to the TMNT in general, I guess.

I think only a hoarder could relate to having a wall-to-wall block of stereos. What, did the Turtles rip off an entire electronics store? There's got to be at least one hundred stereos on that wall. Maybe even 150 or 200.

Glad to say, I don't relate to people who have seventeen dead cats in their apartment. :tlol:

Ok, I relate to Leo's button. :tlol: If I saw it somewhere I'd probably pick it up too. Oh, and blue-eyed club.

I also wear shoes like 3 out of 4 or them.

Since the Turtles were not even allowed outside of the house, I want a montage short of Splinter dragging all that stuff - including the irrational amount of boom boxes - home, because it had to be him. lol

Giant rat finding and rolling a disco ball home... I wish to see this. But how'd he agree to keep bringing home boom boxes. You're a parent, it's ok to say ENOUGH.

I ride a hover board.

I agree with everything, except for the part where you suggest the book was nothing special. It was an almost flawless translation to the screen of Palahunick's writing. Unless you read the book first, it was hard to not endure a sense of Deja-vu.

Cylon - Writers always feel writing is the most important component. No surprise there. :lol:

The reason I always stick up for Bay, no matter what anyone says, is his understanding of visual storytelling. Yes he has poor taste, yes, the writing is base, but he get's camera language. He knows how to cut a scene. He's a master of visuals.

It's a hard point to argue without getting roasted, but if you take the time to actually watch what he's doing and how he's cutting shot's together, it's symphonic. There are heaps of similarities between Mad Max's action and the Bay's action. The language is the same.

But we didn't get that - ANY of that in TMNT. We got flat out garbage. In fact, any film Bay has Produced, is garbage.

It's hard to give the devil his due, but you really shouldn't paint people with one stroke. For all his Crimes, Bay does one thing well; big action-sequences and set pieces.
TMNT is made for amazing action - but the action needs to mean something. Bay could have delivered on that. Instead Liebseman took us for a sleigh ride, and taught us physics are for chumps.

:tlol: Splinter may whup their shells for sneaking out of the lair, but he's totally cool with lugging home disco balls, Beatz headphones, Ghostbusters cosplay costumes, entire CRATES of Orange Crush, and 101 Dalma--sorry, stereos.

Y'know what would be even stranger? The Turtles sneaking out and stealing a stereo every night, and then somehow convincing Splinter they're NOT leaving the lair.

"we found another stereo in the south junction, Sensei!"
"What, another stereo, my son? This is... the seventy-seventh?"
"Yes, Sensei."
"And it's in perfect working order?"
"Uh... that's right, Sensei."
"... Extraordinary."
"So... is it okay if I leave the lair tonight?"
"YOU WILL NOT LEAVE!" <karate chop>

I want a hover board. :tsad:

Absolutely 100% guilty as charged. :tlol:

I'll agree he's actually capable of producing good movies. "The Island" still baffles me in that it was actually created by Michael Bay. Can't wrap my head around that.

However, I think if he were a true master of visuals, he'd have made the Transformers easier to tell apart other than "Bumblebee, Megatron, Optimus Prime, and... those two little racist robots. And the one with the beard."

Go back and watch it again man. it's such a bunch of bull. You can totally tell who's who. There's NO shakey cam in the first two TF films. he establishes the action well.

Don't let the internet revise history for you.

This opinion is my own. I watched Transformers 1, and it was enough for me. I could not tell any of the 'Bots apart whenever they were fighting. Having watched the CinemaSins videos on all four movies, I have seen enough of the other three movies to find that I personally still cannot tell any of them apart in action sequences.

When they're standing still, I can tell them apart as Jazz, Bumblebee, Megatron, and Optimus Prime. Those are the only ones that I, a casual audience who is not a TF fan, can identify.

But as far as shakycam, no, none that I recall. And his camera angles and work is quite cinematic and exciting; I can see the same style between Transformers, TMNT, and The Island. But in the Transformers films, I can't tell who the hell any of the 'Bots are.

Transformers would have been a much better movie if it'd been a story about a kid and his car. Leave the other extraneous plots for sequels. It's a jumbled mess of tropes and caricatures. All flash, no bang.

Wish fulfillment.
Which in and of itself isn't bad, but in this case it had no depth. Unlike Fury Road, which was both gorgeous to look at and had people in it.

You're allowed that opinion, but as you've admitted to only watching TF1 - I can say, having seen all 4 (4 being admittedly a huge waste of time) that there isn't ANY similarity between Liebeseman and Bay. I'll grant you the distinctions between bots is less obvious, but I guess I'm also the guy that wants all the turtles to look the same. We'll agree to disagree.

Liebsman does the upclose shakeycam thing - a crutch for someone who doesn't know how to film matching action. Bay rarely does.

I do wish we'd gotten the designs from 1984 - but that's probably my nostalgia talking :)

:tlol: A lot of stuff in those sewers. So many tv/computer monitors just slip right through the storm grates. Surfboards, too. (Hell, they own a bumper car - I want answers. lol)

TF1 wasn't so much about the boy and =his car, as it was about bringing TF into the real world - it was as much spectacle as Mad Max, maybe more as, at that time, giant robots in live action, at that level of realism, was pretty novel.
Beyond that though, it had nothing to offer. It WAS wish fulfilment of every kid who owned those toys. Optimus was suddenly real.

Now, if they'd taken more of The TF lore, it's weird political musings, and included more of the actual story from the cartoon, it could have been something really special. There should never have been a story about a boy and his car, or possibly even a boy.

I loved the hell out of Mad Max - But the story fell apart at the mid point. I was locked in, loving all the crazy, gorgeous visuals, grotesque creatures, the hyper adrenaline - trying to keep up with the breakneck pace. My problem, is that it doesn't really pay off properly. It was this awesome set up, then we drift for a bit, then the entire thing in reverse, then the end. I'm aware the originals are similar, but still, I would have sat there for another hour, to get some sort of plot development, have it go some where. For what it was, it was beautiful, great storytelling, higest calibur of difficulty - but missing some follow through.

Damn, rewatching that fight scene from TF2. How can you make giant robots fighting so boring?

I like the scene where Optimus died......Did I just admit I like the scene when the fighting was over as opposed to the actual fight itself?

That's odd, I had no trouble telling them apart, except for one or two of the minor characters, and the fact that Starscream did NOT look (or sound) like he should have. But most of the rest did. Decepti-balls notwithstanding.

And I will agree with CKD that writing IS if not THE most important part of a good movie, it's at least in the top three. Without the story, there IS no movie, since cinema is story-telling, at its heart. A good story may suffer in the hands of a bad director (gods know that plenty of book adaptations have suffered from this) but a BAD story, even in the hands of a good director, is STILL a BAD story. It just LOOKS pretty.

I completely disagree. Reason? Shakespeare.

Proof it's how the story is told, not the quality of the writing.

It's lost some of it's luster since I saw it in IMAX, for sure - but remember, at the time EVERYONE argued the fight scenes was too frenetic and spastic. It's all relative.
Still beats the impossibly boring Pacific RIM.

Best sequence of all the TF films are still these:

I'm with Commenter 42. You can have a great story for your film, but it's all moot if you can't communicate it effectively to your audience.

I enjoyed Pirates of the Caribbean 3. Most people, I understand, did not. That I believe is because the film's plot is very thick, with layers and layers of information and subplots. Very detailed and thought-out. Good story? Yes, I suppose. But the pacing was a little too fast (even for a 2-and-a-half hour film!) and if you left the room for a few minutes you could easily become lost, and it's that much harder to enjoy the film.