"Kuno-each"
 

How has this show gone three seasons maintaining this moronic bastardization of Japanese? It's almost outrageous to think that with someone working on it who said the Turtles got her into Ninjutsu back in the 1980s, they continue to be ignorant on this bit. Someone, like Black Nerd, should call them out on this non-word.

What word, exactly? I'm lost.

The word Kunoichi.

Oh, that word April calls herself? OK.

Kunoichi is a term for a female Shinobi, derived from the three characters that resembles the strokes off the kanji for woman: 女. ku (く) - no (ノ) - ichi (一). the last I in Ichi is often unvoiced and silent.

A lot of Japanese, when spoken, leaves out the last vowel. Sounds more natural when spoken by a real Japanese speaker, rather than Whitman's "kuno-each" lol.

Sternin did say his Sensei at his dojo pronounces it as such.

Yep, it's being pronounced the traditional way, just sounds awkward coming from a gaijin. :tlol:

So it is you who is ignorant.

This thread is way too anime for me. Never thought we'd have a discussion of Japanese terms on a TMNT forum.

I feel like I'm on some anime dub website.

Never imagined that on a TMNT forum? With the Japanese touches that have always been a part of it? I wouldn't say it's really too surprising that it might turn up.

Otherwise, yeah I'm lost, but interesting discussion.

TMNT was created by two Americans who had little to no knowledge of Japan beyond Bruce Lee films.

That's why they didn't know Japanese names, barely had Splinter use any Japanese words in the comics, and why all the early stuff barely has any Japanese elements beyond the Foot being generic ninja's.

Seriously, TMNT was created by two guys who had no clue about Japan. Remember this is in the 80's before anime was even a thing in the U.S.

Thanks for contributing....

****ing buffoon.

I'm guessing you don't remember Voltron, Starblazers or Robotech.... Akira is another.

For that matter, we can add the 60's and 70's Astro Boy and Speed Racer to the list!

Japanese = Anime according to Cubed. At least know the definition of anime before saying that. Anime just can't be applied to Japanese spelling. Saying something like too anime makes you sound stupid to be honest.

I have to partially agree with Cyber. This topic would be at home in an otaku (not a positive term as most people think) forum. It's only going to attract Japanophiles.

On the other hand, TMNT had a generous sprinkling of Japanese words and themes. Seeing how popular it was in Japan in the 80-90s, I think that helped make that influence grow over the years. So of course there would be some discussion about how well or butchered a primarily English speaking voice actor says words.

Oh anime, I'm so glad I grew out of that phase in life. Fans were often ruthless on dubs...

Ya-mek!

Daijobu?

Baka!

Itadakimas!

Well that's my japanese vocabulary in a nutshell.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. You never thought there'd be discussion about Japanese terms in a franchise heavily laced with Japanese influence. Containing budo and bujutsu, ninjas and Japanese characters.

Never, really?

I'm glad they're using Japanese terms and showing us how to pronounce them. Now I know that the I is silent in kunoichi, and I can pronounce it properly when I see it written in stories I read.

Words I've learned since watching this show:

Hajime

Yame

Kunoichi

Idetakimas

Hai

And I'm sure there are others, but I can't think of them right now. Bring on the Japanese!

Idetakimas = Itadakimasu :) Another silent vowel at the end. Closest meaning is 'Thanks for the food', but there isn't really an equivalent.

I remember Leo saying Onegaishimasu to Raph in the first episode, which is 'Please do'.

I hasten to add I am not Japanese nor fluent in the language. I did an evening course for two years, so I'm vaguely at stupid tourist level. ;D

It's simply astonishing how bloody ignorant you really are. :roll:

You...You do realize Bruce Lee was Chinese, not Japanese, right?

Anyway, as far as I can tell just from other shows I've watched that use the word, in particular Naruto, they're pronouncing it just fine. It does sound a bit more awkward coming out of April's mouth than it does Splinter, but isn't that just par for the course?

I'll also never understand the disdain that a lot of comic fans have for anime/manga either. It's fine not to like it of course, but really, it's no less silly than US comics, nor is it's fanbase any more or less volatile.

It's courtesy to say onegaishimasu before initiating a kata, and when it's done we bow and say arigato gozaimasu.

Unrelated, but when people add u's after o's I find it very distracting, like when people write arigato as "arigatou". I guess since the Norwegian å is very similar to the Japanese o, we don't need that extra added u.

I have heard literally zero Japanese people drop the last i in kunoichi unless it came before a vowel. In fact I know someone in Japan who watched the English version and constantly made fun of it.

I'm a fan of anime, and I've seen some where a person is counting. And occasionally they say ichi Ni san...but other times the they would drop the i at the end of ichi.

Same thing when people are running or doing track, the people will occasionally chant Ichi Ni. And still drop the i at the end of ichi.

Hm you are right about that. I'd forgotten. Regardless, except for their vestigial U, I can't think of any case when a dropped/silent letter occurs outside of being situational to the sentence structure around it, or regional dialect

I give the show props for actually trying to pronounce it correctly, despite its sounding awkward. I don't get what the original poster had a problem with.

Actually, this is helpful to me. I live near Oji station. The kanji reads 王子. Ok, fine, right? Well, the hiragana is written おうじ. Ouji...romanized Oji. It helps to know that the o sound isn't a short long vowel but a long one...if that makes sense. There are other words like this like くらげ (kurage) and 唐揚げ (karaage). They're both close in sound, the double a there helps. One means jellyfish while the other is a fried chicken dish.

I still don't get the difference in pronunciation between rice wine and salmon.

Actually, sake can refer to all alcohol in general. That aside, the pronunciations are the same, the kanji is just different. Some folks just say "salmon" in general.

It sounds fine.


Credentials for my assumption: Seen three seasons of Naruto. Best friend has been to Japan twice.

I'm totally practically an expert almost.

Your opinion is about the only one I trust in this territory.

I wish the writers would put more Japanese words/phrases into the show. Since the turtles were raised by Splinter, whose first language is Japanese, it makes total sense that the turtles would learn how to speak it to an extent...

It still sounds awkward, though for a reason already mentioned. It sounds strange as a standalone word with the way April and the others say it. In an actual sentence being spoken in Japanese and the "i" in kunoichi not being strong is fine.Same here actually, given that they seem to be partially doing their homework. That was one of the reasons why the yokai ep bothered me. The ep as a whole bothered me, but most of my criticisms i give a pass to, as the show is aimed at kids. Oh, this is also one of the main reasons movie 3 bothered me as a kid. Not enough Japanese for my liking.

Yeah, that does irk me quite a bit every time they (mis)pronounce it. It's honestly the first time I ever heard it without the 'ee' sound at the end, and some much emphasis on the 'ch' sound.

I agree when talking fast in a middle of a sentence certain vowels are either dropped or not stressed as strongly, but April always seems to end her sentences with the word so it really stands out as jarring.

And people, stop dissing anime. This is about the Japanese language as a whole, not cartoons made there. That's like someone mispronuncing spanish words and whenever we bring it up someone starts complaining and saying 'I hate those old Chespirito shows and Cantiflas movies! Leave that in Mexico!'.

And what can we say, the show is about ninjas. Sais themselves were practically unknown until Raph came into the picture, with the exception of possibly Elektra, but only hardcore Marvel comic fans would know that back in the day. It doesn't matter if E&L didn't know squat about Japan when they made the series, if you make it about ninjas and throw people like Yoshi, Saki and Karai in it, sooner or later you're gonna have to start doing some research. It would be like me making a show about wrestling without ever having seen a match, and not knowing how to use the terms face, heel and kayfabe correctly.... and then having hardcore WWE fans chew me out on my BS.

That's why more and more modern interpretations have been emphasizing actual Japanese words and customs, cause it would make sense at least for Splinter, Shredder and Karai to know Japanese and act like they were actually born there. They're not Japanese-Americans as in, they grew up in the US in the states with Japanese parents or what-have-you.... they were actually born and raised there before fate brought them to New York.

The deal with anime, especially the more realistic splice of life type shows, is that they show more of the authentic customs and lifestyle over there, so when American shows get stuff wrong, we actually know about it and can call out the BS. It would be as if there was a bunch of new animated and live-action Mexican shows on prime time TV showing that not all of us are sleeping on the floor outside our little markets with giant sombreros covering our faces and a bottle of tequila in our hands, and that not all Mexican Americans talk with 'ese', 'vato' and 'homes'. After that, you'd look back at all the other shows that stereotyped Mexican character and would be able to call them on their bs too.

I don't know how to pronounce Kunoichi but if April's pronouncing it wrong, I don't have a problem with it because... she's not from Japan. In Karai's Vendetta, she also sounded really awkward trying to copy what Karai said in Japanese.

April no... but Splinter...? Why would he teach her to pronounce it wrongly? Here, have a Mexican dish, it's meat on a tortilla, we call it Tackys. Yeah... that's right... we all pronounce it Tackys....

Again, she's not really pronouncing it wrong.

They're technically not pronouncing it wrong. The problem is that as a standalone word surrounded by English in a sentence it sounds awkward. If it was spoken in an actual Japanese sentence, it probably wouldn't sound so strange and awkward. It's like counting. The "i" in ichi isn't as strong as you get to the higher numbers.

I second that. We gotta give the guys some pats on the back for always researching and trying their best and beyond to satisfy us. So critiquing every little thing is a bit....well a bit much if you ask me.

To-mato Ta-mato

Has anybody here yet made the joke:
"Kuno each to his own" ?

^ ;D oldmanwinters wins. We can all go home now.

My prof told us 'itedakimasu' means "I will partake." (I had 4 semesters, but have forgotten most of it due to lack of use... still have my books, though, and trying to translate doujinshi for a friend. (Kanji...ugh.))