How would you reintroduce Venus de Milo?
 

or should she remain in tmnt fandom purgatory?

*awaits flame war or constructive discussion*

I wouldn't simply because there's just no need. I'd rather them spend time developing important and memorable characters.

So long as certain conditions were met, I'd have no problem what so ever with the Nick Toon reviving Venus.

1) She'd have to have the boy's design. Either the fab four, or Spike.
No shell boobs. No hair. If there's to be any sexual dimorphism at all, she should be larger than them.

2) She's not a love interest. At all. For anyone.

3) No pastel color palatte.

4) She's not a Kraang in disguise.

5) She have a conversation with another female character about something that isn't a dude.

There is a certain allure to seeing them take something like Venus, and subvert it into something that works. But it's pretty apocryphal to set out to redux Venus at all.

I would bet that in most/all of the current TMNT incarnations, should they continue, a female Turtle will appear at some point, but probably not one called Venus or Mieh Pieh Chi.

The best way is to go with Peter Laird's verdict that her exostence has been erased. If she has to have existed Shredder could kill their sister on their inital encounter in a darker interpretation.

6) She doesn't exist to be "fridged."

The same way Sophie did in her fan-comic. She was always one of the core members from the beginning and name her after a Renaissance artist and not a artwork.

And no shell boobs, that's dumb, as dumb as shell abs.

Taking her name at face value (an objet d'art instead of an artist), I'd reimage her into a genetic experiment conducted by an older Donatello. Alone in the universe with his three brothers and knowing that they have no way to pass on a biological legacy, Donatello creates a daughter using his own DNA. Hence the name.

Nice little one-shot, ala Turtles in Time and Roadhogs (I believe that's the name of the old Mirage RPG with Swamp Raph leading a few mutant turtles). And then we never have to see her again. :tlol:

i'm feeling all these answers real surprised at the discussion. peace everyone i shall add my opinion soon...

It might be me, but besides incorporating Venus into the Turtles' origin (as long as it's reducing the group to roommates and in love), I'd personally see her as a Turtle alien (the Nick Mona Lisa in a way). Might be weird, but for how I see it do something like this:

1. During a space adventure or a travel to Japan, the Turtles are introduced to a young female Turtle. Not mutated as of now, but brought home if something is occurring. For example, if in space say someone like the Triceratons attacked her home similar to Star Wars with Luke or if Japan and the rights allow it, bring her away if a Foot Clan attack or Norianga is leading an attack.

2. The Turtles bring the female home and treat her as one of the family (think identically to Spike in the Nickverse before he became Slash). Give some adorable moments with the little girl; cue something that occurs to fully mutate her into a character.

3. Cue the mystical elements; whether as unexplained potential or a family talent is entirely up to the writer. She assists in stopping the villain and is brought back to be tutored as a heroine.

4. Bring her back later on as a guest star from time to time so she doesn't overstay her welcome. Give Venus banter with her "step brothers", show some fancy tricks but not result in her being overpowered. If there's one thing to prevent Venus from returning is her destroying the equality between the four Turtles. I'd rather they each teach one another: Venus with the mystic side partially and the Turtles on other material.

Honestly, Venus had potential as a character but was shoehorned and rather pointless. She was practically one of the very few characters in Next Mutation written well, but the origin shouldn't have been damaged. :ohwell: Not sure if what I suggested works, but I'm gear for a Venus return sometime in the future if possible. If not, oh well; there's literally many directions to make her good, just depends on execution.

Go with the separation thing. But don't have her magically somehow also ending up in martial arts. Give her a completely different life experience. Maybe even one where she never socialized with anyone at all and is just some kind of mindless creature or has just been secretly surviving alone somewhere.

Alternatively, make her realize the direness of her own situation and strive to exceed it. Make her the only Venus there ever was in the multiverse, stuck in the dumbest iteration. Have her figure out passage to the Battle Nexus, leaving her old world behind.

Question: how would you reconcile the clashing schools of thought, namely: the Turtles take on some humanoid characteristics during mutation, versus no sexual dimorphism?

While I definitely agree "shell boobs" and pastel colors are pandering and insulting, I do think that copying some humanoid female traits could potentially make sense depending on how the mutations work in whichever universe this happened. For instance, in Fred Wolf and Nick TMNT, you take on the traits of whatever you last touched. If the female turtle was last in contact with a human...?

I'd wanna see her in the Nick series, as a dream/story of Michelangelo's. In Adventure Time, there are episodes in a different universe that are actually The Ice King's fanfiction. Given Mikey is an artist/writer in Mirage, it'd be cool to see that side of him brought out in a similar way, to introduce wacky characters & stories. I could see him writing about a cool female TMNT who knows magic. :trazz: I'd want her design to be in line with the 4 turtles, but maintain the general look of her original appearance, minus the shell boobs (though the top of the plaston could have a slight V shape to it, maybe). Have Malachi bring the turtles into her world to fight off Dragonlord or some other familiar foe.

Not a fan of the Nick universe, but I do like that idea...

Its funny how all female mutants/animal characters in TMNT have been love interests:

- Mona Lisa was a love interest for Raph in the cartoons
- Ninjara was a love interest for Raph in Archie
- Alopex was a love interest for Raph in IDW (why does Raph get all the girls?)
- Venus was a love interest for possibly Leo or Mikey in Next Mutation

Were there any other female mutants who weren't love interests?

It reminds me of the Mirage issue from the firs volume where the turtles had weird dreams. A throw away issue which had imaginary stories within a cannon universe. It could work by Mike's pen and imagination or a dream. Perhaps, a "what if Mona was a turtle" type thing that Raph could dream up.
http://www.miragelicensing.com/comic...41/41cover.jpg

I don't really see how that is clashing of schools. The Turtles don't show a whole lot of human sexual dimorphism, cause in reality we have a very low level of differences compared to a lot of other species.

So why should Venus be subject for perceived female human sexual dimorphism, when there are more credence for turtle dimorphism?

If Venus is to be without the typical "girl code", boobs, hourglass body, long eye lashes, hair. Making her more petite goes against turtle nature, especially Red-Eared Sliders where the female is a lot larger then the male, like BayTurtles vs Mirage Turtles size difference.

Should she then have a distinct trait of having cellulite, as that is a human female sex characteristic. Or birthing hips which again goes forward the "girl coding" with hourglass body (or in this case pear shape), maybe the shell works like a sexy corset...

Maybe Venus should be genderless. Its not like she has to be male or female. It would fit in today's SJW tumblr society too.

honestly, i wasnt expecting peeps to be open to venus being reintroduced... let alone a discussion about her...

I wouldn't... but for argument sake, I wouldn't pull the "we're not actually related" or the "she was there all along but Splinter didn't notice" BS which felt like a rip-off of FW's backstory for Mondo Gecko.

I'm not arguing that Turtles do or should; I was simply wondering if there was a balance between the two schools of thought or if they can coexist, and if so, to what extent. I mean, TMNT's top two notorious female mutants are Venus and Mona Lisa. :tlol:

One prime example of female mutants that sticks in mind, Alopex has been sadly neutralized and cutified since Sophie Campbell drew her; she used to look like a rabid nightmare, and now she's just a widdle ball of fwuff. But I think that's #1 the artist's personal style and #2 more a result of her becoming an ally than a reminder that "hey she's a female." Koya is an example of how female characters can be done without resorting to silly pink bows. Angelina Jolie's Tigress from Kung Fu Panda for another...

The further we progress from braided bandanna and shell boobs, the better. But you win internet points for making me laugh at "sexy corset shell"... :tlol:

If I were writing a book for IDW I'd have her be one of the denizens of the future in Turtles in Time 4

Like androgynous?

You're suggesting that she has a dick now? :teek: What is wrong with you??:tcry:

In a world where we've seen Lord Dregg, Vernon Fenwick, and even freaking Jammerhead return, along with the rise of new scrappies like Spider Bytez and Eric Sachs, I believe Venus can be seen again. Here are my suggestions:

1. Originally, the Turtles were greater in number like a real ninja clan, but Shredder took out many of their number upon their first encounter, and this includes her and also others like Kirby and Picasso. Maybe she turns up in the employ of Dregg, embittered from her "death" at the hands of Shredder, mutated to become more chiropteran/insectoid under him.
2. Agent Bishop, obsessed with the creatures, decides to try and make his own to serve under him. Kirby, Terrorpin, etc may be failed results, but Venus is the final product. While she flirts with the Turtles and often helps them out, the man she truly loves is Bishop. Only knowing basic ninjitsu, she is primarily focused on magical attack.
3. Or, she, Carter, Cody, et al could only exist in a story Mondo Gecko made up to entertain himself. This seems like a good "catch-all" fate for hated TMNT characters.

Outside of the pilot the turtles never showed interest on Venus and even then. She doesn't have hair either, her bandanna is longer and resembles a ponytail, that's actually very clever and I like it. The Shellboobs don't bother me but I guess they can have less of a boob shape but she needs to have some girl like features.

I would love to see Venus back even if it's as a dream but I'd rather she be a real character. Her backstory can actually be very interesting with the whole Chinese angle. Her origin can change slightly, she could've already been in the sewers and just hapened to mutate when the ooze/other turtles fell so fans don't get their panties in a twist over her being their "sister". I'd change her bandanna to white so she would have a different color.


I didn't know but the girl who played Venus was cute:
https://36.media.tumblr.com/2c062e79...x383o1_500.png
so you made this thread to see Venus get flamed? :trolleye:

The girl in the Venus costume is cute. Sadly since that pic is 1997...which is now oddly nearly 20 years ago...she probably looks old and dated now so I'd rather not look her up and see how she aged.

The sad realization when you realize 1997 is now 20 years ago. :cry:

*drinks jug of Dominican rum and dies in his sleep*

At least he died doing what he loved.

She'd be a double amputee?

How to reintroduce her? As something using the name and nothing else, that or brief joke.

I'm sure there is several ways of balancing it, from making her not Smurfette, but still recognizable female even though the boys don't have male coding.

They could go the Nick Mona Lisa route and make her less bulky (compared to Sal) and more smoother in the features, but still keep her the biggest of the Turtles.

Sophie did a stellar job designing her female turtle, as she basically designed Artemisia as a Ninja Turtle, not Girl/Boy Ninja Turtle.

not at all... i'm actually pro venus... wouldn't mind seeing stories with the female turtle perspective, especially if executed correctly...

i just had it in my mind that the fandom hated her from the research and materials i was reading lately...

would peter laird really flip out if someone were to ask him about venus?

http://puntacanadventure.com/wp-cont...coke-3.png.jpg

:D

I remember at a Toronto Fan Expo at the TMNT panel, they were telling the story of how all the turtles got their names. I raised my hand and asked "So how did Venus De Milo come about?" and the room collectively groaned. All I got was a simple "We don't talk about Venus. Next question." Yeesh :roll:

As far as reintroducing Venus goes, I think it's doable.

Personally, I'd like to see her come around for a season of a TV show or a multi-volume arc in the comics, but I wouldn't want her around forever. Give her a bit of a tragic heel turn. Not sure what her origin would be, but I'd start her off as an outcast good guy who tries to fit in with the guys but she never feels like one of the team. Shredder plays on this insecurity and lures her to join his ranks, maybe even second in command(in turn creating a rivalry between Venus and Karai). The Turtles try to redeem her and by doing so, she turns on Shredder at the last moment. Afterwards the Turtles celebrate thinking she's back on the team for good but she decides to go her own way, knowing she's never going to be apart of the family. She disappears, and life goes on without her.

Not entirely original but its an arc I'd probably dig.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't she roughly the same size as the original four as drawn by Campbell?

No, she is the tallest of the five being at a whopping 5' 4", while the original turtles have the Other Strangeness height stats (more or less) so Donnie is the tallest among the dudes being flat 5 feet tall.

I'm not opposed to sexual dimorphism entirely. I'm opposed to the imposition of human sexual dimorphism on what would be a reptilian character.

There are plenty of traits a mutant turtle could get from a human that aren't "males are bigger than females, on average and oh...mammary glands."

Like:
Teeth, color vision, the ability to walk up-right, a drastic shift in intermemberal index, speech, self awareness....

How would even mammary glands work on a humanoid Turtle, the can't be on the chest like humans, as there are no place for the fatty tissue to be. The plastron isn't some thick hide, or plates over the skin. It's literally the rib cage with fused bone plates, covered with scutes. Boobs aren't under the ribcage. :lol:

Exactly. So there's absolutely no reason why a female reptile shouldn't be anything but flat chested. Flat chested and likely taller and more broad than her male contemporaries.