Pros & cons about TMNT: OotS' failure at the box office
 

Pros:

* TMNT as a movie franchise can now take a very necessary dirt nap for a while and TPTB will have no choice but to reevaluate things for the next go-around.
* Another reboot can probably be expected, but probably not in the too-foreseeable future. We probably shouldn't have a great deal of confidence in said reboot being much better than this first foray, but it's difficult to imagine it being much worse.
* Platinum Dunes deservedly has egg on their face in a very public way.
* TPTB tried to do a big Fred Wolf bonanza with "Everything a fan wants" complete with Bebop and cowabunga and Technodrome and all of that and it has squarely fallen flat on its face. The overwhelming likelihood is that they won't try that a second time.
* This pleases me, personally, greatly. And that should be important to you.

Cons:

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There is a con. This could hurt the brand.

If these movie toys linger too long on shelves retailers are going to think the whole brand is soft and lower their future orders on the Nick line of toys. For those of us that like the Nick turtles that's not a good thing.

The very existence of things like OotS hurt the "brand." While it's true that its failure might peripherally hurt things like the Nick cartoon, or maybe even the chances a new reader might pick up a copy of IDW TMNT ("Is this about those Hulk Turtles with the lame chains and Arrow? Mehhh, pass")... it's far better for these movies to be stunted and go down in flames more sooner than later. By movie #3 or #4 some (additional) rather permanent damage would be done, though even still it's pretty hurt.

Good point. I guess I never really thought about it that way. However this was just posted in another thread. Not great news.

http://www.thewrap.com/why-teenage-m...of-box-office/

Yep. We had some really good things going for a long while there. New hit cartoon that was very much a good modern take on the 80s cartoon(on tv where that kind of thing belongs), lots of new comics that I'm told are great(I'll be able to afford to read them eventually).

But then these sh*tty movies came along and that might mess things up a bit.

They only have themselves to blame, and if anything happens to lessen the cartoon and the comics, I feel very, very bad for the talented creators behind those mediums that their great products were tainted by crappy ones.

I've always looked at the situation as this... Viacom getting the rights made possible a number of things:

The Nickelodeon cartoon. To me, it's "meh" but not terrible. Some pretty good stuff, miles ahead of Fred Wolf and--when it tries--some pretty great writing. So, overall, GOOD.

IDW comics. Amazing stuff that I look forward to every month. Not only that, but IDW has been reprinting the Mirage and Archie stuff. Definitely GOOD.

Platinum Dunes movies. Terrible terrible half-assed lazy movies with zero competent writing. Most public "face" of the property currently and definitely not doing anyone any favors. Critically, it's BAD.

Merch. Action figures, board games, new video games, all the usual kiddie bedsheets/pajamas/toothpaste/et al. A lot of crap, some cool stuff... definitely something for everyone, though. I'll rate it GOOD.

4Kids cartoon. The previous cartoon was finally getting some decent DVD releases, Seasons 1 and 2 divided into two halves. Then the sale happened and the show pretty much disappeared from the face of the earth and lives on only on YouTube and Amazon (first three seasons only). BAD.

Overall, I'm willing to pay the price of terrible terrible movies if it means the IDW comics continue to be possible. My only fear is that at some point, the Turtle Train gets derailed, no doubt with Platinum Dunes contributing a fair portion of that apocalypse.

Seems pretty speculative to me, though not untrue. But it's not like Warner Bros. soldiered ahead with more movies in that particular iteration after "Batman & Robin" dropped rather embarrassingly, and Batman movies were as big into toys as TMNT, if not a great deal moreso. There's a tipping point when a thing becomes so radioactive, pulling the ship back into port rather than Moby Dicking things becomes the most sensible thing to do.

Speaking of WB maybe Paramount could wake up like WB did after BvS. Fire the whole staff and rehire new people.

The movie was "tentacle mucus to the eye", so it's a really good thing it isn't doing well.

The only con I have - at this point I don't want to be done seeing what can be done with this set of Turtles. Two films, and just one where we're finally starting to get to know them. After a hard start two years ago, they've grown on me. They have potential, don't really want to be done with them yet...I just want them out of PD's hands. Hand their computer files over to someone else who can write and produce responsibly. Someone competent needs to stage a hostile takeover of the right to make their films.

I'm OK with them taking all of their "computer files" on these last two films, taking any and all of the backups of them along with any tangential assets and props, rounding every piece of pre- and post-production into one singular office building and then...

https://johnnycat.files.wordpress.co.../explosion.jpg

So far, this movie has done nothing for me to increase comic sales. There was no buzz ahead of time and no one has come in asking about TMNT because of this movie since it came out. This could change, but I doubt it. The Deadpool bubble is only just starting to burst and Civil War is going really strong. Good movies equal increased comic sale. You let me down, Platinum Dunes.

The only con I can think of is this decreases the chances of a Rifftrax of Platinum Dunes' TMNT 3.

Honestly...this reminds me of the time when Ninja Turtles 3 came out in 1993...and sometime after that, the Next Mutation hit.

In other words...the time where it made me fall out of love for the Ninja Turtles.

It took the 2003 cartoon to bring me back...the first 2 seasons of the Nick Cartoon were pretty decent.

But now that the Nick cartoon turned to sh** (especially the third season, gave up on that crapfest), and we have these new "films" :trolleye:

Now that time comes around again...I'd rather it die off and wait for the next '2003 cartoon, etc.' to bring me back.

And to people who get pissed off....

I'm sorry, but all I ask are capable Martial Arts & fight sequences/choreography that even Marvel is doing in the Captain America movies...

And for the 4 characters to be treated as actual 3-Dimensional characters. Have some back and forth that serve the characters and their specific relationship between one another...not Plot Exposition, exposition, exposition, and more exposition...even a simple 'Mikey pranking Raph, Raph coming after him, giving him a noogie for his troubles'...

Why are simple things like that not capable of being put into a movie?

I agree that we need to wait for China. This kind of stuff always does better over there. I'd also like to see what legs this movie has. Movies don't open poorly because they're bad. They open poorly because people aren't interested. If word gets out that it's, at least, better than the last movie, it might hang in theaters for a while. I truly believe this movie is suffering from the reception of the last film, and the drop next weekend won't be very large.

Regardless, toys.

Not everyone watches a new release on the first weekend

Why?

Because they don't want to pay for a writer with any level of competence.

Of course not everyone... but a significant percentage does, typically 1/3 or more of the total audience.

Also wondering if opening the weekend or so before most schools close for the summer is a good date to choose. I wouldn't be surprised if some families are saying "next week," after school is out and initial crowds have let up. (Although let me say, a late Sunday night after opening, last showing of the night, is PERFECT if you want it quiet. My mom and I almost had a private screening; thought we would, but three others showed up before it started.)


As for holdouts... yeah, my brother-in-law is interested in checking it out for Bebop and Rocksteady. They only rented the prior film, but was asking last night if I thought it was worth a theater viewing. Very possible many are just waiting to see what others are saying.

I only saw it because got in free... it was better than the first but it definitely wouldn't hurt my feelings if this version of the TMNT burns to the ground... like Zack said, it hasn't drawn anyone into reading comics... if it had a more traditional looking Turtles (& Casey) then I think it would have been easier for parents to buy their kids comics and the young adult crowd basically the same thing... no tie in for the movie in a comic book format... just plenty of short toys... and we all know how well Playmates does things...

I haven't really been keeping up with the numbers or anything, but I think PD has had a few pretty high profile failures. I'm sure TMNT2 has a MUCH larger budget, but the Nightmare on Elm Street and Friday the 13th reboots were pretty big flops, among several other horror reboots.

It'll be interesting to see where this all goes. TMNT still seems like a very strong brand at the moment. If merch sales are still high, it'll be as easy correlation to see that the film's performance isn't tied to a diminishing brand but subpar product.

Personally, I'd love to see Paramount reboot the franchise with a more Chris Nolan feel, but I'm not holding my breath for it.

Well the turnaround on "reboot with two lame movies, reboot again" on Spider-Man has been pretty quick so who knows, maybe something cool will happen?

Yeah, probably not.

5 years between Raimi's garbage and Amazingly bad part 1. Then 3 (technically just 2) years in between the last one and the Marvel takeover.

So yes, it's possible. Either way I hope the IDW series isn't adversely affected.

Pros: We'll eventually get the reboot we deserve. Unless Pramount wants to end the trilogy. But they did everything in TMNT 2 so there's kinda to go. In the end considering what this movies making I'd be in serious shock and awe if they did a third. That's company suicide and a massive waste of money as I think Box Office wise it only goes down hill.

Cons: I kinda wanted the TMNT 3 to involve the Triceratons invading the Earth and Shredder creating more mutant animals as a side plot. Maybe Stockman fly and Leatherhead, two of my favorite TMNT mutants.

I mean, they finally did what a lot of... people... wanted after all these years, what guys like Angry Video Game Nerd and Black Nerd and all those have b*tched about since time immemorial, which is bringing Bebop, Rocksteady, and the Technodrome to life on the screen.

Well, they did it and it failed. Like I've said ad nauseum, at this point the one thing they haven't tried on the big screen, the one last ace up the sleeve, the last magic trick they can pull before the gig is up is, you guessed it, a spiritual adaptation of the Mirage TMNT. At some point the suits will probably realize that and talk about it... even if it's just in passing before the subject is changed to how they can write a movie around a scene with Turtles escaping from a crashing space shuttle or something.

First movie they don't give two ***** about the internet; get bashed everywhere online. Does pretty well.

Second movie they pander to internet nerds; get praised everywhere online. Does terrible.

It's tough to build on a terrible foundation.

I'm sure if there is a third one you might have hit it on the head with crashing space shuttle. They could do Triceratons. That would give Michael Bay plenty of lasers and expositions for his liking.

I don't think it's bombing due to the Fred Wolf elements. Not at all. There was a pretty interesting article on Forbes today about TMNT 2--the trend of really bad franchise starters from well-known properties and their better quality, but under-performing sequels.

Personally, going in with super low expectations, I really enjoyed the B&R/Krang/Technodrome material. For what it was, anyway.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmen...justice-league

He makes some very good points about box office trends, though I've gotta raise an eyebrow at him raving about how "improved" this movie is like it's the second coming of Christ, rather than a deeply (and compared to the first movie, similarly) flawed mindless blockbuster that basically doesn't have a plot but is crammed full of fan-service instead. I get the appeal for 30-somethings who grew up with Bebop and Rocksteady and Krang and haven't really followed the property much further than that, but nostalgia alone doesn't make for a good movie. Hell, there've been a ton of compelling arguments about how the actual story of this movie's worse than the last one.

Personally, I don't think it failed because of the Fred Wolf elements, but I think it's proven that those elements can't, and shouldn't, be the main focus of the franchise, and that maybe their appeal isn't as big or as widespread as the studio thought. First the Nick/Fred Wolf crossover episode barely nudged the ratings bar, and now this has severely underperformed after a relentless nostalgia-baiting marketing campaign.

Which is good news, I think. "MEMBA THIS?" is a cheap, short-sighted promo tactic to pin the entire property on. Time to focus on its strengths in character and story. (The two things these movies have completely neglected.)

Did we read the same article? I didn't get any second coming of Christ vibes from it at all. Saying the movie is an improvement over the previous isn't saying it's up there with The Godfather and Casablanca or that it's the definitive ,best possible TMNT movie. It's Forbes, not a fan site, not a cinema site. The writer's general thoughts on OOTS match up with pretty much everything I've heard/read from anyone other than some hardcore fans here. I'm assuming most people are approaching OOTS as a actiony kid's film, and in that regards-- it's a fun watch. Anything outside of that is a stretch. Which is a shame because TMNT is capable of so much more...

Actually, their horror films tend to do pretty decently at the box office. The budgets are pretty small so they don't have to be huge 9-figure box office grosses.

Con: We have to watch another origin story again.

Tell that to the Nick show, I'm no fan of that, but it does integrate those elements into it's own complexion well for the most part

Funny, because most of the praise for this movie have focused on...guess what? Character and story.

But hey, feel free to ignore the facts. :roll:

Oy, this guy again. :trazz:

Except it doesn't stop there. It picks elements out of multiple versions of the property, not just Fred Wolf, and hangs all that on actual story, backstory, and plot lines largely based on the original Mirage comics. Which is why the better episodes of the Nick show have an actual story while these movies really don't.

And that praise seems to be in the minority. How many reviews have slagged the movie for effectively having no story, a half-baked (at best) plot, for having paper-thin characters who don't have actual arcs, and whose supposed "development" is just abruptly stated and not actually shown or earned in the story? Because I lost count.

There's more to story than "action set-piece leads to action set-piece leads to action set-piece", and there's more to character than "most of their personalities are intact".

You might want to check your definition of "fact", because it sounds like you're veering into Opinion Town. Here's a handy link.

Okay, I was being a bit hyperbolic. A bit. :trazz:

But here are the things he says about the movie in the first three short paragraphs:

• "everything we wanted the first film to be"
• "it served as a perfect template for how to make a crowd-pleasing Justice League movie"
• "it’s filled with creative action and genuine character chemistry"
• "It is as remarkable a 180-degree turn in a franchise the second time out as I can remember"
• "Despite doing everything right..."

He's desperately fawning over the thing, and he's done similar in another column or two recently. Which is fine, he's certainly entitled to his opinion, I'm glad the movie worked for him even if it won't work for me. But based on the wide/general consensus he seems to be vastly overstating this movie's virtues, and comes across as downright emotional about it. Which, for me, cuts into his objectivity a bit... which is strange because the rest of his message it pretty well based in facts and logic, but oh well?

Really? Because I've seen tons of fiercely negative reviews/reactions all over the place.

After thinking about it I came to a conclusion as to how using the Fred Wolf cartoon as a blueprint for this movie might have been it's downfall, albeit hardly the only reason, the reason nostalgia doesn't seem to work here:

It expected that enough 30-35 year olds would get excited for a movie that looked like (and was) the kind of loud and juvenile movie only little kids would like.