Peter Laird reacts to OotS' failure
 

From his TMNT Blog:

My question:

I don't know if the shelf life on this particular Q&A is already done, but I'll shoot one anyway.

With the new movie, "TMNT: Out of the Shadows" vastly underperforming on track by most outlets to barely squeak to 100 million domestically by the end of its run (well under its production budget, let alone the marketing budget which is very likely 100 million itself by general practices), it's very unlikely at this point any further sequels will be greenlit. It's done.

My question is: how do you feel about this? Are you happy that it is a failure (I know I am)? Are you ambivalent? It's the sum of all of my, and I suspect your fears... you know, "The Big Dumb Bebop, Rocksteady and Krang Movie™," as all of the marketing rests heavily on.

His response:

Andrew, it may be too early to justifiably and conclusively call the new TMNT live-action movie ("Out of the Shadows") a failure -- I believe it's only been out a week or so, as of this writing. Maybe it is possible, statistically-speaking, to make these kinds of judgements based on the existing numbers -- I don't have that kind of specialized knowledge.

(I should mention that I have not yet seen the movie.)

If it IS a failure, it's not entirely clear what made it so. Was it the look of the movie? The writing? The acting? The story? The effects? Casey Jones with a buzzcut?Something else? A combination of some or all of the above? Hard to say.

It might be possible to lay the blame -- or at least SOME of it -- on the filmmakers' decision to so prominently feature some of the goofier characters from the first animated TMNT series. As you might guess, if I were still in the position to make such decisions, they would never have been included. But that's just me.

While I have not seen the movie yet, I have heard mention that it is rife with crass and crude "comedy". Could that have something to do with its apparent lack of success? Are audiences getting weary of this kind of thing? Hard to say.

It is somewhat rare that I am "happy" that something is a failure, especially in the realm of movies. I know that a lot of dedicated people put in LOTS of earnest effort to make the movie they're working on the best possible movie that their efforts can make it… and all too often, such sincere efforts go to waste due to decisions made "at the top". I am loathe to wish failure on such folks and don't really think it's appropriate to be "happy" when such failure happens, except to some degree in those situations where such failure actually makes the world arguably a better place. -- PL

Well that's about as much as a response as I would expect. Although I must admit, him signaling out Casey Jones' buzzcut of all things was amusing.

His opinion is not really relevant tbh. That's like asking George Lucas what he thinks of new Star Wars. Who cares.

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I mean, if for no other reason than morbid curiosity.

How is his opinion "irrelevant" if he co-created the damn thing? You might not agree with him, but I think his opinion automatically holds some weight.

Like, I don't really agree with George Lucas' stance on Star Wars, but I sure as hell respect his opinion and his right to state it.

Very true, they can ask is for his opinions on that stuff, and it will not reflect on the property, since he no longer has the rights to it.

He only hates Bebop and Rocksteady, but a large majority of the fans say otherwise.

Absolutely.

What Peter Laird refer to as goofy characters, I see them as fun characters.

TigerClaw and Shark_Blade's opinions are irrelevant.

Classy dude!

I'm not sure why fans are saying that his opinions don't count. We're all fans here... he's one of the creators that ran the franchise for almost thirty years! I think it's VERY interesting to get his thoughts on what's going on with the property.

I love the ASK PL threads.

pretty much this!

You're opinions are irrelevant too. :P\

In fact a lot of opinions that's been going around here have been irrelevant around here.

The same large majority of the fans who apparently didn't go to see this movie?

Peter may have opinions on the current state of TMNT, but he should be happy that its still popular today.

be thankful that the thing you create is still relevant today, when Nickelodeon bought the property and created that series, its more popular then ever.

Even if what it currently resembles is the very antithesis of it? A constant reminder that with you no longer there to right the ship, the property in just about every medium is doing the exact opposite of everything you fought so hard to prevent?

I dunno... I doubt it. Maybe on some level.

You have such a simplistic view of everything.

TMNT is not more popular than ever either.

Isn't Peter Laird getting a cut of the revenue that TMNT is making?

Now? Not at all.

I'm with him about not being happy about something failing. That should never be an outcome. That just makes you a dick if you are... even a competitor failing shouldn't be good news to one.

If this was some art film or labor of love of somebody, sure. It's not, on any front. It's just a $ recipe boiled together by studio executives trying to maximize profit, placing toy revenue paramount while targeting the lowest common denominator the whole way through.

The only people to feel bad about in any of this is guys like Amell, and maybe the Turtle cast themselves. They didn't know what they were getting into.

So Andrew is a dick as well as a broken record? I kid, I kid :lol:

Well if the movie's box office is any indication then it really isn't as popular as people were banking on...at least not in it's current iteration.

I actually think it's interesting that more people were willing to take a chance on a TMNT movie that initially looked like it was going in terms of visual and tone the wrong direction but a movie is heavily promoted as fixing all this and embracing a direction people have shouted for years is the sure fire route to success and then much less people were interested.

What ridiculous (and honestly somewhat moronic) line of thinking.

If anything, thanks to these films, the Turtles are now a bigger joke in the eyes of the general public than before.

It's so amazingly popular that the movie's been deemed a failure and is being blamed for plummeting Viacom shares!

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It's kind of silly to talk about what Peter Laird "should" think about this. He ran the property for 25 years, he knows how it works, and he's got every reason to (potentially) have issues with seeing something he worked hard on being misrepresented by an inferior product.

Well, there was a sense of mystery about the 2014 movie (at least to the casual audience). It had been a while since a major TMNT movie was released and the nostalgia waters were just right. And once they saw what Platinum Dunes brought to the table, most of them... weren't impressed.

Maybe most people saw through the lazy nostalgia-pandering this time? Quite a few people saw the 2014 movie, and only about half of them bothered checking out this one, so that's a lot of people who were potentially turned off enough that even the aggressive Fred Wolf-oriented marketing couldn't sway them.

This is what sticks out to me and honestly is a major reason I haven't really liked venturing into this side of the drome of late. The sheer JOY people seem to get out of seeing the failure of not just anything, but the Turtles who we are all fans of, it's really disheartening. I get not liking the movie, maybe even hating it, but to do a virtual dance as you watch it plummet...? Is that really good for the franchise, for it to be buried under a rock to maybe see the light of day again in a couple decades? Those of us around back when there was nothing, that dead time after Next mutation before the comics started anew...is that what is really wanted? Things don't happen in a vaccuum and it's possible that the utter failure of the movie could leach into other tmnt entities (cartoon, comics, etc.) so why root this on? It's amazing the "experts" around here who know exactly why it's failing and how to fix it. But really it boils down to what Pete said, rooting for anything to fail that doesn't make the world a better place, just seems flat out wrong. I only hope that you don't find yourselves one day on the other side of fence, being spat upon with glee, for a bad decision you made. That you don't pour your heart and soul (and maybe hundreds of millions) into something that while it fails, you get laughed right in the face. But in the meantime, carry on...

I couldn't have said it any better myself. Very classy response from Laird.

That's a great point, TMNT is hear to stay regardless of what versions we have.

Honestly? I lived through the "dead time" too, and looking back, I'm glad it happened. TMNT had earned a time-out. That increasing glut of lazy, cheap cash-in projects hurt the overall brand and drove it into the ground. I get that nobody wants to see something they love go away, but if it's all quantity and no quality, then what's the point of it continuing? Better to burn out quickly and come back stronger years down the line.

I'd hope that each iteration would thrive or fail on their own merits. But I think supporting something we consider poor for the sake of propping up the overall property is a pretty terrible idea -- lowering your standards just to get more product isn't fandom, it's addiction.

Personally? I think there's a difference between "celebrating its failure" and hoping its failure means better things in the future. While I am glad that this series might be at an end, it's not because I want the property to fail -- it's that I think these movies were a failure to the property, and I wish they'd done better in the first place.

That's not what he said at all

He also hates Venus as well.

To be clear, my issue is not so much the apparent failure of the project. You are right, we want quality over quantity. We shouldn't support a poor showing just to save a franchise, and constructive criticism is awesome. My point is that, and I'm certain you've seen it, so much of the noise around here is "The witch is dead!" "Yahoo, look at those terrible box office numbers!" etc. That celebrating of failure, the seething vitriol that plagues most of these threads lately, comes across as simply mean-spirited rather than helpful. And generally it's the same people, beating the dead horse in thread after thread, looking for more creative ways to express an obvious joy of the demise of the movie... that's the stuff that bums me out.

I’m always interested in what Peter Laird has to say about Ninja Turtles; his opinions don’t necessarily match my own, but that’s OK. I appreciate his ability to respond to things he doesn’t approve of in a measured and civilised way too, especially nowadays when public discourse seldom rises above the level of ‘sarcastic teenager’.

Yeah, sucks seeing this type of behavior going on around here, I enjoyed the new movie, cause it lived up to my expectations, those type of expectations maybe different from other people, but it delivered in what I wanted to see.

a lot of people outside these boards are expressing the same things, that I felt about this movie, It's just that 1% that's trying to be a downer.

Lol ok TC. 1% of us are "downers", that's why this movie is a ****ing financial CRISIS in the states.

I honestly would have been so much easier on OotS if there were actual fights, but it was a totally neutered baby movie. Probably would have made just as much profit and been better off if the made a Half Shell Heroes movie.

I thought that was called being disappointed and freely having the right to express it. That's just as valid... it's not them being a "downer" on anyone else unless those who are pleased with it believe only they have the valid opinion.

And pretty sure it's a lot bigger than 1%.



To me... the real downer is the fact that while I felt the Turtles as characters were done very well (sans a couple instances of cartoony Raph stuff), the rest of the film didn't measure up to that aspect of it.

I pick apart the narrative once I notice something is wrong. Hence my grievances with the movie. But hey I'm just a 1% downer what do I know?

If I didn't know better I would have sworn LeBron James wrote this :lol:

Its obvious Peter Laird has been Q's from LeBron's Passive Aggressive style :lol:

Wow..

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Eat my ass Michael. For real though.... honestly liked 13 Hours.