Originally Posted by CyberCubed (Post 1597289)

The show is fine. Watch the same people come here and post the same complaints from the previous threads over and over.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed (Post 1597296)

I'm talking about the episodes, they're fine. Obviously not every character itself is good or interesting.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed (Post 1597348)

There's no real difference. Season 1 is just when everything was starting out and we were getting used to the new personalities of the Turtles and all the characters.

The fillers in Season 1 about the Cockroach Terminator, the Wasps, Timmy's first two eps (I know they weren't fillers but either way), the one with the go-karts and water balloons, etc are not any better or different than the ones now.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed (Post 1597348)

The fillers in Season 1 about the Cockroach Terminator, the Wasps, Timmy's first two eps (I know they weren't fillers but either way), the one with the go-karts and water balloons, etc are not any better or different than the ones now.

Originally Posted by Allio (Post 1597287)

Anyone else feel like this regarding the nick incarnation. It feels like since season three, the episodes have been "It's alright, but could have been better" type of format.

Originally Posted by Aaronardo (Post 1597364)

When I watch Cockroach Terminator or Parasitica or any other Season 1 "filler," I don't feel like I walked away empty-handed like I do if I watch a filler from Season 3. Season 1 simply had better writing. Even with a premise that is incredibly worthless (like some of the episodes of that season), the writers for that season made sure there was enough well-directed humor and character interactions to make it an episode you want to watch again and again.

Seasons 3 and 4 simply don't have that. Season 2 somewhat continued the trend, but 3 and 4 just utterly abandoned it. Character dynamics that involved characters bantering and bickering with each other? Gone. A healthy dose of smart humor to add a backbone to the plot that's currently going on? Gone. (Maybe you'll see some off-the-wall joke here or there). The things that made the writing in Seasons 1 and 2 so interesting and fun to watch? It's all gone.

A new episode of this show used to mean fun to come as well as the interesting plot and action for me. Now, without that important layer, this show has become a chore to watch, unfortunately.

Originally Posted by Ninturtle (Post 1597399)

Honestly I found Season 2 to be the biggest step down because the show wasn't nearly as funny as season 1 which was a huge bummer. There's good episodes every now and then, and some new addition like Bebop and Rocksteady are ones that I really like but the shows writing just doesn't compare to season 1's.

Originally Posted by Aaronardo (Post 1597401)

A lot of the humor in the show these days reminds me of when I try to hammer out humor for my own writing. When it doesn't just come into your head and you think "oh, that's funny!" it just feels forced otherwise. And that's exactly what the humor in the show (with what little there is) is like. Forced. And for a show that doesn't take itself nearly as seriously as it probably should, that's a pretty fatal flaw.

Originally Posted by Splinter the boss (Post 1597489)

Wasted potential? Yes. It is those unresolved plots that I can't take anymore. Just Imagine it, The Karai situation could have been resolved long ago and we could have had her on the team by now. At least, that would give us something to look forward to after the break. Same thing with Timothy, it has been ages since Donatello said he was going to fix him and never did. Had he been fixed already, he could have been a solo character right now or part of the mutanimals etc..., so many possibilities.

Oh well, it's an animated show, we can't expect perfection.

Originally Posted by Electric (Post 1597506)

I'll be honest, despite loving this series, I do fee there has been a decline.

But I also honestly believe it's solely stemmed from these new plots. The farm house and Space episode I feel were the lowest quality. Space just felt so rushed, and maybe it was because they introduced new planets and characters every episode that they didn't have time to focus on plot.

I really think the episode quality will drastically improve now that they're back in New York. And I have now doubt some of the other plots will pick right back up.

I'm actually annoyed when people keep bitching about the Karai plot. No one wants that resolved more than me, as she's one of my favorite characters. But the show has not abandoned it. Ever since she's been transformed they have been looking for her. Even if it's just a quick intro of them out searching before being sidetracked by something else. And maybe it's felt abandoned because they've been in space for the past however many episodes. But that's only going to make it more meaningful when it's resolved. Karais plot has continually been brought up and addressed. Just because it wasn't resolved in two episodes doesn't mean it's abandoned.

The only plot that I fee really has been left alone (that maybe deserved more) was Timonthy. But you know what, the show still has time for Donnie to come back to it.

Originally Posted by Electric (Post 1597506)

I'll be honest, despite loving this series, I do fee there has been a decline.

But I also honestly believe it's solely stemmed from these new plots. The farm house and Space episode I feel were the lowest quality. Space just felt so rushed, and maybe it was because they introduced new planets and characters every episode that they didn't have time to focus on plot.

I really think the episode quality will drastically improve now that they're back in New York. And I have now doubt some of the other plots will pick right back up.

I'm actually annoyed when people keep bitching about the Karai plot. No one wants that resolved more than me, as she's one of my favorite characters. But the show has not abandoned it. Ever since she's been transformed they have been looking for her. Even if it's just a quick intro of them out searching before being sidetracked by something else. And maybe it's felt abandoned because they've been in space for the past however many episodes. But that's only going to make it more meaningful when it's resolved. Karais plot has continually been brought up and addressed. Just because it wasn't resolved in two episodes doesn't mean it's abandoned.

The only plot that I fee really has been left alone (that maybe deserved more) was Timonthy. But you know what, the show still has time for Donnie to come back to it.

Originally Posted by T-U-R-T-L-E POWA! (Post 1597536)

Donnie also promised Metalhead he would fix him as well and that's one of the things I'd like to see them return back to. However, I think sometimes we make the mistake of thinking something has taken a hit in quality simply because it isn't fulfilling a certain desire that we might have for it on a personal level. I still think the show has top notch production values, stellar voice acting, and goes to great lengths to please the fans of all ages. I mean let's be honest. This show has a huge challenge before it in that it has 3 generations of fans that it tries to please. There's my generation, which is the Fred Wolf generation. Then there's the 4Kids generation. Then there's the current generation. Plus it has even thrown a bone to the early comic book fan generation which actually precedes mine. Now if you are a little kid watching this you really don't care about all the fan service and if you're making this show you have to also try and give it its own identity. I think it's an admirable effort they put forth to strike a perfect balance. If any generation sorta gets left in the cold on this incarnation I'd say it's the 4Kids one. Still I really believe this is the ultimate "For Fans By Fans" version of the Turtles that we may ever see.

Originally Posted by T-U-R-T-L-E POWA! (Post 1597536)

Donnie also promised Metalhead he would fix him as well and that's one of the things I'd like to see them return back to. However, I think sometimes we make the mistake of thinking something has taken a hit in quality simply because it isn't fulfilling a certain desire that we might have for it on a personal level. I still think the show has top notch production values, stellar voice acting, and goes to great lengths to please the fans of all ages. I mean let's be honest. This show has a huge challenge before it in that it has 3 generations of fans that it tries to please. There's my generation, which is the Fred Wolf generation. Then there's the 4Kids generation. Then there's the current generation. Plus it has even thrown a bone to the early comic book fan generation which actually precedes mine. Now if you are a little kid watching this you really don't care about all the fan service and if you're making this show you have to also try and give it its own identity. I think it's an admirable effort they put forth to strike a perfect balance. If any generation sorta gets left in the cold on this incarnation I'd say it's the 4Kids one. Still I really believe this is the ultimate "For Fans By Fans" version of the Turtles that we may ever see.

Originally Posted by Splinter the boss (Post 1597630)

Of course the Karai plot would not be resolved in two episodes, it is a plot after all. However, when something so important as this takes this long, it makes people sick and gets them wondering when it is ever going to end.

Originally Posted by Electric (Post 1597797)

I completely agree. And as what I'd consider as the 4kids Generation, who is relatively left out, the show still has a lot of fan service that we can recognize.



I'm sorry but, so what? The reason it's seemed so long is the past 10 (or whatever) episodes have removed them from earth, trying to deal with a bigger problem. Now, if by the end of this season that Karai plot hasn't progressed, it may be stretching it out too far, but up until now there's no reason to be getting "sick" because of it. It's a huge plot, has been the focus of multiple episodes and has been addressed in many others. Relax and have some patience.

Also, consider how this will alter the show when it's resolved. If karai ends on splinters side, the turtles just gained their closest ally who, what, now lives with them? Does she go on every mission? Or if she doesn't pick a side, then what? She leaves the show for awhile? What's her excuse?
The only option that either won't change the dynamic of the show or leave fans missing her is if she somehow ends up back on shredders side.

Originally Posted by Electric (Post 1597797)

I'm sorry but, so what? The reason it's seemed so long is the past 10 (or whatever) episodes have removed them from earth, trying to deal with a bigger problem. Now, if by the end of this season that Karai plot hasn't progressed, it may be stretching it out too far, but up until now there's no reason to be getting "sick" because of it. It's a huge plot, has been the focus of multiple episodes and has been addressed in many others. Relax and have some patience.

Also, consider how this will alter the show when it's resolved. If karai ends on splinters side, the turtles just gained their closest ally who, what, now lives with them? Does she go on every mission? Or if she doesn't pick a side, then what? She leaves the show for awhile? What's her excuse?
The only option that either won't change the dynamic of the show or leave fans missing her is if she somehow ends up back on shredders side.

Originally Posted by victory_angel (Post 1597643)

^This^ Absolutely this. This version tries to be its own version, so it can introduce the Turtles to an all-new generation of fans, but leave things open for the generation of fans that have followed TMNT for the past 30 or so years to follow as well. And the producers artists, writers, are trying to give this series the love and respect the property deserves. After most of the staff are people just like us, the fans who have loved this franchise for the past 30 years in all it's incarnations. And they do try to bring in what was fun from every incarnation that has existed.

The way some people react to ideas and decisions done in the show, there is almost a sense of entitlement with some fans. That we feel we are owed an epic story centered around the TMNT just for being connected and involved with this franchise for the past 30 years.

I do agree the way they have the series hurting the narrative they are trying to set.

I do agree the kids network format does limit the series from going as violent and serious as we feel the show should be. But by and large, this franchise is going to be almost exclusively aimed at children.

Like it or hate it, this is just another version, in a number of years after this series is over there will be another version done by someone else and that will also bring it's own batch of complaints.

And if whoever is involved with it tries to please everyone, they will end up pleasing no one.

Originally Posted by Splinter the boss (Post 1597489)

Wasted potential? Yes. It is those unresolved plots that I can't take anymore. Just Imagine it, The Karai situation could have been resolved long ago and we could have had her on the team by now. At least, that would give us something to look forward to after the break. Same thing with Timothy, it has been ages since Donatello said he was going to fix him and never did. Had he been fixed already, he could have been a solo character right now or part of the mutanimals etc..., so many possibilities.

Oh well, it's an animated show, we can't expect perfection.

Originally Posted by TMNTInsighter (Post 1597498)

You've pretty much nailed it right there. As far as I've seen, it's also happened on a certain episode basis. Obviously, some point out that the tones from Season 1 and its later seasons are different as the turtles are growing up and facing darker situations. Leo's favorite show is cancelled, he had to step up in the finale, he's faced lost love, he was broken in more ways than one by his arch nemesis, and has had to fight and make decisions he never thought about way back when things were lighter and simpler in S1. But the tone's not what's wrong with these later episodes, it's about attention to detail and fitting in those little things that really drove certain S1 episodes.

Look at what "The Gauntlet" was able to cover in 22 minutes. Then, with episodes such as "Mikey Gets Shellacne" and "The Deadly Venom", which not only felt like you were dumped right into the middle of the story instead of the beginning, but also missed opportunities (even obvious ones) to add depth and development. In TDV for example, they had the henchmutants right at the beginning of the episode but they never focused on their thoughts or reactions to Shredder's action against Karai--more specifically Tiger Claw as he and Karai had been bickering like one of those old married couples who were fun to watch. With her back and as the kind of person Shredder always wanted her as, did it mean that he had her back as 2nd in command and whether or not that was the case, what did TC think of all this attention towards her and that he has to work with her again? There are other things but I'll cut it there. Speaking of Karai, while I liked how "The Fourfold Trap" concluded in its final scene similarly to how "The Invasion" concluded, the road to get there was awful! I basically just think they've lost this ability to use their 22 minute window to their full advantage.

We could do with more episodes like "Annihilation Earth" which not only takes some of the earlier seasons' strengths (ex. "Enemy of my Enemy", "The Invasion", etc.) but also builds on them.

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami (Post 1597891)

The show needs to be dynamic like that though. Why NOT have Karai join the team and stay with them for half a season or so? It's no different than having April fight and use psychic powers now. It's that kind of limited thinking that makes me wish cartoons were more like the comics. Too afraid to think outside the box.

The IDW comics went from 3 Turtles and Splinter trying to find Raph, to all of them reunited, to eventually forming a back up fighting team with Casey, Alopex and Angel, to now leading the Foot to Mikey walking out on them and living with the Mutanimals for a while, to being reunited again. It changes all the time. If Alopex can live with them in the comic for several issues, why the hell can't Karai live with them for half a season?

They're more willing to spend half a season in the woods or in space than to make Karai one of the good guys. It's stupid.

Originally Posted by GoldMutant (Post 1598029)

As much as I agree with you on many things, I can't agree on this. Ever since Karai became a mutant in season 2, the whole plot with her was reset after the excellent trilogy with her that season. In season 3, they stretched it out by having Karai go feral (a good idea, but not fully executed) and then bring her back to Shredder under mind control. That's not progress, especially when you consider she was merely in storage after The Pig and the Rhino, making cameos until two episodes I personally take issue with, The Deadly Venom and The Fourfold Trap. Problem is these episodes were near the end of season 3, especially after Northampton had 8 episodes.

Even if the Triceratons dominated the final season 3 episodes after FT, there's "reoccurring plots," and then there's backtracking a previous concept in a different plot. It's stale in my opinion; yes, I'm aware Shredder is a lunatic, but in terms of writing it's gotten old. Do something meaningful with Karai instead of repetitive storytelling, it's practically hot potato if they aren't going to attempt something new, especially because the mind control proved to be a waste. Unless reintroduced in some way, just a forced idea without story behind it other than "let's increase the drama!"



No, that's incorrect. I can argue all day on the series declining as well as my interest in it, but the general consensus is we know these guys once told a good story. Whether it be episodes like The Gauntlet, Slash & Destroy, and others, we know the writers can understand the material. However, whether it be actors difficult to get on, wasted concepts, and so on and so forth, that's where people are getting frustrated. Although I saw potential in each episode, it's increasing to a point of the episodes becoming a chore. Animation might be crisp and the voices do a solid job everytime, but in terms of script... no. A good percentage of people enjoyed this show and some still do, but for about one-third to one-fifth of people here, it's certainly losing luster.

As for kid's property and complaints, that's also not entirely true. Every franchise in some capacity has shown signs of evolution over the years. Properties such as the DCAU, Spectacular Spider-Man, Avatar, among others have proven one thing. Orson Welles once stated: "If you want a happy ending, that depends, of, on where you stop your story." Also consider Nick had Spongebob get away with a lot of nonsense over the years, certain relationships in Korra, and so on here. If a series wants to succeed in such a long standing franchise, taking elements won't sell it all the time. The only it'll succeed is if it evolves; considering the change of writers since season 1, a large amount of potential is squandered. Also considering the one place TMNT has evolved in is the comics primarily (the shows are subjective), TMNT will forever be a kid's property to most people as some don't read, they watch. Until that day comes, it won't entirely evolve with the times; if the show can't take risks, then you lose interest from repetition. That, in my opinion, is where the Nick show is going to fall; even after five seasons, the lack of purely interesting stories hurts it despite it's creativity in mutants and settings.

Originally Posted by plastroncafe (Post 1598019)

I honestly believe the studio thinks that if there's character growth the show would be less marketable. That they think kids won't be able to follow it.

Originally Posted by Speedy Cerviche (Post 1598868)

As long as the Splinter/ Karai/ Shredder plot gets wrapped up eventually I'm fine with when it happens. I feel that the end of season 4 will have alot of payoff. After reading Mirage and the Archie series any TMNT medium that gets to have closure is fine by me.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed (Post 1599514)

Archie had a sendoff.