Why do you all want the same movie over and over?
 

It seems all anyone wants when it comes to a new TMNT movie is Shredder and the Origin story. Why do you all want the same thing over and over again? Haven't we learned anything from spider-man and being force fed the green goblin?

A properly done one, sure. And the only complete Shredder and origin story we've ever gotten was 26 years ago.

Sure, to not go out and support sh*tty Spider-Man movies. Seems to have worked out well in that regard.

Well, for one thing, there hasn't been a FAITHFUL and/or GOOD TMNT origin movie done yet.

We can do better than the 1990 movie. And we can do a HELL of a lot better than Platinum Dunes' trash.

Wait a minute... this all may be a lot simpler than it appears.

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The 1990 film is absolutely perfect. Just go about updating that with some changes here and there and you have a great movie. The sequels can move into the weirder and different stuff once the first movie is out of the way

No, it's not. It's good but it's not perfect.

For one thing, the visual effects. Those puppet baby turtles look terrible.

For another thing, Darth Shredder. Stealing TVs. With a band of angsty teenagers. #notmyfootclan

I'm with Cylon on the 1990 film not being 100% perfect.
It was damn close, for certain, and has only the barest hints of Okamon contamination.

I was never overly fond of the characterization of Donatello in that movie, though I'm more than happy to overlook it for The. Best. Non-Mirage Michelangelo ever.

I kind of wish we'd seen Oroku Saki as well as Shredder.

That's what I meant by updating it for today. That stuff is a little goofy but can easily be fixed. 1990 is still my favorite though

I personally feel that Leo and Don were both pretty heavily sidelined in that movie. But the best version of Casey Jones ever.

Yeah, take the basic plot, get rid of Danny and Charles, more development for Shredder and Splinter, equal development for all four Turtles... it'd be perfect.

Yeah....I think Leo's characterization suffered when his beatdown at the hands of the Shredder was dealt to Raph instead.

And Yes. Yes! One thousand times Yes on Casey.
I quite liked April too!
(I was in a play with a gent who knows Judith Hoag well, and when I went on about TMNT during rehearsal he said something along the lines of, "Oh I'll be sure to tell Judy!")

It's hard to give equal developement for all four turtles in just one movie, on top of establishing everything else. I would be fine with Raph getting most of it in movie 1 (like in 1990), Leo/Donnie in the sequel, and finally Mikey in 3.

While I'd say IDW Casey is the best because of what they did with him and his father, 90s Casey is a close second. 90s April is pretty great and might be my favorite next to IDW.

Yeah... it worked having Raph get beat down, but it didn't leave much for Leo to do. At all.

You mean you don't think Megan Fox was a better April? :trazz: I kid, I kid...

Hoag did a great reporter / 80's April... I'd be curious to see who would be cast as a take on IDW/4Kids April, with more technical leanings and abilities.

Agreed. But I'd like them to give all four Turtles, at minimum, the development of Bruce Banner and Natasha Romanov in The Avengers. Not as much as Tony Stark and Steve Rogers, but still some sizable chunks.

My biggest issue with the 1990 film is that the turtles don't seem to notice the man in April's apartment. Plot hole!!!

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I don't like the PD films, and I surely don't like the designs. But what mainly bothered me about that movie was the screen-time for the turtles. As much as I disliked the look, I feel that in the short time they appeared, the turtles each got a fair amount of representation that I hope to see in any future films. But do away with mike being a creepy stalker...

It's the closest we've gotten, but still pretty far away. But if something like OotS is as far away as the other side of the Atlantic Ocean, TMNT 1990 is about a Bering Sea length away.

Maybe. That's a poor comparison IMO because I think mcu Hulk is severly underused and Widow is boring outside of her backstory. If I could get a gurantee that each turtle will get to have their time to shine over 3 movies I'd take it.

I'm highly biased here, in that I really don't usually like how Leo is written. For the most part I find him, and many characters like him, boring and uncompelling.

I didn't really start to appreciate Leo as a character until the 2k7 movie, where for the first time I got to see him as a perfectionist with an ego the size of the Empire State. That's when I started going back and reviewing other version of him and being a bit more entertained by him.

So yeah...to lose out on the character development of Leo getting taken down some notches dulls him a bit for me.

I can see why it was done, narrative wise, but...I'd really like some incarnation to give us a reason why Leo is the leader. Show us, not just tell us.

You joke about Fox, but I'll be honest: She and Raph were about the only saving graces that movie had.


OMG That's brilliant!

I agree it's a poor comparison. It was the best I could come up with at the moment.

Because remember, Hulk and Widow had both had previous film entries just a couple of years ago with The Incredible Hulk (never mind the recast) and Iron Man 2.

I guess X-Men Days of Future Past would be better? Most of the development to Xavier and Erik, but still substantial development for Hank and Raven? With Moira getting the amount of development needed for April?

DOFP is a good example for sure. I still like my idea best though :lol:

I don't think it's a matter of screen time or focus, but rather just giving the characters something to do.

We get a lot of development from Mike in that first movie, and he's nowhere near the focus.

Most people think that developement=screentime for some reason

This is why we have the Sexy Lamp Test.

At the moment, I honestly don't trust that a GOOD Ninja Turtles movie would ever get a sequel. Go the Christopher Nolan route and go all out with one movie, then come up with a sequel later. Don't leave stuff on the table for later with the assumption of "Eh, Mikey will get plenty of time to shine in a threequel..." Make necessary things happen NOW.

I love Leo; when he's burdened by the choices they've already made in "City at War" and wondering what it's all coming to... or when he's struggling with nobody to lead in Mirage Volume 2. But yeah, we really need to be SHOWN that Leo is the leader.

This is quite true. It's just easy to use the terms interchangably.

I'll argue that Cap gets NO development in the Avengers movie. He's just there in a terrible suit throwing his shield around. I really hate when Whedon writes Cap...

But Nolan planned a batman trilogy. I get what you mean though. Space out the sequels.

I think I just found a nickname for Nick Mona Lisa :lol:

More like, don't use hoped-for sequels as a crutch. You can't leave a major character out on a limb saying "Don't worry, we'll take care of him in a movie or two."

I getchu. Hate that sh*t. Everyone's trying to hop on the MCU train and it doesn't work. Certain stuff needs to be paced out though. If you want to do an origin story in movie one, that's great. But don't try to cram everything in there, like Utroms, Bebop/Rocksteady, all that good stuff needs to be built up or you can have a 3 hour runtime. It's all about having a focused story.

Exactly. Movies don't get to do an entire season's worth of characters and plots. Pick one or two that work well together and present a focused story, and DO IT.

Basically, if you worry that your film might be compared to Batman & Robin or Amazing Spiderman 2, DON'T DO IT. :tlol:

There's a big difference between the Shredder and the Green Goblin. In TMNT, The Shredder is part of the story's foundation. He's irrevocably tied into what forms the emotional core of the concept and the chain of events that lead to the Turtles' origin. Cutting him out or significantly altering him (like BayTurtles did) breaks the entire story.

He's also their "main" nemesis, yes, but his position in the foundation of the origin isn't the same situation as, say, the Green Goblin or the Joker. A better comparison is this: taking the Shredder out of the origin is like taking out the radioactive spider for Spider-Man or the mugger in the alley for Batman. He's what gives them their motivation and makes the story happen. You really have to start there, and any version that doesn't get that step right tends to fall flat on its face.

So?
 

doesn't mean they need to fight the same villain and tell the same story over and over again. MANY other stories to be told and villains to fight

You still need to establish Shredder as the big villain before moving on. He's as essential to tmnt as April, Splinter, or Casey.

Problem is: to the causal movie watcher, you cant have a tmnt movie without shredder. If they make a shredder-less movie, the casuals and critics will tear it apart and said movie will lose money.

He's MORE essential to TMNT than Casey and April. :tlol:

If you're going to start a new tmnt film incarnation, you start with Shredder. No "setting up for a sequel" bullsh*t. MYSELF included would be pissed if they only hinted towards Shredder.

2007 gets a pass because it can take place after the 1990 continuty if you ignore the comics. And that took place in a world where the turtles already fought him. Point is, it wasn't an origin story.

You've gotta explain where four giant mutant turtles came from and why they're ninjas.

You can't explain why they're ninjas without Shredder.

Yep, yep.


I have to say though, a day ago or two someone posted the idea of Hamato Yoshi being a villain and that's probably the coolest story idea I've heard. If done properly, that would be a great twist in the sequel (or at the end of the first).

Agreed. That would be a fresh and original spin on an old idea. If done well, as brilliant a new take as Karai being Hamato Yoshi's biological daughter twisted by Shredder, or the Turtles and Splinter being reincarnated.

I don't know if the reincarnation story could fit in with properly with the Hamato Yoshi twist. How would you do that?

No no no. I'm not saying mix them; I'm saying the impact of such a good new idea (if done well) would be equivalent to the impact of good new ideas like Miwa and reincarnated Yoshi clan.