Zach and the Neutrinos
 

Lots of people disliked/hated these characters back in the day. How did you feel about them back in the day and how do you feel about them now? Have your feelings changed at all?

I didn't like the Neutrinos at all when I was a kid. Their first episode was alright but I really didn't like seeing them return in their 2nd episode. I was just turned off by the whole Michelangelo and Kala thing. I was like 5-6 years old at the time I watched that episode and the last thing I wanted in my cartoons was romance. Nowadays, I don't care much about the Neutrinos but their voices are still a tad annoying and I wish they had never been introduced in show. Come to think of it, they debuted very early. You'd think they'd become regular returners but fortunately they only returned 3 or 4 times again.

As for Zach, I absolutely despised him on his debut episode. First of all, I see this episode which title is "The Fifth Turtle" and I'm like "W-WHAT?!"... then turns out it's a stupid teenage fanboy. I dunno, maybe it was jealously because he got to hang out with my heroes, but really Zach was annoying. Tbh, the episodes in which he was on were all pretty solid. In Bebop and Rocksteady Conquer the Universe and in Night of the Rogues he was pretty useful. As for nowadays, I'm apathetic towards him.

What about you?

I'm indifferent about the Neutrinos, mainly because I liked nearly all the eps they were in. It was also nice to see who Krang and the Rock Soldiers were actually at war with in Dimension X.

Funnily enough the Neutrinos are only in 5 episodes of the original cartoon overall. For some reason it feels like they appeared a lot more, but they didn't. They appear in Season 1, they get a Season 2 episode, they have the Grybyx ep in Season 3, they get "A Dimension X story" in Season 4, and then one last ep in Season 7 where they're brainwashed by Krang.

Yeah, considering they debuted on episode 4(this show had about 194-196 episodes, so that's quite an EARLY debut) and were used to tell us more about Dimension X and Krang's past, you'd think the writers had more ambitious plans for them.

And I don't think it feels like they were in more episodes than they actually were. A Dimension X Story is a pretty solid episode but didnt' care much for the Grybyx one, and I barely remember that season 7 episode where they get brainwashed by Krang, which is odd because I tend to remember every season 7 episode but that one,

And how do you feel about Zach?

The Season 7 ep is pretty great and I love the Season 4 ep they're in too. The Season 2 ep and the Grybyx ep are weaker, but they aren't horrible episodes. I actually prefer they weren't in too many episodes because otherwise they could have gotten bothersome, but they were spaced out just right.

Zach again I don't really care one way or another. Some of the eps he was in I liked, but it was for the plot of the ep itself, not because he was in it.

My least favourite Neutrino episode was the Grybyx one.

Well, yeah, despite finding them annoying, the Neutrinos and Zach didn't exactly get bad episodes. The writers seemed to like them and if the FW series had been a show with arcs and such I bet the Neutrinos would have shown up in more episodes.

The most regular returning character in the show was The Rat King. That guy must have gotten about 13 episodes, no?

Yes. It's kind of funny that when you actually count up the amount of episodes all the other villains or side characters appeared, it's only a handful of episodes. If the show only lasted about 80-100 episodes it wouldn't seem odd, but for a show that literally went on 193 episodes, it's pretty funny.

Zach is completely unbearable and even the turtles know it.

The Neutrinos are kind of mixed. I kind of like the idea of elfy pacifist aliens that are Jetsons beatniks. And the King and Queen one-upped their IDW counterparts by escaping Krang, but that required incompetence on the part of the rock soldiers.

But their babies having magic powers...ugh!

I didn't mind the Neutrinos at all when I was a kid. I actually quite liked them and found the episodes that they were in enjoyable. Didn't like Zach at all at first in "The Fifth Turtle", but he became tolerable in the later eps he was in, in which he was less annoying and more helpful. I feel the same way about the characters now as an adult as I did when I was younger.

I always felt the Neutrinos potential was underplayed. They were supposed to come from a race at war with Krang. Yet they dropped the ball with Zenter and Gizzala being fun loving as the Neutrino trio is. I liked the trio and wanted to see more of them. Not so much the king and queen because I felt their portrayal took away what the Neutrinos as a race or civilization were supposed to be like. IDW did much of what I always wanted to see with the Neutrinos race. Now, if General Blanque was folded into them like Fugitoid was even better. Que sera sera. I look forward to seeing more of them.

Zach, the so called fifth turtle is on my black list with Carter,Dregg, Image, and Next Mutation. He is just a high pinched whinny kid wanting to fit in. I assume he like Carter were brought in to relate to us as viewers. They were youthful humans getting to hangout with the TMNT in their lair. Its hard incorporating humans into the TMNT's social circle and I feel the flat and annoying approaches taken with my two least favorite TMNT 1987 characters are proof of that. Aside from April O'Neil and Casey Jones there are no other constants across the multi-media that have successfully carried over as a part of the TMNT's social circle. I think Irma can work. Others? Its hard to do. I think IDW having five at the same time is a record. Aside from the reoccurring two there is Angel, Woody, and Harold. There is also Lindsay by extension with the Mutanimals.

Well keep in mind that in the last 3 seasons, only Rat King of the side characters appeared again. The rest never showed up again. And the show changed its tone from season 8 on... still that leaves 5 appearances in 169 episodes. for the Neutrinos. Dunno in how many Zach appeared. Like 6-7?

The thing is, most people remember those characters since most only watched the first 3-4 seasons. I find it particularly a bit mindblowing how the Punk Frogs are still so well remembered.

Why are Dregg and Image on your blacklist? I notice you can't seem to handle change, or things that are different in status quo. For someone who is apparently a history teacher in real life, you should know things change.

And Jennika.

The reason why the Neutrinos felt much more present was because they were mentioned alot throughout the series and the Rock soldiers/Dimension X appeared quite alot, giving us the illusion of their presence.

I liked the Neutrinos due to their backstory, I enjoyed their episodes and wouldn't have minded them appearing more frequently. Oddly enough, Zach appears more than the Neutrinos themselves in the following episodes:

1. The Fifth Turtle
2. The Great Boldini
3. The Missing Map
4. Shredderville
5. Bebop and Rocksteady conquer the Universe.
6. Zach and the Alien Invaders
7. Night of the Rogues

I enjoyed his episodes and think most of them were good but found Zach himself just alright.

That's the same for any show that goes on a long time. People remember the first few seasons the best, so whatever character appear most frequently in the early seasons are always remembered. That's probably the only reason the Neutrinos and Punk Frogs are always remembered over other characters.

We all have things we like and things we don't. Dregg comes off as force fed bland Shredder/Krang hybrid. Image? Its nothing the way I like to see or read TMNT at all. It has nothing for me so I prefer to ignore it. I know there is a version you don't like at all of something you really like overall. As far as change, I have certain set likes. Hold true to the core and evolve from there. Keep the TMNT 1987 core in there and I am all for it. Its a part of what makes the first three films and IDW so enduring to me. Are either of those the same old? No. Are they at the root what I enjoy? Yes.

By extension as she is a ranking Foot,yes. Its hard to call her an ally/friend at this point. Time will tell and yes I do hope she will be one of the TMNT's social circle.

Dregg's nothing like them though. He is an insectoid warlord who originally tried to pretend to make peace with humans and sabotage the Turtles reputation, then in Season 10 he grew more and more insane and wanted to kill the Turtles at all costs. I'm willing to bet if Shredder/Krang weren't replaced you wouldn't have a problem.

The 2k3 series isn't like 1987 TMNT, and you seem to enjoy that.

From what I can remember, these are the number of episodes with the side characters appearing in the OT:

Lord Dregg = 16
Carter = 13
Baxter Stockman = 13 (14 if you count Barneys appearance)
General Traag = 12
The Rat King = 10
Zach = 7
Punk Frogs = 6
Neutrinos = 6
Casey Jones = 5
Leatherhead = 4
Kerma = 4
Groundchuck and Dirtbag = 3
Chrome Dome = 3
HAVOC mutants = 3 episodes
Slash = 3
Metalhead = 2
Mondo Gecko = 2
The Polarosoid = 2
Lotus Blossom = 2
Landor and Merrick = 2
Bebop and Rocksteadys gang = 2 (six if you count the silent gang members from season 1)
Usagi = 2
Hokum Hare = 2
REX 1 = 2
Tempestra = 2
Aunt Agatha = 2
Metalhead = 2
Wingnut and Screwloose = 1
Mona Lisa = 1
Scumbug = 1
Antrax = 1
Graanitor = 1
Razhar and Tokka = 1
The Triceratons = 1

Yeah the Neutrinos having a king was kind of lame. Always imagined them being a bunch of rebellious "degenerates". Or at least they should have had a leader around their age.

I honestly never had an issue with Carter. He fit the Red Sky seasons fine. And Dregg was a pretty solid villain and had a great VA.

Chrome Dome also got two appearances, as did Metalhead even if his second was just used as a vacuume cleaner. :lol:

This is not even counting all the Playmates toy mutants that never appeared at all.

The Punk Frogs were in six episodes? Really? And Leatherhead only in four? Man for such an important character of the franchise Casey appeared in very few FW episodes.

Tragg might have appeared in several but he didn't exactly star in most of them. He was mostly just there.

The one thing I will give the old show is that despite many of the side characters appearing so less, most of them completely stole the show and left quite an impression the few times they appeared. Casey Jones was awesome and had quite a presence. Even Nick Casey, who appeared in 70+ episodes doesn't have the same presence as FW Casey who only appeared in 5 but absolutely killed it everytime.

FW Casey was goddamn hilarious, especially in that Corporate Raiders From Dimension X episode :lol:

He is not as interesting and is forced. If there was some interesting goal or personality I would be all for him. I just cant find him interesting. Yes, to both he succeeds Shredder, my overall favorite villain and that greatly hurts his appeal. I would have rather have had Berserko set up as a successor villain as the main adversary. Doubt it would have hurt my interest in the underutilized Bersko/Drakus. That is why I wanted Dregg separated from being that villain who succeeded Shredder and Krang and he was with Nick surprisingly utilizing him. I cant get into him. No disrespect to Tony Jay though. He is great!

Do you mean a James Dean-like rebel leading a gang of youth not necessarily rebelling against the Neutrino government but refusing the fight in the war against Krang. I wondered why they would rebel considering Krang is an overload wanting to expand his reach and by defeating the Neutrinos he can do so. It seemed like you would want that teenager or not. It would have been cool to get into the war situation. Perhaps play it like The Vietnam War. The Neutrinos are trying to contain Krang's hold by utilizing the Nuetrino Doctrine opposed to the Truman Doctrine.

General Tragg had 12 appearances? Thanks. I knew the rest. I will have to compile a list now.

It's understandable that you didn't like Shredder getting replaced as the main villain and that the show ending with a final battle against Dregg was a bit of a letdown but Dregg was a pretty decent villain. He became more interesting in season 10 where he stopped being rational and calculating and turned into a madman obsessed with the Turtles like Shredder once was. Also Dregg attempted to murder Carter, he sent Hi.Tech out to die and he murdered A HANDFUL of aliens in the last episode, as he absorbed their powers. The guy was pretty hardcore!

General Traag appeared in:

1. Hot Rodding Teenagers from Dimension X (Season 1)
2. Shredder and Splintered (Season 1)
3. Usagi Yojimbo (season 3)
4. Shredderville (season 3)
5. The Big Break In (season 3)
6. The Big Blow Out (season 3)
7. Four Turtles and a Baby (season 4)
8. Rock around the Block (season 6)
9. Attack of the Neutrinos (season 7)
10. Shredder Triumphant (season 7)
11. Wrath of the Rat King (season 8
12. Turtle Trek (season 8

The number of episodes that have Rock soldiers, traag or not is a bit higher. Id say 20 at the very least.

What about Return of The Technodrome? I could have sworn he was in there at some point. It is strange seeing the hybrid foot solider and rock soldier army. It just seems natural that would have been involved. Like Casey Jones and The Rat King he was referenced several times during the series in which he did not appear creating a large presence regardless of his on screen time.


The two episodes that don't involve Shredder that I like of the final 16 (Dreggsodes as I call them) were Split Second (where Dregg is shoehorned in the last scene as the one who remade Chronos) and The Day The Earth Disappeared where Dregg repeats what Shredder tried to do more than once only this time instead of Dimension X to random dimensions. Arguably more evil since the TMNT know Dimension X enough they can figure a way out and being together more than likely instead of split up like they were in the episode with Dregg. Dregg was good in the penultimate episode. Yes, I did find myself rooting for Shredder vs Dregg and would have liked an energy sword fight between the two with Shredder out dueling Dregg. I was also annoyed then and still now was the Mobster From Dimension X episode saw Dregg behind the Globfather. The episode is a snoozer to me to begin with,but the TMNT automatically assuming it was Dregg behind it when they realize te threat has origins in Dimension X instead of Krang and/or Shredder when all of them were stuck there. Still, I legitimately tried to like Dregg and the Nicktoon was the best test, I just find him boring.

Yeah the Mobster ep was kinda lame and plus the scientist looked like Mirage Baxter to some degree.

Shredder isn't referenced in any single season 9 episode and in season 10... well he's not mentioned in the 5 episodes he does not show up in.

Btw, I also found the Turtle mutations pointless. They did come in handy against Chronos but other than that, meh. Spending two episodes on trying to fix Leonardo's mutation was a bit overkill, imo. Plus Dregg said that his genes were changed forever despite being cured... but nothing happened since then.

The Neutrinos are a joke that came about 30 years too late and they didn't really have any charm or other redeeming qualities, they're just weirdly designed things that were already dated when they were new.

With Zach it's easier, he's the kid sidekick cliché people usually hate. Except they're usually there from the start, or are least given a reason to be there and thus you just have to accept them, Zach just pops up out of nowhere and feels out of place. At least Cody drove the main plot and had a connection to previously introduced characters, Zach is just there for some reason.

30 years too late? They debuted in the first season, which came out in 1987. So how exactly would that joke have worked in 1957? Or are you just using hyperbole?

Zach didn't really feel out of place. I think Carter felt more out of place. He just reads as a self-inserted fan fiction character who was shoehorned for no reason. It was quite odd to see Splinter and the Turtles so quickly accepting him into the group just like that.

No, he is referring to their beatnik gimmick which was prominent in the late 60s' as well as the 1955-163 American culture they exhibit through the car models they drive and Zenter being a straight up Elvis Presley lookalike. had the Hot Rodding Teenagers From Dimension X episode aired in 1957 opposed to 1987 it would have been referencing then-modern youth culture. Instead it was parodying culture of a previous era. Its like David Wise watched American Grafitti when developing the first five episodes and threw the gimmick and referencing in with the teenage rebels of a war-like race bit.

Ah I honestly had never realised he look a bit like Elvis and that their cars were based on 50s cars lol

Honestly even outside of the OT most characters barely get appearances in the other series too. In the Nick cartoon outside of Shredder's henchmen, all the other mutants only appear in like 1-2 episodes at most as well. Most are one-shot characters or have 3 episodes at most.

Even in the 4kids series many of the secondary villains outside of Shredder's men and Bishop only appeared in a small handful of episodes. Touch and Go were only in 2 episodes, Garbageman only 2 episodes, Nano only 2 as a villain, Draco/Ultimate Ninja only in certain arcs, etc.

"Only" isn't the right word for Garbageman and Touch and Go.

I always loved them but was disappointed to find out they didn't appear as much as I thought they did in the series.

Well there's something you don't see everyday. You're like the first user here I see saying that they loved Zach and the Neutrinos.

I seem to have a thing for characters that most people despise. I liked Zach and the Neutrinos just fine.

I was a fan of the MikeyxKala teasing and as a character, I thought Kala was interesting, if underdeveloped. I would have liked to see more substance brought to the Neutrinos than what we got but their premise was enough for me to enjoy them when they showed up.

Zach I also liked, probably more so than most people. I never found him annoying, though I _didn't_ buy his age being 14. I always figured he was around 10 and trying to 'seem older' so he lied about his age so the Turtles would accept him. Just my head-canon but I run with it. I think Zach had an interesting relationship with the turtles and Splinter, particularly with Michelangelo. Given that Michelangelo, to me, has always been the youngest, Zach seemed to developed a littlebrother-olderbrother vibe with him that I thought was an interesting dynamic.

Yeah, now that you mention it Zach was a bit too immature for a 13-14 year old. 13-14 is 8th grade, or in my case, since I was born in November, it was already 9th grade. Even though I still liked the Turtles and watched the 2k3 series back in 2004/2005, I was not dressing up like a TMNT nor did I want to become one. I was more interested in other things by then. Remember that Bebop and Rocksteady Conquer the Universe episode? They show Zach briefly at school and he's being teased/bullied somewhat.

I should amend that to just the Neutrinos. I'm not sure who Zach is... I haven't seen the later seasons of the original toon and haven't seen most of the 2k3 series...

Zach was their kid friend introduced in Season 3. And you should watch most of the 2k3 series at some point.

Really? Zach debuted on season 3 and appears in other two episodes of that season.

Btw, how do you guys feel about Zach's brother Walt and his friend Caitlin?

I tried to watch it on Youtube once, but at some point the user had the episodes all dubbed backwards so I stopped watching them. Just haven't been able to track all of it down, at once on disk...