Do animated superhero shows get enough respect?
 

The recent DCEU and MCU threads made me start thinking about the animated versions of these characters--some of which have already covered the ground that is planned by these big franchises.

• Despite all the hoopla over Hulk in Thor: Ragnarok, people don't seem to realize there was a Planet Hulk movie almost a decade ago.
  
• A Wonder Woman animated film that treated the character seriously has existed since 2009.
  
• The Bruce Timm/Paul Dini DCAU was going God's work 25 years ago. Most of you are old enough to remember it, so I won't burden you with an explanation.
  
• Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes introduced a variety of characters into a sprawling Marvel animated universe that included the Fantastic Four and X-Men. They adapted "Secret Invasion," "The Korvac Saga," and other well-known stories. It even had Carol Danvers in a prominent role.
  
• The 1990s X-Men show adapted storylines faithfully and kept the characters intact. Also, in 2009's Wolverine and the X-Men, we saw an adult team that had to survive without the aid of the Professor.
  
• Spectacular Spider-Man built on the awareness generated by the Raimi movies without feeling like a retread. Obscure villains were introduced in ways that weren't silly, Norman Osborn was terrifyingly Machiavellian, and we had Gwen Stacy, Black Cat, and MJ.
  
• 2009's Hulk vs. gave us a snarky, gleefully murdering Deadpool and a no-holds-barred version of Wolverine.
  
• DC's Animated Universe line has given us a variety of interpretations of well known stories and characters since 2007. Young Justice and Green Lantern: The Animated Series were also pretty good.
  
• Transformers Prime and other recent adaptations of that material take more risks in terms of story than their Michael Bay produced counterparts.
  
• The 2003 and 2012 TMNT cartoons clearly have more to offer than the Michael Bay produced film versions.

Those are just a few examples, I'm sure others can come up with more.

In the mind of the average media consumer, do these things only count as something to be widely viewed and appreciated when they are live action and cost hundreds of millions of dollars to make?

Well in terms of Internet circles yes however when it comes more to the average viewer most adults see cartoons as kids stuff barring "adult animation"

Nah, Batman: TAS is the only show that gained a following among adults, simply because everyone who was a kid in the 90's when it first aired is now an adult. Other cartoons either didn't age as well and the movies they put on DVD are too obscure.

And yeah, the west still has a stigma that "cartoons are for kids." I mean far less people would see an animated Batman movie in theaters over a live-action one. They actually put Mask of the Phantasm in theaters back in the 90's, it's considered one of the best Batman movies ever made, and it completely bombed. And that's back when B:TAS was the current cartoon on the air.

plus Batman the Animated series was following a very similar vibe to the 1989 Tim Burton Batman movie, which was hugely popular.
that gained it a very large adult fanbase at the time of release.

the series had fully scored episodes, brilliant writing and A-list voice talent.

i'd say these are the largest reasons for the series continued success.

even though some of the direct to video comic movies are very good,
they never quite reach the same level of quality of the original few seasons of Btas series.

even Bruce Tim's Superman animated series, New Adventures of Batman, and Justice League/Justice League Unlimited
aren't made of the same quality as his first run of Batman cartoons.

Not even other DCAU cartoons get the same amount of respect which BTAS seems to demand. And I can understand it too. Batman was a show which got very personal with its characters, even the ones who showed up in an episode and then disappeared forever. It was very character-driven. Something like Justice League - despite being the same creative team, same voice actors - might be seen as more for the kids because of its more rote 'world in peril' cycle every episode. The super-threats are so outlandish that an adult won't see as much as a stake, and be invested in the outcome. A priest trying to help his mobster brother choose a better path in life is a lot more compelling.

Of the other shows you listed (which I've seen) I think Wolverine and the X-Men comes closest to BTAS since that smaller sense of scale is there. I think the X-Men as a team go to action only a few times in the entire series; often its one-on-one conflicts (usually focusing on Logan).

The truth is nobody really cares about cartoons unless they're adult sit-coms like Simpsons or Family Guy, etc.

The only cartoons that really made an impact are either ones that were a cultural fad like the original Ninja Turtles cartoon, or a show that made a huge impact like B:TAS, etc. But even if there are other better or just as good superhero cartoons...it's like nobody cares.

The only reason these cartoons are remembered is because all the kids who grew up with them are now adults and we talk about them. But otherwise in the mind of the general public they're pretty much forgotten.

Hell there's still people to this day who have no idea Mark Hammil voices the Joker for 30 years, simply because they only know him as Luke Skywalker.

You have all these normies who only watch the Marvel movies and consider themselves nerds while we the real nerds have enjoyed much better interpretations and stories from these characters because we're cool with watching cartoons.

Who cares if they don't get recognition as long as we get to enjoy these superior interpretations.

Well.... most adults don't have time to watch cartoons, or even care about them. Yeah, I watched Batman the Animated Series and 90's X-Men and whatnot, but I was a kid back then. Batman was on after school and X-Men was on Saturday mornings.

Honestly if these shows aired today, I'd miss them because I'd be at work or out with friends. Yes, I do watch Family Guy and anime on Adult Swim... but they're at night, when I'm actually home. If Family Guy was not adult comedy and aired earlier in the day I'd miss it because, again, I'm at work.

Movies are different. Anyone can find time on a day off to gather some friends to watch a movie. It's an event. A night on the town. You don't have to sit and watch Thor Ragnarok the 3 season series in the middle of the day every day at a time that you're supposed to be at work.

I think it's the same with anime really. It still has that "nerdy" stigma in the U.S., it's not like everyone is going to say, "Let's go watch some anime!" and not have normal everyday people cringe. I know this is kinda sad but that's how it is.

People would rather watch Fast and the Furious then watch anything animated. Dudebro stuff.

^ beautifully stated! thank you.

???

Gravity Falls/ Adventure Time/ Star Vs the Forces of evil/ Steven Universe??

All big time shows that are geared towards kids gained a wide variety of followings.

Samurai Jack? Adult Swim version?

I myself am a fan of Milo Murphey's Law but it doesn't have as big as fan base as the others sadly :ohwell:

Your comments are flawed.

No, No Animated series has got proper treatment or respect besides Batman series or films.

Cubed is not wrong, adults don't watch cartoons like those, don't confuse nerdy online fandoms with real life. Cartoons have gained a lot of acceptance over the last two decades but it's nowhere near mainstream. You can't compare small market niches like that.

For example, if you were to go to your co-workers in real life and tell them you still watch cartoons outside of stuff like Simpsons/Family Guy, etc. they'd probably laugh or say they don't watch or have time for cartoons anymore.

Maybe you'll find some DC/Marvel fans but they'll probably just talk about the movies.

How do you guys find time to even watch cartoons anymore?

Kind of where I'm at with watching cartoons. I'm still working my way through season 4 of Nick's TMNT.

It's cheaper and safer than clubbing :lol:

I mostly watch stuff I own on disc during rest times on weekends...I don't have any streaming services and I don't go to movie theaters that often. I live two blocks from a library, so there's always something cool to do without spending a lot of money.

I find myself reading or doing art more often though. It might take me a month or two to get through a season of something. I tried to watch the original Gundam anime a while back but ended up ordering the manga volumes instead. Sometimes TV series pacing feels too slow for me in comparison to prose or comics.

These days, I don't watch TV in general unless it fits in with something else I'm doing.

I watch at least 4 episodes a night of whatever current cartoon I'm watching. I use 1.5 speed for movies though, but cartoons don't work as well sped up due to the animation.

I have to watch shows with hundreds of episodes, no wonder I get through them so fast. Thank god I'm not much an anime fan outside of like a few shows, I can't image piling up even more.

I usually just watch 2-3 episodes of cartoons at a time every now and then, Sonic Boom being the most recent.

I marathon through both old shows and new ones constantly. It's easy to make a schedule.

This is my problem I can barely squeeze watching one show a day most days, it's rare that I get to watch more than that. Nothing against TV or video games, I loved them as a kid but I usually prefer to do other things with my time, whether it's reading or just running. Juggling time between work/freelancing/university/significant other, it's difficult.

I don't watch shows that are currently airing, I have no patience to wait week after week and also through hiatuses.

I pick a show that's finished usually and I watch through it, if I have nothing to do I can binge it but I have no problem with watching one episode a day even if it takes me two or four months to finish "one" show, since it's over there is no rush to finish it.

I don't really re-watch shows, I usually try to find something I haven't watched, for example if I"m nostalgic for a 90s cartoon I'd rather search wikipedia for a show I have never watched like say Bonkers than see Gargoyles again even if Gargoyles is a better show and even as a kid I only watched an episode or two of Bonkers since it didn't appeal to me.

When it comes to re-watching I need to let a lot of time pass so the show feels "new" again to me, if it's too recent like I only watched it 3 years ago even if it's a long time it's still "recent" in my memory. I love the DCAU but I haven't watched any of it since the last JLU dvd set came out nearly 10 years ago. I'd rather watch other DC shows I've never checked out like say Beware the Batman. Since it's been around 10 years since I last watched the DCAU I'm guessing when I do I will be delighted again.

When I'm finished with a show I usually save it as "I would like to watch this with my future son/daughter" or "I need to watch this one more time before I die", or if I really love it I think "I need to watch this at least 3 times more before I die" :lol:

Wow, that's weird. I rewatch shows all the time, especially my favorites. I can never just say, "Well that was a good show but I don't think I'll watch it again."

What is the point of watching things if you don't plan on rewatching them?

The only reason I rewatch something is if I'd like to focus on other aspects of the film besides the main plot.

So you guys don't even rewatch shows you know you liked or loved? I mean here's a small sample of shows I rewatch regularly:

1. Original TMNT cartoon I marathon every 3 years or so, but I've seen every ep countless times as a kid so I'm not counting this.

2. I've rewatched the TMNT 2k3 series at least 5 times.

3. I just rewatched all of Nick TMNT a second time, so I've seen every ep twice.

4. I rewatched the entire DCAU every few years. Seen B:TAS episodes countless times, rewatched Superman, Batman Beyond and Justice League all at least 4 times.

5. I rewatched the 2003 Teen Titans cartoon at least 4 times.

6. I rewatch classic era Simpsons (Seasons 1-10) countless times, although I'm due for another rewatch.

7. Rewatched X-men Evolution 4 times, Wolverine and the X-men twice, Avengers: EMH twice.

8. Rewatch some anime as a kid like Dragonball Z, Pokemon, etc. many times. (And these shows have hundreds of eps)

9. Rewatched Garogoyles at least 5 times the whole way through.

10. Rewatched all of Futurama around 3 times.


And this is just a small sample. I can't never imagine rewatching shows I liked in the future.

It's especially difficult when a show is more than 100 episodes since it requires investment over a long period of time if you're only watching 1 episode per day or to marathon it in a weekend and do nothing productive :lol: that's why I secretly dread long shows and look on wikipedia for shows cancelled after one or two seasons. I then complain that I would've loved for this show to have had more episodes :lol:

This way I've discovered amazing obscure cartoons, so it's good. And if they're awful then at least they're only 13 episodes or so.

I like re-watching stuff but 3 years apart? that's too soon, I'd get tired of it. I love Jurassic Park, my favorite movie but I don't let myself re-watch it more than once every 3 years, and that's only one movie and my favorite one, so other franchises have to wait a little longer.

Also with the shows form my childhood that I want to re-watch / old shows I never watched / new shows that are coming out and my limited time, my queue only gets longer and longer. I've been meaning to re-watch Mighty Max again since it's been ten years but I keep bumping it and bumping it :lol:

and no, not doing the 1.5x speed~!

Obviously as a kid I re-watched shows a lot.

Whenever I rewatch things I just skip to the part I like, I rarely watch the whole thing

I usually only watch 4 eps a day of whatever show I'm watching, and even with a schedule like that I manage to completely finishing rewatching shows in a month or less. Only a few shows I watch have 100 episodes or more, and even then it doesn't take much more than 2-3 months to rewatch it.

Back in 2015 I rewatched all of Dragonball/Dragonball Z and the movies/specials to prepare myself for Super and I did it all in about 4 months I think. And that's like 400+ something episodes. :lol:

I wrote a term paper for a media class on the Alien movies and ended up marathoning them a couple of times. I also covered the 2014 video game Alien: Isolation is my analysis and played through the main game and two of the DLC campaigns.

Yes, but you see... you have no life, no friends, no job and never leave the house. Not all of us, even if we're in a TMNT forum, have all that free time. Stop acting so surprised that not all of us have time to marathon shows and game all day.

CyberCubed has stated numerous times before that he does have a job, and I believe him. I mean he is a 32 year old man. How else would he survive? He's been on welfare since he left College or something? Dunno if I believe him when he says he plays a ton of games and watches stuff everyday. Either he barely sleeps or he exaggerates about the stuff he watches and plays just to get more "nerd cred" :P

you n00bs don't know the power of 1.5x speed.

...I've only heard of people doing that for anime and cartoons. Never for live action tv and movies. I'd never be able to enjoy watching anything at 1.5x speed. All the skipping and sped up high pitched voices? Ugh. A show is something you watch to entertain yourself and also relax. Not something to speed up through like it's some boring domestic chore. Same reason I don't like to watch over 7-8 episodes of a show in a day. It gets tiresome and feels more like work instead of entertainment.

Oh good Lord.... I feel sorry for any co-worker that brings up the Turtles in any way, shape or form. Especially if during the Bay era he happened to overhear one of his co-workers say something like 'Oh yeah, we're gonna watch Ninja Turtles this weekend, it looks awesome!' He was probably biting his tongue as to not jump in and correct them.