Which Star Wars movie has done the most damage to the franchise?
 

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I'm curious. Which movie, in and of itself, do you feel has damaged... if not the credibility, then perhaps the reputation of the franchise most?

Allegedly, Phantom Menace, it's my favorite movie out of prequel trilogy, but there is no denying, people started seeing, that prequels certainly won't be up to the style and more importantly, quality of the OT, since this movie.

Attack of the Clones is my least favorite movie in the franchise, as of now, but aside from it being boring as **** and cheesy, it's was just mediocre and par for the course for the PT.

Yeah attack of the clones was the least interesting to me also.
I liked the original movies better than the prequels.

I feel like I should rewatch them all before I vote, and get around to finally watching Rogue One for the first time, too

But it's gotta be one of the prequel three

Attack of the Clones (and Revenge of the Sith really), purely because of Hayden Christensen's awful **** "acting". When he cries or throwing a childish tantrum it just makes me wanna laugh, I can't take him seriously. That sand talk with Padme lol wtf.

I don't think Attack of the Clones is that bad...until you get to Hayden and the love story.

Where's the option for the Holiday Special? :twink:

I didn't care for episode 7 or Rogue One... but ep7 gets the vote cuz it was episode 4 rewound... bland and you could see the death coming a mile away...

The first movie did the most damage to the franchise Ninjister? :lol:

I say TFA, not because it was bad from a technical standpoint, but because it was too predictable.

I'm curious, what damage to the franchise did TFA do, exactly?

How do you define damage, thread is ambiguous.

Finacial damage? TFA? none. Prequels? none. On the contrary the IP is as valuable as ever and has been with each release.

Plot damage? TFA? high, didn't move the plot and instead hit reset. Prequels? some but not to the amount fans whine about.

Brand damage (not to be confused with fanboy damage)? TFA? little. Prequels? little. Yearly movies in the short term? some. In the long term? high.

Fanboy damage? TFA- first 0 but now it's been rising over the past two years. Prequels? Total disaster.

The Han solo solo movie. Recasting the iconic Han Solo will do damage.

I'm definitely doing a rewatch before movie 8. I want to try my viewing order

Lol Force Awakens is winning. Any reasons why it's damaging? Oh wait I think because the villains suck - Kylo Ren is a whiny brat and I prefer Jarr Jarr Binks as the Sith Lord than lame ass Snooke.

TFA greatly damaged the credibility and creativity of the franchise. After it, particularly with it being the first movie post-sale, we can no longer trust that subsequent movies will take us to new places creatively or thematically. Even the worst of the prequels (and yeah, Attack of the Clones is probably the worst of them, pound for pound) at least didn't do outright retreads.

What's' your viewing order?

Attack of the Clones is the weakest of all the movies, but I don't think I'd call any of them particularly damaging.

theoretically building on "Flash back" watch order, going

Rogue One > 4 > 5 > 1 > 2 > 3 > 6 > 7 > 8

should be right

basically it boils down to

The Empire > “There is no Hope” > an extremely dangerous person (Darth Vader) appears > Suddenly a new hope > Someone that can stand against vader > holy ****, vader is luke’s father > the origin of Vader and the Jedis > How the villains won > Episode 6

Now I haven't tried this watch order yet like I said, so I don't know if this truly would work. But Rogue One honestly feels like a good "set-up" movie for the rest of the franchise.

Han Solo film probably would go right there between 6 and 7 as not only does it give it a bit more background before Solo's death, but also a good "break" before "time skip"

The new stuff is damning SW to the same nostalgia-wank retread BS that TMNT is going through, so I voted TFA.

I voted TFA. Because of ALL the material they ALREADY HAD to work with post-Return of the Jedi (Come ON, why didn't they go with the Heir to the Empire trilogy??!!), they literally threw half the "history" out the window in favor of a lame AF retread of the original trilogy, condensed into one movie. Hero found on Tatooine? Check. Snowy planet with a hidden base? Check. Sith/Dark Jedi who turns out to be related? Check. Search for "only hope for the galaxy"? Check. And so on..... And to top it all off, they skipped ahead 30 years, missing everything that COULD have gone in between, just to "explain" the age of the three main original cast. Seriously, they could have at LEAST used some of the stuff from the Young Jedi Knights series or even Truce at Bakura as background/plot material. But no. Instead we got- THIS. Scrap everything from the last 30 years in favor of a cheap cop-out "reboot" of half the franchise.

Definitely don't blame them for not adapting any of the EU stuff. Not a whole lot of that would have worked cinematically... and I don't know that straight up adaptations would have been remotely interesting or suspenseful as episodes 7-9. But any of that would have been way more satisfying than the FAKE episode 7 we got that is a straight up scene for scene remake.

Just a question- how much of the EU have you actually READ? Because I have read EVERYTHING up to the sixth YJK book. Han and Leia's REAL kids were awesome, and anything from that time period would have made a great movie(series). Truce at Bakura introduced a new threat that BOTH sides had to deal with, the HttE trilogy was arguably one of the BEST storylines in the entire franchise, and then you had several really GREAT stories like Vector Prime (Chewy's swan song). I honestly would have preferred to see any of those stories. Vector Prime in particular, even though I could not finish the book after the escape from the Corellian shipyard. It was just so painful and sad. And I really would have LOVED to see Mara Jade on screen. And the Clone Luke.

I read all the way up until a couple books past the Vector Prime business. The comics too. About 30 novels in all, maybe more. Probably closer to 50 with all the Young and Junior Jedi Knights stuff. Very little of that would work on the screen satisfying as trilogies and even if so, only with massive reworking and compression. But even if so... where would be the suspense? "What happens in episode 8? I guess I'll just read Darksaber and find out." Or whatever.

So how is that different from what the Harry Potter or Hunger Games movies did? I mean, considering how many movies are novel or comic/graphic novel adaptations, there is 0 reason why that would not have worked for Star Wars. That's like saying novels or comics should not be made into movies at all just because some people have already read the books. That's not the point. It would have made for better, more ORIGINAL stories, with "new" characters that MOST audience members would not have been familiar with but who already had fans among the franchise. It would have been a win-win. but they axed it ALL in favor of Anikin2.0(Kylo), a cheap Palpatine redux(Snoke) and the basic rehash of the entire original trilogy. Heck, even Luke and Mara's wedding comic storyline could have been adapted. For that matter, we could have had any or all of the stories from the Tales books, sort of like what they have done with Rogue One. (My personal picks would be the Tanaka sisters, Oola's and the "fat" dancer's stories, and Rancor keeper's story.)

But this is Star Wars.

What difference does THAT make? Seriously that is a poor argument for not using existing material. If anything, most of the material I mentioned could have EASILY been adapted, just like It, or The Dark Tower, or any of a dozen other recent movies I could name. All of them adapted from novels- which in honesty is not that hard. You mostly just have to convert it to script form and edit out as necessary. I have written plenty of comic scripts(for my comic series), and they are not that different from a screenplay script. Adapting a novel isn't much harder- you just have to know which parts to keep or discard for the movie, or break it up like they did with It or the final HP book.

Just because you can do a thing doesn't mean you should. The EU fantastically blew itself up, and it only existed at all because Lucas firmly had no plans for 7-9. When that changed was just about the time the EU became toxic... perfect time for a clean break and fresh new post-ROTJ future. It's only unfortunate that it became TFA.

You can't adapt the novels because the actors were now old, Episode VII should've been what Lucas intended it to be, His ideas and have another person direct it which is the best of both worlds. Disney instead decided to scrap all the outlines and remake Episode IV.

As far as the old EU, I don't blame Disney for erasing it completely for the simple fact that there is already so much that has already happened in it. Their idea of having the EU actually being "same level" canon as the movies was stupid though since only a few years in an the new EU is just as silly as the old one and the ratio between good/bad stuff seems to be the same as before if not slightly worse.

I think the best approach would've been to make the movies as they wanted and have the EU deal with all the clean up of why things don't match like the EU had to do when the prequel trilogies started contradicting everything and they retconned tons of stuff.

Who cares how much had already happened? The majority of movie audiences didn't know about any of it, and the fans would have loved to see that stuff on screen. That was kind of my point. Like with HP, everyone already knew who many of these characters were, or were introduced to them through the movies, but the stories were already there, the movies just brought them to life and to a wider audience. And would not have required a ton of mental or writing gymnastics to explain why there was a completely different canon/timeline. (And they could just as easily have used stories that had minimal use of the original characters, just like TFA did- but with the original EU.) Heck, Jacen and Jaina's story in the YJK books would have been far preferable to Kylo. And it was even fairly close to the original actors ages now.....

But, again... it's Star Wars. You're talking about a movie franchise where millions of people are upset they don't see the Twentieth Century Fox logo at the beginning of the new ones.

now THAT is what i call 'PUNK ROCK"!!! :lol:

I would say Return of the Jedi was heavily damaged by George Lucas post theatrical release. All those reissues with added out of place-awful CGIs... I pity my blu ray disc. Horrible alien singer and that ending scene with the people cheering and spacecraft flying look so bad.

Should've left it untainted like Planet of the Apes or other classics. A ruined relic indeed!

Damage to the franchise? Not so much.
Damage to itself? 1000% yes.

I don't agree. I wouldn't mind never ever seeing that original version ever again.

Without question, Phantom Menace. And that's not even my least favorite film of the franchise by any stretch. It's just fact. Introducing midichlorians dissolved the backbone of what made the whole universe special. Even though they never reference it again, what's done is done.

Not to mention, before it, the Star Wars movies in many people's minds were untouchable(minus the few who disliked Ewoks.). Phantom Menace gave them midichlorians, Jar Jar Binks, Vader building C3PO... just.. enough new things that made people wake up and go ".........Oh..."

Those are fair points. But they basically equate to, "Yeesh, these new things really suck to me" which -- to me -- seem way lower on the totem pole than, "Wow, holy sh*t, this whole Star Wars movie is just a recreation of another Star Wars movie."

Honestly, I think it's less any one movie and really just Disney's acquisition of the franchise in general. The magic is gone, at least for me. They're not going to take any risks and are probably not telling many stories that don't at least involve the Force and probably some primary characters from the original trilogy. I was willing to see where their new trilogy was going to go, but I knew just from the early trailers and the posters that yeah, no, it wasn't going to do anything original. I pretty much stopped caring about Star Wars. Red Letter Media joked that they expect things like the Han Solo film to actually show the Kessel Run and it sounds too plausible, given they made a movie about the theft of the Death Star plans.

They are probably going to hit a wall, at some point, especially if they keep pushing yearly entries in the canon with little creativity or risk. Maybe sooner rather than later. At some point, they'll stop feeling special, which is when we'll see just how strong the brand is and whether it can hold despite that. It'll be really interesting to see what happens to its appeal after it goes on even longer and the original Lucasfilm entries comprise a smaller and smaller part of the core series. That point will be pretty soon. At one a year, it will be four or five more before the original Star Wars comprises less than half and the original trilogy itself less than a quarter.

The saddest casualty is probably the stuff outside the movies. The comics and novels have been almost exclusively around the original trilogy until recently, when they made the huge step of doing something that went back to somewhere around the prequels. The games just died outright, with any creativity or originality stripped from them, and that's not likely to change anytime soon, judging by what happened to Visceral Games.

While I agree I'd rather have new stuff that sucks over regurgitate old material, Star Wars kind of has it's own in-universe explaination of why everything would repeat itself: "Everything rhymes!" TFA is low on my list for that same reason, but it's still a very competantly made movie that just, unfortunately, severely lacks in originality.

I'm 100% positive we'll see the Kessel Run, we'll get a mandated joke about "parsecs" correcting the ages old thing, we'll get Han rescuing Chewie with the life debt, probably some reason for him saying "Never tell me the odds!" and we'll get Han winning the Falcon from Lando. That's the movie, for sure. Lame.

Except for the fact that the movie right after it was the best thing the words "Star Wars" have ever been attached to. Or... dare I say it... the only good movie in the entire series.

I've enjoyed a few of them, but Rogue One is the only one I would ever consider good by any measure.