Kentucky school shooting: 2 students killed and 17 others injured
 

Another school shooting in USA:

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/01/23/u...ing/index.html

Man, why does this keep happening?

No one really knows.

Because it's hard to get access to good mental healthcare and it's easy to get guns

Because scumbags take those "gun free zone" signs as a challenge.... And Teachers & other staff cannot be armed... or properly teach... or bitch slap kids when they get out of line.

Criminals think twice about attacking anyone who can fight back. Easy targets are easy after all.

I take it back, apparently we do know why these things happen.

Man, the truth is way more victim-blaming that I'm strictly comfortable with.

oh conservacapz don't you ever change. Ya lets let teachers hit kids and have guns Let me know when your NRA check comes in the mail

https://i.imgur.com/OTshcdf.jpg

Because, ultimately it is what it is?
Not in a sense, that teachers should have guns - this is idiotic, but in a sense that those shooter are psychopathic losers, who lose their minds, blame and kill everyone for their troubles, because, their mental state is so fragile they can not face the fact that a lot of their problems are of their own doing and they should improve themselves or seek help instead of killing others for their problems.

As someone who has younger siblings in public school, it is terrifying to know this could happen literally anywhere at any time.

I don't know that a lot/any of these shooters are guys that shopped around for a good psychiatrist or mental health doctor and then instead went out to buy guns to murder a bunch of people because their health insurance wouldn't cover it.

If I were still studying HS I'd be somewhat alarmed, I remember when I was in Jr. High and HS, we used to have "intruder" drills we all f-cked around during them since they seemed like something we'd never do, but every time these things are happening closer and closer to where I went to school. I'd be even more alarmed if my future kids were in HS right now.

All it takes is one dumb person and access to guns. The problem is I knew plenty of people like that when I was in HS. Hell a recent graduate from my city was recently arrested for animal abuse which 4chan helped track down funny enough. There were plenty of people like him and all it takes is one bad day for them to say "**** it".

Same with teachers having sex with students, the fantasy of all HS boys but I've now read stories of teachers from schools that I went to happening.


I remember as an angsty teen I wanted this t-shirt:
https://i.imgur.com/tPgtOjN.gif

Back then I don't think it was that much in bad taste, but I definitely do now, you can probably fill up the tour dates with only one year while this one needed almost a decade, Scary.

This Onion article couldn't be more true:
‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

It wouldn’t hurt to have smaller class sizes and better training for teachers. So teachers can have daily interactions with students not just lecture. Get to know the students personalities and life struggles. Be trained to know the signs of wanting to hurt others. Know when a professional referral is necessary and not let at risk kids go unnoticed.

Unfortunately that sort of thing doesn't immediately help kids pass standardized tests, and that's kind of where public education is focused right now.

Well that, and depending on where you happen to be, keeping the lights on.

Staying a float, money and test scores are priority in other words. Safety is a far far away dream. Sadly it would have to be like many schools a day being shot up for something to radically change.

I say mandatory firearm training for teachers (then they need to go to the range at least once a quarter), pistol kept in a secure lockbox in the classroom accessible only to the teacher (whether it's a key, combination, biometrics, whatever is most secure and makes the most sense). It's not a perfect solution but it would save a lot of lives.

As is? The moment a gunman enters a school, they can basically walk around, go wherever, shoot whoever for at least a good 20-30 minutes or more completely uncontested before there is even the slightest chance of any police arriving at the scene to assess the situation and intervene. Those aren't good odds and that's not a good system. That's a "fish in a barrel" system.

That's absolutely crazy but I'll stop right there.

Then you would have more teachers gone wild news stories. Teachers shooting up students. Or shootings happening when substitutes are on duty. It’s already to late as soon as a gunman steps on school property the damage is done.

Why on earth would you think that?

The odds are pretty good the other 10+ teachers in the school are not substitute teachers on the same day. And by this example, why not demand the substitute teachers get the same training? You want to substitute teach in X District, you better be hitting the range, etc..

That's a horrible, defeatist attitude. I mean, it's absolutely the case right now but surely we can do better that just having everyone hide under desks throwing "thoughts and prayers" at the shooter(s) marching down the hallways.

You would still have an old west shootout at school traumatizing many people. Early prevention is best. It’s about saving all the lives not just a few.

At least guards, metal detectors and bullet proof glass. Don’t banks have those things? Money in a vault is better protected than human life.

You'd rather these many people be potentially dead than potentially traumatized? If you're a student in the middle of a school shooting, chances are you're probably going to be traumatized anyway. And getting teachers proper firearm safety and training would avoid an "old west shootout."

Of course. But failing that... just lay down and cross your fingers? Really?

More effective to put a fence before the cliff, than keep an ambulance at the bottom of it.

Better,'em be traumatized, than dead.
Can't see how that can be even a question.

Don’t trained military still have things called friendly fire and collateral damage. I’m not super familiar with the terms. But I’d imaging in the heat of the moment Mr Smith the math teacher may not be on his A Game.

If I had to pick between those two things I would agree to pick trauma over death yes. However I would like to see a solution that avoids both.

Mr. Smith the math teacher better have had a good score in accuracy on last quarter's trip to the gun range or Mr. Smith won't be the math teacher anymore.

And better a small chance of friendly fire in putting the brakes on a 100% chance of as much not-so-friendly fire as the shooter feels like raining down anywhere in the school, at will, than no chance of survival at all.

Arming the teachers with guns is an interesting idea. Not sure if I agree with it or not. Don't have a solution myself to suggest.

I do wonder if that exacerbates the problem though, rather than stemming it at the root. Not to say that idea makes the issue worse, but I don't know if "guns + guns + guns" is the correct solution.

I'm not 100% sold on the idea that better healthcare and harder to access guns would stop this. These are things that should probably be done regardless though, so it's a good place to start.

Like, yeah. How is this not the obvious solution, at least for now.

Were school resource officers not a thing at y'all's schools? Police officers stationed on-site? When I was in high school I thought the officers and metal detectors were a bit Orwellian but they're considerably more preferable than more deaths.

And if Mr Smith the math teacher accidentally hits one of his kids while trying to combat an assailant, then he won't be a math teacher much longer either.

Better still, when the authorities DO arrive, Mr Smith will then have to worry about whether he's seen as an assailant.

All the police have to do is feel threatened.
And with that in mind, yeah, let's put more police in schools too.
Because nothing aids the learning environment more than treating your students like criminals from day one.

That's a whole other can of worms that deserves its own thread if we want to get into the use of excessive/lethal force by the police in unwarranted situations

Agreed, but...I thought it could use a bit of lipservice here with folks suggesting that having more authority around will automatically decrease violence in schools.

But we've already tried -- thoroughly -- having no authority... and look what happens, over and over again.

I completely agree, I just think it's a more sound idea to have people stationed at schools whose sole job is to ensure security and safety, rather than add another duty to the already overworked and underpaid teachers.

But yeah, then we get into the issue of police needing to police themselves, a whole "who watches the watchmen" type deal.

Dedicated, armed security guards would be something, at least.

I think there is a big difference between something like gated entrance to a school that has a security officer. Maybe a metal detector at the doors. And a police officer patrolling the halls looking for “suspicious thugs.” I don’t think anyone wants an armed hall monitor.

I don't believe this is at all true.

There's a lot that could be done to stop stuff like this, but...you'd have to be a SJW to suggest it, and people won't want to pay for it.
Of course, people don't want to pay for what they've already got, which in my home school district isn't enough money to pay for full time custodians.

I think the gunhappy people should start teaching.

As long as they're armed. Walkie talkies and tough talking won't cut it.

Seeing armed guards or armed teaches as a valid "solution" is as alien to me as a ****ing Lovecraftian elder gods in the flesh. Like holy ****, fix your issues with mental health, healthcare and proper gun regulation and teach some respect for lethal weapons, not pile more crap on students like trigger happy wannnabee-cops itching for "action".

Now I'm wondering why campus security isn't a common practice.

10-15 years ago, it may have seemed a little too "big brother", but in the current climate, it seems necessary.

We're Americans, we don't historically have a great sense of The Long Game.
SO long as it looks like it's working, it's working...regardless of actual efficacy.

I'll never forget the front page of the local news paper when airport security decided liquids weren't allowed through security: Big ol' picture of random security guard just dumping a bottle of clear liquid into a trashcan of presumably other liquids.
This should horrify anyone who's ever taken basic chemistry. You just don't randomly dispose of unknown reagents that way. It's dangerous.

But it looks good and efficient, so...they went with it.

My hometown school district had to lay off the entire custodial staff due to budget cuts, but people want armed security guards posted at the doors.

So true, I agree.

If it ever happened it would most likely be a separate federal funding source. Not really something that a school needs to figure out how to budget for. Last time I checked metal detectors only discriminate against metal. Bring all the mouth wash to school you want.

Whether arming teachers and other school staff is a feasible solution I do know that an overwhelming majority of these mass shooters when facing an equal force (i.e. someone with a gun) they are either shot by another armed person or they quickly shoot themselves. Of course this isn’t always the case but from what I’ve seen it seems to go this way more often than not.

I’m all for a law abiding citizen being able to protect themselves and their loved ones with the best means available. I would not have a problem with teachers that are well trained in firearms use protecting my kids at school. I would however prefer I be the one carrying the gun and watching over my kids but I can’t be with them every minute of every day.