The problem people seem to have with RotTMNT
 

... is like, mentally really they're treating it as if they're coming off season 1 (Fred Wolf), season 2 (4kids), and season 3 (2012 Nick) of some giant series of Breaking Bad and they're upset that season 4 (Rise of the TMNT) looks so very different than anything before it. And maybe it's systemic of "casual fans" but...

Stop doing that. If you're above the age of 30 you no longer have any vote in the latest children's cartoon. You don't. The last two seasons of the 2012 Nick show (in which Raph wasn't the "leader" and no one had magic weapons) tanked in the ratings (i.e., all these 30+ year old fans watching diligently did squat) so guess what... Nick is trying something new... for the next generation of little kids.

It's not a jab. It's reality. What else should they do? The same thing again? Throw good money after bad? Little kids are pretty simple. Number of little kids' TMNT cartoons made to float by it's devoted 30+ year old audience: 0. You don't matter. Hopefully you're along for the ride (is what I'm sure the company motto is) but if not, hey, you sure didn't save the last series so it's whatever.

Yeah, kind of hard to disagree with this. Kids cartoons are for kids first and foremost, so they're trying to appeal to them. Makes perfect sense.

Yeah man, you're right.

What kills me the most is that the same people bitching about this (casuals) are those who largely loved the Platinum Dune designs, which these are definitely similar to. You'd support those designs but not these? You've got your hulking du-rag Raph, lanky gear covered Donnie, etc. & these are even better by not having uncanny human facial features, 7 foot stature, nostrils, & that they're in 2D (as requested).

I'd say 30 is being generous when talking about who it's catered for. Yes it had to be different given it comes right after the last one. For some maybe they just don't like the look of the particular designs rather than there being a change. Just an opinion, sure mine won't count when it comes to Nick as you rightly said but I still like and dislike things, I liked their last designs, even though Nick didn't intend those for adults either.
So going on to children, my little one wasn't impressed with them either but again that isn't all kids, some will love it.

Regarding the other shows rating, it had gotten 5 seasons and as I said before, I do think Nicks airing had a hand in the ratings also, we finally got the Crossever arc in the UK this weekend, the last season 5 eps aired I think were back in August! Kids will loose interest. (though I get they may not be so interested in other countries)

Anyway, sorry to come off a bit, but on the subject of ratings, I've asked this before, does only watching Live TV count for ratings or has this been updated with on demand/DVR and internet?

Since there are no breaks lasting for years this time, it's still the same children who know the Nickelodeon series who will watch Rise of the TMNT.

I think my preference for the Platinum Dunes designs come from execution. Texture, color, clothing/gear choices. That said, I’m not invested in either product, just watching from afar and appreciating whatever elements do appeal to me.

I can not believe how many older fans are losing their minds over the designs. This is worse than the PD backlash.
Not liking them is one thing, but acting like it's the end of the world is another. It's just ridiculous.

I think Rise of the TMNT is gonna bring the fun back. FW was a fun show back in the days given the era that was on.

Even if this series will cater to a much younger demographic. they can poke fun at all the TMNT tropes that happened throughout all incarnations.

If Shredder, Krang, Bebop and Rocksteady show up. Do you think they will be similar to the FW counterparts, or to the Nick series counterparts?

Appealing to the "millenial geek" demographic has many pros but also plenty of cons. I do think most people complaining are adults who aren't the target audience which is actually more of the 6-10 demographic so even 14 year olds complaining online just doesn't matter. But there is a crossover between people not liking the designs.

But like I mentioned in the Rise thread, I showed a 10 year old the designs and he hated them and he's a fan of the current show. I also remember as a kid when shows had these "KEWL NEW LOOK" makeovers and I usually hated them and asked why they did it and sure enough all those revivals failed after one season.

What's annoying to me is that as an adult you can easily understand "Hey, we just finished a previous incarnation like 2 months ago which was more "classic TMNT, do I really want ANOTHER similar incarnation a year later?" "Wouldn't it be more fun to see something new?" "Am I really going to watch it even if it had been the perfect designs"?

But no in the age of social media everyone wants to spout out their opinion. I have no problem with dromers not liking the new show, if they're on a forum they're hardcore enough to share their opinions but casuals who read buzzfeed and other fake geek sites who are never going to watch it is just lame.

Also, if people like something do we really have to sh-t every thread about it? I can already see every new episode will be full of "ugh, this sucks" and not let the few who enjoy it discuss it. I mean, just look at all The Next Mutation threads, it's always mostly "ugh this show sucked" when some just want to discuss it. At least in the Last Jedi thread the negative comments were "I didn't like it because ____ and this causes _____" but most negative comments on TNM threads and in the upcoming Rise will be "This sucks" without adding anything of value to the discussion.

Nickelodeon
 

I recall a lot of people saying the first Nickelodeon series sucked back in late-2012 and early-2013. When it was cancelled, a lot of them probably missed it.

I'm waiting to see it in motion. If I don't like it, then I'll just forget about it and move on. Worked for me with Next Mutation, Fast Forward, and Back to the Sewers. It's not like I buy the toys or anything.

Same. If it's trash its other mans treasure.

FF had some good eps.

By straddling the line in the later seasons, they alienated the younger viewers, and the potential audience, like myself, wasn't paying attention anymore.
If Nick was more like the CW, the new series could have been rebooted to a whole new audience. It looks like Nick's only thinking about a toy-etic approach ( A word I've learned from the toy's that made us!)
I just caught up on seasons 3,4&5, and they're great, better than most comicbook stuff on TV. I need to find season 2 now.

I love though, that you're attacking the casuals. That's classic.
I'd also throw in that a better title for the op's thread might have read "note to self'.

Is it almost a little ominous that it can be shorted to RotTMNT? :ohwell:

Sorry, my problems with it our my own. No matter the demographic the creators are focusing on, it's not off limits for fans of the franchise as a whole to still have an opinion on the choices they're making. No one gets to be lord and master over whether or not people are "allowed" to have an opinion.

And if anyone insists on having a so-called "valid" kid-related reason, then no, I still don't care for things they are doing if this may end up being my nephew's intro to TMNT if they don't do the characters any justice and screw them up.

Granted he's 20-months-old, so if it's short lived then maybe not. (Considering his intro to it being the Halfshell Heroes special instead sooner or later. Given how kids get into wanting to watch the same thing a million times, I'm sure it would hold for a while.)

Fascinating. I used to rewatch more as a child, but I always thought it was a result of limited access. If I decided when I was a child one afternoon:

"–This afternoon, I will watch something, I was limited to TV (with much, much, much less channels in Sweden as in the USA at the time) and some videotapes. If I had been able to watch something I hadn't seen before instead, I would do it.

I agree that they should be targeting kids but most of us 30 year old fans have kids or Neices and Nephews that we watch with and buy the toys for. I am not against change but what confuses me is these look like rip offs of the failed recent movie turtles. Did nobody on creative think to say this didn’t work once why are we trying again?
I’m already not craY a out changes but I’m gonna give it a shot as I’ll be watching with my nephew who loved the 2012 most recent series but I don’t have high hopes.

The turtles, except Donatello, wielding magic weapons in Rise of the TMNT, may be the most drastic changes ever in TMNT history. Even bigger than when the MWS series began.

Not really. They did it in 4kids, & other iterations dabbled in it too.

The Ninja Tribunal was just temporary.

Yeah, but it still sets a precedent. My point is that it's not an entirely new concept for the TMNT.

I’m sure most grown up fans know they are not the main audience, but I don’t see why they (we) aren’t allowed to say what we think. Myself, I want the TMNT to be a up there with the best of DC and Marvel. For that to happen, it needs to keep building a fan base.

I don’t mind the premise of the show, but I believe the art style will turn off just as many youngsters as us old guys. To me, this is the cartoon equivalent to those terrible Mark Martin comics. But I’ll gladly be proven wrong.

Easy solutions... the kids get one show on Nickelodeon and the adults finally get a live action/CGI action series based on the IDW comics on Netflix. Problem solved. :tgrin:

That would be awesome. But not gonna lie, I'd watch both. Can't get enough TMNT.

Based on IDW would be spectacular!

Here's another idea.
Have a Casey Jones spinoff series on Netflix. To expand the TMNT universe lore a bit, when you take the Focus off the Turtles, Splinter and Shredder.

Could be about Casey vs the Purple Dragons.
We could have another one about Bishop.
Or even a Karai Netflix series!

There's only enough times you can tell the Turtles origin stories in a single decade.. so moving to other character would be great to bring attention to the franchise.

I honestly would not watch a spin-off that the Turtles aren't a big part of...

As it is, when I come across portions of TMNT comics online it tends to bore me if too much is focusing on other characters. I like TMNT for mah Turtles.

Definitely agree and wish for a second, simultaneous series for older audiences though. (I could be willing to pay for Netflix in that case.) And how many times do I have to suggest and ask of the world to make the Turtles a bit older and just continue their story/lives rather than reboot endlessly. There is practically a whole blank slate for the most part with tons of open space for all new places and adventures to take them in life as young adults. Why are makers too afraid to embrace this. Put good writers, etc at the helm who can do them justice and there is little to fear. Do it well enough and you may even pull in people who hadn't been paying TMNT much attention before and they get hooked simply on a good show; whether or not it pushes them to check out other stuff.

Speaking of IDW, it's been going on for 7 years now. How likely is it that it'll influence Rise in some way?

I'm on board with this idea. :D

Main problem is at our age, we shouldn't care. Let the kids have their show and when they get older they can research older versions if they want.

We're supposed to be kinda like 'oh, a new tmnt cartoon. Neat. I remember watching them as a kid' and carry on with our adult lives.

I'll always like my 80s collection, read IDW, probably play the games and watch future live action movies, but other than watching the first ep or 2 of Rise, I'm jumping out of the Cubed Train and switching to Casual Lane.

I love the turtles, I'll always will, but I'm not gonna be like 60 and arguing about why Don's mask is the wrong shade of purple in the 10th version of the series.

I don't understand this way of thinking. Many adults watch cartoons and always will. While it's true all shows are aimed at new kids first and foremost, they also know they'll have an adult following due to the brand.

It's the same thing with Star Wars and any other franchise that spanned generations. It's aimed at both new kids and adult fans.

I would argue that Star Wars is more all ages with kids in mind for toys than things like kids cartoons.
As you pointed out with a franchise like this you'll have fans from various ages.

I don't think I personally know any adults who watch kids shows unless through their children (or have not said they do anyway,) but obviously yes a some do, look at the net.

But they don't devote their lives to it, or defend it to the high heavens when they come across a casual or someone with differing opinion.

Tastes change man. I find much more excitement in seeing the Black Panther movie or how Dragonball Super will end rather than another episode of the turtles, even if Nick didn't end and they had a 6th season.

I know a lot of adults who watch cartoons, but yeah...if it's something that just suddenly stops appealing to them, they just stop watching.

And depending on how fanatical they are, they might retreat into fanfic should the itch for that particular property need scratching.

Which account for maybe about 0.5% of their ratings and 5% of toy sales. These cartoons are made or broken by whether or not the latest generation of millions of little kids care, not 30 or 40 year-olds. If they can squeeze in some adult stuff (and they will, because the people working on these are 30, 40 year-olds who were Turtle fans once) great, but that wouldn't remotely be a focus or even a required bullet point.

As I was walking around a Toys R' Us closing sale this weekend, I was curious about how a nationwide decline in sales of traditional "toys" and action figures might impact the future of children's cartoons.

BTW, that 16" combining Voltron set is mighty sweet!

Dragonball Super is aimed at kids too, along with adult fans. The entire relaunch of Dragonball since Kai came out was made to refresh that franchise for a new younger generation of kids. And if you think most fans never obsess over Dragonball, you've obviously never been to kazenshuu or any other major Dragonball community. They're having mental breakdowns over power levels debates in Super and all the lore changes from DBZ, like how 17 can somehow be so strong or Roshi, or we now have 3 new Super Saiyan forms. It's the same for any franchise.

Sure. But as said, the people writing the stuff now were the once fans. It's the same thing as modern Star Wars, all the modern stuff is now written by the original fans who grew up with the original stuff, hence the "published fanfiction" feel every new thing has.

All the 30-40 year olds in Hollywood today were all the kids from the 80's or 90's grown up, and now they're essentially taking all the big franchises they grew up with and making them their own. It's the same thing as the way people made stories playing with their TMNT or Star Wars action figures when they were 8 years old, or making their edgy fanfiction when they were teenagers, now they can make all that stuff a reality.

I don't go to those forums so that idiocy escapes me. I just watch what I watch and fanbase be damned.

Sure I'll play the tmnt whenever I get Injustice 2 but I'm jumping ship at Rise. I honestly don't have time to tune in or will go out of my way to see.

I consider DBZ and anime in general as a different thing. Even if it's aimed at kids most amime handle topics and themes that American kids would either find boring or not have the patience for.

But not the people at the TOP, top, the ones actually funding these things and employing those writers. Their hard line is always going to be "How do we reel in the maximum number of little tykes?" And if ever the writers' wishes in any way compromise that, even potentially, the writers are going to lose and be sticky-noted into submission.

For example, I'm certain Ciro only got to do about 20% of what he actually wanted to in the Nick cartoon for this very reason.

Well, I can't see arguing things to that extent, but even at 60 I hope I at least still include the fun stuff in life that I still love, and not only boring "adult" things. Having TMNT to debate (said debate doesn't always have to be serious) kind of helps counter balance the common "adult" debate topics like politics and personal finances... ew. :)

People were freaking out before 2012 started too, once the show comes out I'm sure there will just be those who love it and those who are indifferent to it.

I love what Rise is going to do but come on, I don't blame people not liking it since it reeks of executives/playmates trying too hard to sell toys and appeal to kids, this is no different than The Next Mutation or the countless of revivals we've gotten in the past to bring new blood into the franchise.

Same as the Red Sky season or Fast Forward and even The Next Mutation, only difference here is they made a new show instead of completely changing the 2012 show but the results are going to be the same. Remember He-Man in Space from The New Adventures of He-Man? Or CG Voltron 3D copying Power Rangers?

I thought the designs looked awful, like those "let's make it realistic" fan art we see but in motion it looks amazing, I would kill for a movie that had the turtles like that.
Counting his horror fetish, it's probably a good thing.

Executive meddling in shows can sometimes be a good thing, a nice balance usually gives the best results.