Study shows most Cis People Won't Date Trans People.
 

It's infuriating to see just how backwards the cis world is, even in 2018.
If a cis-woman gets a boob job, guys are all okay with it.
What does gender at birth have to do with anything.

https://www.them.us/story/cis-trans-dating

Where do you stand?

I love coconuts.

Exactly. You can't find love among your own species, so you turned to fruit.
People shouldn't set boundaries. Why close yourself off.

Does your nut have a name?

https://i.gifer.com/SYq2.gif

In before someone turns it weird...


The world is a cruel, unfair place. Things will surely change, but change is slow. (Is it a reasonable factor that some cis people might want to be able to have biological children with their partner?)

There are so many ways to have children today. My Friend has two girls with his husband. They used a surrogate both times for the egg, and alternated sperm donation.

I don't know that it's important to have children who share your DNA. A child is a child, and family is family.

Sure, it doesn't make someone's child any less their child, but is it now wrong for some to want their kid to ideally be genetically related to both parents and to go through having a kid together in the typical fashion?

Nothing wrong with wanting that, but it might be worth noting that about 40 to 50 percent of married couples in the United States divorce. Perhaps excluding 50% of the population from ones mating pool could be hamstringing the possibility of longer lasting, happier unions.


"Virtually all heterosexuals excluded trans folks from their dating pool: only 1.8% of straight women and 3.3% of straight men chose a trans person of either binary gender. But most non-heterosexuals weren’t down for dating a trans person either, with only 11.5% of gay men and 29% of lesbians being trans-inclusive in their dating preferences. Bisexual/queer/nonbinary participants (these were all combined into one group) were most open to having a trans partner, but even among them, almost half (48%) did not select either ‘trans man’ or ‘trans woman.’

Of the seven participants who themselves identified as transgender or nonbinary, 89% were willing to date another trans person."

Even Trans people excluded other Trans people.

Wow, we suck.

Are you saying people aren't supposed to have a choice anymore of who they date, or what?

I'm not sure where you're going with this.

At the risk of gross... most dudes don't want to make 100% of their input a hairy butthole. Or see a dick and balls dangling around while they're doing their business. Probably. Not all of them, but probably more than the lion's share. And that seems fair to me. They like genuine born women who have no... confusion. That's just the way most dudes are wired.

Most people want to have sex with people who have genuine working sex organs and want to have their own children.
Also, very few want to deal with emotional baggage transpeople have.

TL;DR: People want to have sex and families with normal people, with normal bodies.

Actually, yes, he is.
This is a relatively new thing with transcult: some of them (not all, at least not now), consider people who don't want to have sex with transpeople, to be transphobic, including Homosexuals, because, they dare "to be attracted to genitalia".
Apparently in their narcissism and self-entitlement some transpeople completely miss idea of sexuality and freedom to choose your own partner.

You should have seen amount of death and rape threats and abuse received by Lesbians who not only dare to say that dick is not a female organ (which of course it's not for any sane person), but also dare to not hop on the those "delicious" "female" dicks and not consider people with artificial vaginas (i.e. wounds that need to be cleaned) to be a genuine women and Lesbians (which trans women are not).

It's another prove how previously oppressed group, led by males, become oppressors and bullies when given sufficient power and can get away with spouting homophobic and misogynistic stuff, protecting themselves with "muh suffering give me rights to **** others" and "I am gonna kill myself if you don't do things my way".

:ohwell:

That was kind of my next question, what the ratio for trans people themselves is. Does a typical trans man and trans woman find each other appealing on average, or do they also tend to favor a cis partner?



Perhaps not a coincidence those two demographics are lower percentage than their counterpart when it comes to what they want in a partner... I mean, not to be rude or anything. Kind of telling that lesbians are the highest percentage. Just... how do I non offensively say that, well, you know...the lady bits might be able to be sculpted and implanted, but I imagine part of the man bits might be limited in what's possible...?

I mean, I've got nothing against trans people and I wish them all happiness with someone who loves and accepts them for who they are. But people love who they love and I think this is one of those things that needs to be personal and on a case by case basis between two people. If two people click and love enough other enough to overlook things like this (or anything else for that matter), awesome for them. It's kind of hard to do a cold clinical poll like that when it's based on judging a potential unknown suggested partner responders have no feeling for, rather than answering based on actual experience. Which is maybe what they should do... poll cis people who have dated or considered dating someone who turned out to be trans, or at least knows one enough to be acquainted with the idea.


I kind of assumed we had to be talking post-op, because yeah... pre-op is certainly going to be an issue with the majority.

Andrew wanted to make it sound as un appealing as possible, of course. Cis sex can be just as revolting, from a certain vantage point. We can get gross, but Hetero is always romanticized, 'cause 7.5 billion just a'int enough. I get that, it's a common cis thing, to debase and vilify something because it scares you, and to try and use disgust to paint a damning picture.

He does not imagine the possibility of loving someone for who they are, he is caught up in the exterior.

Okay having read the primary source (huzzah for one of the benefits of graduate school!), goodness that's a really small sample size, and event he authors admit they had no hypothesis. This was small correlation finding from a larger study.

A, Huh...that's interesting, and nothing more.

There's nothing inherently bigoted about not being attracted by vulvas, just as there's nothing inherently bigoted about not being attracted by penises.

But there is something interesting in delving deeper into WHY we are/aren't attracted by things.

For instance, there are straight men in straight relationships who find themselves no longer attracted to their breast cancer surviving spouses.
Because breasts are that ingrained into the the groove of their sexual identity.

It's just interesting.

From some statistics it seems most trans people do not want to date trans people either. I guess, they want to have partners with genuine working sex organs and with less psychological problems.
Funny how they demand everyone else to have sex with themselves. :lol:

Nothing scares anyone about you.
People just have right for their own preferences and saying "NO" no matter their reasoning and they hate when someone is trying to coerce to have sex with someone who they don't find attractive. It's normal.

It's not a defect. It's not hatred. It's goddamn right of any free human being to say "I DO NOT WANT TO HAVE SEX with you". And you MUST respect it.
Any attempts to blackmail anyone to have sex with you, by threatening suicide or self-harm will be useless and out you as a self-entitled narcissist who don't care about anyone else but yourself.
And if you don't respect people's autonomy, but demand respect for yourself, than, in my book, you can go away with your pity party. And your lame attempts to coerce other people to have sex with you to validate your identity and mental fantasies are sexism and homophobia.

Yeah, sexual orientation totally not a thing, no sir. It's just some weird phobia which exists solely to offend poor trans people.
And Lesbians and Gay are, of course, the worst offenders. How dare they being attracted to biological sex and not your wonderful totally genuine [insert gender here] identity? :ohwell:

And women stop being attracted to men, who loses their penises for whatever reason.
Imagine that: sexual drive working differently for different people.
It's normal because sexual attraction is a normal thing to have when you are in relationship. I hope, it's obvious for everyone.

And it has nothing to do with sexism or misogyny. Just with the human nature and what people find sexually attractive, which is coded into genes, much like sexual orientation. I know for more...progressively-minded people it's hard to figure it out that some things are out of cultural control, due to their mantra "everything is political" and due to their inability to understand how normal people work, but it is...a reality.

This

Doesn't jive with this
Just saying.

I think so, but it's also clear that there will be winners and losers, and it seems to have a hierarchy attached, at least according to the study.
I think there was a similar article that examined the problem of Grinder V Tinder V blackpeoplemeet V Jdate, but I forget where I read it.
Effectively the piece suggested that it's not fair to split the dating pool at all, and yet it still happens, despite being a racist/bigoted idea.

Then there's incels, and that whole thing - though to be honest, I have zero interest in supporting a bunch of men who can't get there **** together enough to be attractive to anyone.

Actually it does.

Most people have underlying understanding of biological sex of other people, even outside of cultural codes. Thus, people who have no Homosexual desires won't be attracted to trans people.
Lack of desire to deal with mental and biological state of trans people is another aspect of it.

I'm sharing a study that resulted in conversation worthy results. It has implications for the entire gender spectrum. You're slinging insults, again.

You agree not everyone shares the same desires, but then follow up with the implication that Trans people are mentally ill. Weren't you banned for this type of behavior once before?

There is no gender spectrum, since it's artificial construct, and there is no "cis". Normal people don't need prefix to validate someone else having prefix.

And yes, "inner feeling" that urges oneself to butcher their body seems like a mental illness, not different from any other form of self-mutilation.

And, no, I wasn't banned for that.

Well excuse me for having a preference.

Op I would take that article with a grain of salt. I did not see a link to the actual study which makes me question the internal validity of the study and 95 people is a very, very small sample size to pull from.

There's a link in the text, but the journal is behind a paywall.
If you want to read it I can get your a .pdf.

Even post-op. I think most dudes would like to f*** literally an inverted penis even less than a hairy butthole.

Are you this disgusting when you talk to Sophie Campbell, or are you just gunning to close this thread?

This thread was doomed to the fiery pits of hell before you even thought of it.

I am a cis man who will date only cis women. Sue me.

What? I am just saying what most dudes would (or wouldn't) do. This is a fact supported by data. Will this change in 5, 10, 20 years? Maybe. Probably. There are many dudes right now more than willing and eager to have sex with pre-op and post-op transsexuals as they would with genetic women and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, nor do I think in any way their man card should be revoked if they do... I'm just pointing out that this is a comparatively and statistically very small number, as well as the brutally honest reasons as to why this is right now.

And then there's the whole having kids thing. While genetic women that can't have kids or women who think they can have kids, marry, and it turns out they can't is very much a real thing, and sad for all parties... beyond "sowing your oats" days for dudes (i.e., let's have a lot of sex without commitment) or dudes who (probably very wisely) have determined kids or more kids aren't for them... this is a huge deal. It's a completely understandable deal breaker. With a transexual woman... you know from the gate that is impossible. We can talk about "Well, what about adoption, you insensitive assclown??" and that's probably a viable alternative for a small percentage of dudes... but most just want to have their own kids. And I don't think that's strange or in any way weird, certainly not a thing that should be shunned. Conversely, I think it is weird that there is a movement to make that seem weird. Beyond the societal level, even on a genetic, our ingrained purpose to exist is to procreate. It's there. It's always going to be there.

Thanks for finally taking the topic seriously. That's all I wanted.

I think most of the arguments really come down to feeling anything beyond hetero relationships are "morally wrong". I also think, this generation is heavily invested in changing that perception. Yeah, in a few years, I can see people being far more open.

I know there's a lot of defense from folks who have the same point of view as Sumac, or Fredwolfleonardo; they have moral issues with the idea that they can't unlearn. I get that, but i think it's something that can be unlearned.

Not to say that people should change their personal preferences, only that, this knee jerk reaction to the topic is clearly defensive and fear based. It shouldn't be.

There's too much unhappiness in the world already.

I can appreciate that. Your initial post seemed fueled with vitriol... even outrage. You began with "what does your born gender have to do with anything" and my points were... "a lot." For a variety of reasons, almost all of them completely understandable.

Everything I've ever stood for is people can and should do whatever they want as long as it isn't hurting anybody else. A hundredfold to the contrary if it's hurting a child. Beyond that? Hey, have fun. Not going to judge or belittle beyond disagreements on facts (the recent deal about "my truth" vs. your truth vs.... the actual truth) or when movements make dudes like me seem the bad guy for understanding simple truths in the day to day.

I don't see any relationships as morally wrong. I think that most people don't care about morality, but more about practicality and healthiness of the relationships.

I won't unlearn that, because, my issues with this topic has nothing to do with morality.
If you carefully read my posts, than you could figure it out.

Yes, it's defensive, because, it's coercion for sex, no, it has nothing to do with fear, because, there is nothing to fear.

And you bring even more unhappiness by denying people their sexual preferences. Good work!!

If there's one thing the work of Kinsey has taught us, it's that most people are dishonest when answering survey questions regarding their sexual habits. the only way he got people to open up about it was to have a very rigorous anonymizing technique for Gathering data.

It's how culturally and religiously conservative States like Utah can consume more pornography than any other state in the Union.

There are many self-identified cis heterosexual men out there who seek the company of trans woman sex workers, regardless of whether or not those women have sought out gender confirmation bottom surgery.

It takes all kinds to make a world.

Oh, I’ve gotten reports all right, but thus far the discussion has remained mostly civil, in spite of some “inciting” posts. I like this topic, it’s doing what a controversial topic *should* do: allow everyone to express and explain their viewpoint, regardless of how polarizing some views are.

That was the whole point of the Volcanic Asteroid, yet we all saw what happened there.

If it gets personal or derails, then it’s off to the Disintegrator.

Thanks for giving it a chance. I think some discussions can get heated - but maybe that's how you get to a mutual respect and understanding.

I was irritated by the comment that Trans means mental illness, it's an ignorant thing to say - and I can't respect that opinion, but I won't pursue an argument, as it seems a bit bait-ish.

If someone needs a "bottom confirmation surgery to be a "woman"", than it is not a woman.
Also, I hardly can imagine men en masse seeking company of trans women, when they can just date normal women.

"I am feeling like a woman", "I am feeling like a Napoleon", "I am feeling like a president of the universe".

Yeah sure, I am wondering if the article tried to slant the results a certain way. I just want to look at the pretty numbers :lol:

It would be awesome if you could send me .pdf as well Plastron.
Thank you.

Sure thing!
Keep your eyes peeled on your email inboxes, and let me know if that didn't work.

I'd like a look at that, too, if it's not too much trouble. I do fully understand Andrew's point here, and agree with it for the most part. I also would like to say that his "if it doesn't hurt anyone, do what you want" attitude is to be applauded, as it is very much what I believe as a Wiccan as well. In fact it's the prime tenet.

That said, I think that the ingrained desire to gravitate toward the genetic opposite gender IS a huge part of the reason for those stats, but at the same time, social norms are changing, so those numbers might change in a decade or two once the stigma of being trans begins to disappear, much like the stigma of being gay or bi has been doing. Nature is NOT black and white, as some might naievely believe, and there are literally hundreds of permutations of what is "normal" within any given species. And there is a thing called evolution which tends to alter those species norms over time. It's why certain moths changed colors over time to adapt to changes in the environment brought about by humans, even within the last two centuries.

As hard as it is for some to grasp, being genetically one or the other is NOT the only option. It is simply the most common denomiinator in the equation.

Most "trans people" really don't look convincing enough to make a straight person want to date them.

What's interesting to me lately is that lot of articles and stuff I'm seeing coming out, "sexual reassignment surgery"/"SRS" has almost entirely been removed from popular vernacular anywhere on the internet. It's just not said anymore. It's suddenly now, "Bottom Confirmation Surgery." For motivations that seem pretty obvious.

Liberals are doing their "we need to control the language" thing. Divorced from science.