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-   -   TMNT #87 Preview and Discussion (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=60587)

bushido 10-12-2018 06:04 AM
TMNT #87 Preview and Discussion
 
Preview here.

Igglet 10-12-2018 07:39 AM
Good Lord, Ch'rell is an absolute badass in this.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy 10-12-2018 10:14 AM
I like the Cylon mohawk on Chrell's exosuit. :tlol:

ChosenOne 10-12-2018 10:18 AM
He's been in the story for all of 3-4 pages and Ch'rell is already overshadowing Bishop. This should be fun!

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy 10-12-2018 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChosenOne (Post 1779837)
He's been in the story for all of 3-4 pages and Ch'rell is already overshadowing Bishop. This should be fun!
Well, Bishop hasn't had a chance to come out and play yet. As soon as his hands get dirty, though... :tevil:

Igglet 10-12-2018 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy (Post 1779841)
Well, Bishop hasn't had a chance to come out and play yet. As soon as his hands get dirty, though... :tevil:
He did absolutely wreck the Mutanimals in what was, in my opinion, one of the coolest moments in IDW TMNT. Though I guess he was using Slash and his lackeys to do that. We still haven't seen him actually get his hands dirty. But from the previews we've gotten for #87 and #88, it looks like that's about to change.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy 10-12-2018 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igglet (Post 1779843)
He did absolutely wreck the Mutanimals in what was, in my opinion, one of the coolest moments in IDW TMNT. Though I guess he was using Slash and his lackeys to do that. We still haven't seen him actually get his hands dirty. But from the previews we've gotten for #87 and #88, it looks like that's about to change.
He did a pretty great job of kicking Ray's ass without using a mutant mind-slave. Just his own two flesh-and-blood... er, his own two hands? :tlol:

ChosenOne 10-12-2018 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy (Post 1779847)
He did a pretty great job of kicking Ray's ass without using a mutant mind-slave. Just his own two flesh-and-blood... er, his own two hands? :tlol:
Besting Ray is a far cry from besting all four Turtles at once, though. I'd like to see him kick as much ass as his 2003 cartoon counterpart, but we'll see how he does... So far I'm not very impressed.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy 10-12-2018 11:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChosenOne (Post 1779849)
Besting Ray is a far cry from besting all four Turtles at once, though. I'd like to see him kick as much ass as his 2003 cartoon counterpart, but we'll see how he does... So far I'm not very impressed.
Yeah, I think we'll see that in these next two issues.

I was just pointing out, Bishop has gotten his own hands dirty already.

ChosenOne 10-12-2018 11:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy (Post 1779850)
Yeah, I think we'll see that in these next two issues.

I was just pointing out, Bishop has gotten his own hands dirty already.
Yep, indeed he has. But any of the current Mutanimals (sans Slash, obviously) is a "safe" opponent for one such as Bishop considering what we've seen of him so far. He's yet to go up against anyone who could pose a real challenge, and then his willingness to get his hands dirty might change drastically.

CyberCubed 10-12-2018 02:48 PM
In just those 3 pages I'm already far more interested in IDW's Ch'rell than I thought. I thought he might have felt too much like a rehash of Krang in this version (since IDW's Krang was serious and not silly), but Ch'rell seems just different enough so far not to feel like a re-tread.

As said I don't think Ch'rell can become Shredder in this incarnation, especially with the knowledge Shredder is coming back to life, so I do hope Ch'rell continues to go down a different path than feeling like Krang 2.0. So far in these 3 pages he seems very interesting and pissed, and he will most likely turn on the Utroms in the next story arc.

ChosenOne 10-12-2018 04:05 PM
Can you imagine what it would've been like if Krang and Ch'rell had both been active at the same time? :o Every single effort made against them would've failed. Even if the Turtles and the Foot legit teamed up, there's just no way to overcome the two of them at once, with their mindset and firepower.

Actually, could we maybe get a What If?-style one-shot out of that concept, IDW?

Igglet 10-12-2018 04:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChosenOne (Post 1779890)
Can you imagine what it would've been like if Krang and Ch'rell had both been active at the same time? :o Every single effort made against them would've failed. Even if the Turtles and the Foot legit teamed up, there's just no way to overcome the two of them at once, with their mindset and firepower.

Actually, could we maybe get a What If?-style one-shot out of that concept, IDW?
I'm not so sure. Ch'rell's a great strategist but he's just one man, or, well, Utrom. If the Foot and the Turtles teamed up, they'd still be way too outgunned.

ChosenOne 10-12-2018 04:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igglet (Post 1779894)
I'm not so sure. Ch'rell's a great strategist but he's just one man, or, well, Utrom. If the Foot and the Turtles teamed up, they'd still be way too outgunned.
The Foot would've been wiped out in the Burnow battle if it hadn't been for the Turtles forcing Krang to retreat and then defeating him "behind the scenes". If you add another Utrom in a battle suit to guard the Technodrome, they'd all be dead. Don't forget Krang had an army of his own. Bebop and Rocksteady might tip the scales, but they wouldn't have been enough to keep the Technodrome from being activated, and then it's game over for Earth. The only one who could possibly constitute a spanner in the works was Stockman, but even then we saw how swiftly and easily Krang dealt with his betrayal.

Igglet 10-12-2018 04:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChosenOne (Post 1779896)
The Foot would've been wiped out in the Burnow battle if it hadn't been for the Turtles forcing Krang to retreat and then defeating him "behind the scenes". If you add another Utrom in a battle suit to guard the Technodrome, they'd all be dead. Don't forget Krang had an army of his own. Bebop and Rocksteady might tip the scales, but they wouldn't have been enough to keep the Technodrome from being activated, and then it's game over for Earth. The only one who could possibly constitute a spanner in the works was Stockman, but even then we saw how swiftly and easily Krang dealt with his betrayal.
The thing is, the reason why the Foot would've been wiped out in the Burnow battle was because the Turtles betrayed them. If Ch'rell was out and kicking, then you could certainly bet they would've taken a different approach.

ChosenOne 10-12-2018 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igglet (Post 1779902)
The thing is, the reason why the Foot would've been wiped out in the Burnow battle was because the Turtles betrayed them. If Ch'rell was out and kicking, then you could certainly bet they would've taken a different approach.
But each side still only had the forces they had. Infiltration wouldn't work, an Utrom isn't exactly a prime assassination target... They're all ninjas, so even if they allied for real, they would probably bank on a diversion all the same while the real attack comes from elsewhere, only this time there's no one to divert because one Utrom goes out to the front lines (wherever and however those take place) and the other stays behind to make sure everything goes smoothly with the Technodrome. There aren't that many options on how to approach the situation, nor did they have that much time to consider them.

Assuming everything happens mostly the same, with the exception of Ch'rell being there, the Hamato-Foot alliance is toast. Bebop and Rocksteady making too big a dent in Krang's forces? He sets Leatherhead free to stall them. Once the terraforming process begins, none of them can do anything about it anyway... I just don't see how it could work in the good guys' favor, which is half the fun in these kinds of stories.

Utrommaniac 10-12-2018 05:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChosenOne (Post 1779890)
Can you imagine what it would've been like if Krang and Ch'rell had both been active at the same time? :o Every single effort made against them would've failed. Even if the Turtles and the Foot legit teamed up, there's just no way to overcome the two of them at once, with their mindset and firepower.

Actually, could we maybe get a What If?-style one-shot out of that concept, IDW?
Oh man, I think they could have taken over the Earth long before the turtles even had a chance to exist.

But in the case that they did exist while they were operating together...it means that when Krang was on Neutrino, someone would have been staying behind on Burnow Island to protect the Utroms. Karai might not have been able to get the Ooze because Ch'rell was there.

Maybe when the invasion on Burnow happens, Ch'rell goes to stop Stockman and Honeycutt from shutting down the Technodrome, so Krang would be able to kill Shredder; and if he's in that absolute monster of a suit, the turtles might have some trouble taking him down.



The thing I think about is what if it was Ma'riell who stayed out of stasis.

Igglet 10-12-2018 05:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChosenOne (Post 1779906)
But each side still only had the forces they had. Infiltration wouldn't work, an Utrom isn't exactly a prime assassination target... They're all ninjas, so even if they allied for real, they would probably bank on a diversion all the same while the real attack comes from elsewhere, only this time there's no one to divert because one Utrom goes out to the front lines (wherever and however those take place) and the other stays behind to make sure everything goes smoothly with the Technodrome. There aren't that many options on how to approach the situation, nor did they have that much time to consider them.

Assuming everything happens mostly the same, with the exception of Ch'rell being there, the Hamato-Foot alliance is toast. Bebop and Rocksteady making too big a dent in Krang's forces? He sets Leatherhead free to stall them. Once the terraforming process begins, none of them can do anything about it anyway... I just don't see how it could work in the good guys' favor, which is half the fun in these kinds of stories.
Honestly, I'd say there's too many wildcards for us to tell. Would Clan Hamato and Foot Clan manage to work together successfully? Would Bebop and Rocksteady actually manage to make a dent in Krang's forces? Would Leatherhead turn against his captors? And then, of course, there's lots of convenient things that would certainly happen to turn the tides of battle.

It would certainly be an interesting battle.

ChosenOne 10-12-2018 05:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utrommaniac (Post 1779909)
The thing I think about is what if it was Ma'riell who stayed out of stasis.
Ma'riell screws Krang over to save the Earthlings, Ch'rell helps him slaughter them for the sake of New Utrominon. Funny how things work out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Igglet (Post 1779911)
Honestly, I'd say there's too many wildcards for us to tell. Would Clan Hamato and Foot Clan manage to work together successfully? Would Bebop and Rocksteady actually manage to make a dent in Krang's forces? Would Leatherhead turn against his captors? And then, of course, there's lots of convenient things that would certainly happen to turn the tides of battle.

It would certainly be an interesting battle.
I assume both Clans could certainly turn a temporary blind eye to their feud, considering what would be a stake, but it wouldn't 100% tension free. At least before they hit the field. Bebop and Rocksteady are their usual brand of chaos, they could certainly harm Krang's forces quite a bit, but the thing with Leatherhead is, he's guaranteed to turn on pretty much anyone. In my scenario, he'd just be set free without ever knowing why or who did it, and the first people he'd come across are the invading forces. There would probably be some words exchanged with B&R before he decides to pounce on them for whatever reason. Not exactly the most friendly of mutants, that one. And yeah, plenty of convenient ways and last minute trump cards. You'll notice I left out the Mutanimals, for instance... Maybe even Kitsune could intervene in the ninja alliance's favor... It would be interesting for sure!

Damn you, IDW, for putting out such a rich comic! :D

Utrommaniac 10-12-2018 05:24 PM
Given Krang's mental state during the Utrom Empire mini, I actually think Krang would have taken advise from Ma'riell.

He originally intended to take over Earth using mutants, then changed his mind to the Technodrome.

Since Ma'riell was disappointed he had ended up like Quanin in the end, I think she may have been level-headed enough to convince him to find another way. Maybe she could have been able to manage both of them, just barely.


I think a large part of Krang's decision making was because there was no one he respected enough to reign him in. Ma'riell and Lorqa would have fit the bill (but Lorqa was probably a bit too old to have been an advisor and may not have lasted the full duration of the others in stasis).
Of course he would also have respected Ch'rell, but he would not have reigned him in.





I just realized this was the preview for the next issue! So I'm just gonna...
Wow, Ch'rell is processing everything a little better than I thought. Still pretty p*ssed off, but granted, with everything that's happened, it's better to take them at bits at a time by level of importance.

Utrommaniac 10-17-2018 02:21 AM
Spoiler:
Well, Ch'rell only ended up bookending the issue, but boy did he close it on a line worthy of an 80's action flick :lol: . Amazing.
He can take down tanks!

So cool that Don is actually on the island for the Big Fight this time.

The start of Bishop's backstory here is just barely qualifying for Loss.JPG :teek: . With implied 60's Cesarean...I'm surprised Mrs. Bishop is even able to sit up, considering how massive those kind of surgeries were during that time.

Now, some here may think I might be wigged out by the Utrom autopsy, but I'm more crying out "give me the forbidden anatomy!"
It's a start to how they manage to fit everything in with their weird body shape, but they're probably not going to say too much that doesn't involve how it's going to fit into Bishop's exosuit creation. From the way things are going...he's probably going to end up a little more human-cyborg. I think eventually someone's going to realize that Bishop is basically just bastardized Utrom tech and will be able to bring him down from there. But...where did they get the exo-suit from? Was it inside the ship?

But wow, Bishop Sr, "We'll have a prototype of an exo-suit soon" is not the same as "We have one now". Yeah, the baby is dying, but basically kidnapping him before your guys have anything substantial would have been a really dumb move if it didn't work out in the end. At least we know now that he was born human. From there, things are probably going to get really weird...and really sad.
(It's already pretty sad though, considering everything Bishop's did to save him from a very early death, only to be turned on in the worst way. An addendum to that, pretty messed up that if there's a certainty the baby won't survive the night, that the hospital isn't ensuring at least a little time for the family to be together...then again, that does seem like a 1968 thing to do.)

The stuff with the turtles and Mutanimals seemed to be business as usual; Bishop pretty much took back his spotlight. But, if we're getting City At War later on, it'll probably be a while before we see Ch'rell again. Maybe.

Igglet 10-17-2018 07:56 AM
The issue had some cool moments, not really blown away by Bishop's backstory yet but I like what he's been doing nonetheless. Ch'rell stole the spotlight for me easily, there were some cool moments but overall I'm really just waiting for something big to happen. VERY excited for the Michelangelo Macro and #88

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy 10-17-2018 09:21 AM
I wonder what Sally's secret mission is...? Last some mutants were left behind on a secret mission, Donatello got cracked open like a pinata. :teek:

ChosenOne 10-17-2018 10:26 AM
Gotta admit, I was a bit underwhelmed by this issue. Feels like we've seen the best bits in the preview already, and Bishop's backstory is still murky to me.

#88 really will have to pack a lot of stuff in to close out this arc...

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy 10-17-2018 10:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChosenOne (Post 1780387)
Gotta admit, I was a bit underwhelmed by this issue. Feels like we've seen the best bits in the preview already, and Bishop's backstory is still murky to me.

#88 really will have to pack a lot of stuff in to close out this arc...
That's kinda how IDW does these things. Great overarching premise, first issues are a little slow... then BAM! Wrap that crap up! BOOM! :trazz:

I liked it. Though Bishop was kinda... not as badass as I was hoping for. Like you, I really wanted to see the IDW equivalent of Bishop versus Karai, Hun, and all four Turtles. This wasn't it.

ChosenOne 10-17-2018 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy (Post 1780388)
I liked it. Though Bishop was kinda... not as badass as I was hoping for. Like you, I really wanted to see the IDW equivalent of Bishop versus Karai, Hun, and all four Turtles. This wasn't it.
The moment he needed to be in charge of Slash to be more useful in the battlefield than your average grunt, we should've known that wouldn't be the case. 2003 Bishop would've gladly included Slash in his list of ass-kicking party guests along with every other single named character in that battlefield. Him taking down Ray isn't that impressive of a feat. I'm sure he can solo one Turtle, but not all four.

Can't wait to see how the first encounter between the Turtles and Ch'rell goes!

Powder 10-17-2018 11:22 AM
Maybe I'm off base here but the implications of the flashback are pretty freakn' insane.

For starters, that blonde, was it Ravenwood? Sure looked like it. Could it be they used Utrom DNA to alter her genetic structure? She sorta has tentacles, after all. Yowza!

Aaaand Bishop Jr. is/was a fetus in an Utrom exoskeleton? Holy f**k?

I am thoroughly intrigued. & this artist is by far one of my favorites of the series, he consistently kills it. So dynamic & detailed!

ChosenOne 10-17-2018 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powder (Post 1780392)
Aaaand Bishop Jr. is/was a fetus in an Utrom exoskeleton? Holy f**k?
I thought of that, but then he bled as he was struck in the shoulder/chest, so I dunno... Whatever he is, it's guaranteed to be freaky and out of left field.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy 10-17-2018 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powder (Post 1780392)
Maybe I'm off base here but the implications of the flashback are pretty freakn' insane.

For starters, that blonde, was it Ravenwood? Sure looked like it. Could it be they used Utrom DNA to alter her genetic structure? She sorta has tentacles, after all. Yowza!

Aaaand Bishop Jr. is/was a fetus in an Utrom exoskeleton? Holy f**k?

I am thoroughly intrigued. & this artist is by far one of my favorites of the series, he consistently kills it. So dynamic & detailed!
I didn't think of the Ravenwood connection, but you're probably spot on right there!

And yeah, fetus in an Utrom exosuit is what I'm expecting, too... but that's pretty freaking dark, so I'm not entirely sure IDW is going to really go with that. We'll see in a month!

Utrommaniac 10-17-2018 12:21 PM
He wasn't THAT premature guys :lol: . Sure it was harder to save preemies in the late 60's, but it was still a premature birth, not a miscarriage.


That got dark real quick :teek: .


I never made the connection to Ravenwood myself. If only because they didn't quite have the same face shape. If they were going to establish her now, I think they'd put on at least a little more spotlight. Especially since she seemed to be part of the command chain right off the bat and that lady was probably a secretary. She was absolutely infused with Utrom DNA, but I question why the decision to do that would have been made. "HM let's inject this human woman with DNA from an alien creature we barely understand the basic anatomy of! What could go wrong!?"


Wow, this backstory is going to be IDW's most unsettling :teek:


Of course you know, this probably means Ravenwood is a good deal older than Bishop. "I have the authority to stop you! I put a diaper on you once!"


But yeah, I feel like I liked this issue more than others. Mostly the Bishop backstory and Ch'rell's introduction closing off with blowing up three tanks in less than ten seconds.

ChosenOne 10-17-2018 01:33 PM
But if Bishop were a fetus in an exo-suit, why would he bleed from the shoulder? That bit really threw me off after I thought I'd already figured him out.

MikeandRaph87 10-17-2018 01:36 PM
I am left unsatisfied, but for one reason, the fact we jump right in the middle of the action and it stops right in the middle of another situation. Its the negative side of arcs in modern age comics. It also means I am hooked on the plot too. What kind of alliance will Chr'ell make with the TMNT and Mutanimals? Where is Sally Pride?

AlZarkovski 10-17-2018 01:38 PM
Great issue! So many action and story! Yes, I also thought that this woman could be Ravenwood. It was the 50s, I doubt that she immediately became an agent.

But there is one thing that confuses me. Flashback takes place in 1968. However, the Roswell incident was in 1947. Did the EPF conducted research of the Utrom's ship and the pilot for 21 years?

Eisenhower also spoke about the dangers of the military in 1961. Maybe I'm wrong, but did the EPF receive funding after that?

MikeandRaph87 10-17-2018 01:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlZarkovski (Post 1780404)
Great issue! So many action and story! Yes, I also thought that this woman could be Ravenwood. It was the 50s, I doubt that she immediately became an agent.

But there is one thing that confuses me. Flashback takes place in 1968. However, the Roswell incident was in 1947. Did the EPF conducted research of the Utrom's ship and the pilot for 21 years?

Eisenhower also spoke about the dangers of the military in 1961. Maybe I'm wrong, but did the EPF receive funding after that?
The dialogue did suggest while they do not understand the physiology of the utroms after dissection and they need to provide answers for funding answers would come so yes I believe it would drag out two decades.

It is also interesting to see Agent Bishop is not a contemporary of Andrew Jackson,but a Generation X baby that would be fifty years old now. I guess we can assume that he has had just one body albeit enhanced?

Utrommaniac 10-17-2018 01:56 PM
I looked back at the previous issue and yeah, they have indeed been studying for 21 years.



What kind of preservation did they put that Utrom under if they were still able to study it for that long :o ???

MikeandRaph87 10-17-2018 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utrommaniac (Post 1780408)
I looked back at the previous issue and yeah, they have indeed been studying for 21 years.



What kind of preservation did they put that Utrom under if they were still able to study it for that long :o ???
Comic book logic cryogenics or maybe ooze.

Utrommaniac 10-17-2018 02:06 PM
It's pretty unlikely they had ooze.

I would think formaldehyde, but that can be unreliable if you're trying to do research and dissection for the long term.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy 10-17-2018 02:15 PM
Thinking about it in retrospect, IDW kinda took the 4Kids route with this.

Just like Oroku Saki, we thought Bishop was going to be (mostly) human, and then he gets sliced up and--BOOM. Exosuit robot of some sort!

Utrommaniac 10-17-2018 02:23 PM
At the very least, they didn't wait until three or four seasons in to tell us. And that he was pretty likely human to begin with, and still retains at least some biological stuff inside all that metal.

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy 10-17-2018 02:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utrommaniac (Post 1780413)
At the very least, they didn't wait until three or four seasons in to tell us. And that he was pretty likely human to begin with, and still retains at least some biological stuff inside all that metal.
But does he? I mean, I assume he does. But it's hard to tell. It SEEMS to be blood, and it probably is, but I can't just take that for granted.

Is it a squishy human eyeball or a robot eyeball? Etc, etc.


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