Your honest thoughts on Fred Wolf's Shredder
 

Self-explanatory title.

The Fred Wolf series, as we know, established the Shredder as the Turtles' nemesis. In the Mirage comics he gets killed off in the very first issue and the Turtles fight all sorts of bad guys and characters in those comics.

In the FW series, Oroku Saki was one of Hamato Yoshi's students at the Foot Clan. One day, Oroku Saki frames his master Yoshi and Yoshi gets banished from the Foot Clan and moves to NYC, while Saki becomes the leader of the clan in Japan and turns it into an army of crime.

Eventually Saki becomes the Shredder. Who knows when he exactly began wearing his purple cape and his metal mask and spikes. And tbh, what even was the point? I guess it looks cool and the spikes serve as some sort of protection against pointy weapons? But yeah, probably because a plain Oroku Saki action figure in civilian form wouldn't sell that well. :lol:

And, Shredder tries to kill Yoshi with the mutagen but that doesn't work as we all know and the rest is history.

Somewhere, sometime, Shredder met Krang, an alien from outer space with access to advanced technology, and decided to work with him. Makes you wonder whatever happened to the Foot Clan in Japan after Shredder decided to go to USA. By the time he tried to kill Yoshi, he already met Krang, since that's where he got the mutagen from. So the question is: did Shredder decide to go to USA to kill Yoshi for good or did he just happen to be on vacation in NYC when he suddenly met Krang? Who knows.

Anyway, Shredder in this version is quite cartoonish and more incompetent than in most other versions. He sometimes gets defeated by getting pizza thrown in his face, but he's still a dangerous opponent and hard to defeat once and for all. He always gets away in the end. The voice actor? James Avery did a GREAT job with it. I think we can all agree that.

Shredder is actually rather intelligent. He seems to know a lot about science and technology. He wasn't an idiot by any means. Who knows where he learned all of that. Did he get a degree in engineering back in Japan? So he was both a top engineering student and also a black belt? Ehhh a bit hard to believe, but Donatello is also a genius scientist and engineer despite being a teenage mutant turtle living in the sewer with no formal education whatsoever, soooo...

Oh and I love how Shredder in this version has a sense of humour. He's a pretty funny guy, tbh. Even when he doesn't try to be. Whodoesn't love his classic insults/lines? "You wretched reptiles"! "Those blasted turtles"! "You mutant morons"!

The "tonight I dine on turtle soup" line has always creeped me out a bit though. I seriously hope he never meant that literally. Also, I'm not sure if it would be good for your health to eat mutant turtles. They probably still have traces of mutagen left in their bodies. So maybe Shredder would turn into a Turtle if he ate them. :teek:

A funny thing about Shredder though, is that even though he's the nemesis of the Turtles and Splinter and the villain that gets mentioned in the theme song... he takes orders from Krang. Technically Krang is THE boss of the bad guys. I Shredder did not have access to the Technodrome nor had he ever met Krang... I don't think he'd last long against the Turtles and Splinter.

His past is also rather interesting. So his mother is a retired super-villain but his brother is a police officer? What a dysfunctional family.

I think Shredder could be quite ruthless and cunning at times. But due to it being a children's cartoon, obviously they had to tone down a bit on that and made him a bit more incompetent and look like a fool at times. But there's times where April would have definitely died if the Turtles had not come to her rescue. And also, "I never bluff".

It's kinda funny how Shredder wanted to take over the world on this version while Chrell in 2k3 did not, even though the latter had a much bigger chance of succeeding at it. Although, Shredder in the FW series cared more about killing the Turtles and Splinter than taking over the world.

In most versions Shredder is a badass and scary type of villain. In this one, though, he's more like a funny type of villain. One that makes you forget at times what he's capable of doing if there's no Turtles around to stop him. I'd say FW Shredder is more like Bowser and most other Shredders are more like Ganon(dorf). Know what I mean?

FW Shredder fit the tone of the show well. As did his "elderly couple" relationship with Krang.

He's okay. While I've never been one to get attached to any villains, he's almost sort of likeable these days in contrast to so many far more evil Shredders in the franchise at this point. FW Shredder wants to get rid of those Turtles and hopefully rule the world, but he's such a total failure at it. He just doesn't really have what it takes and basically just ends up stuck as the roommate of the one being that will mostly tolerate his presence and help in a mutual (and unattainable) goal, even if that being is an alien. It's kind of funny really.

Although I'm always going to wonder why they went with a cape and yet, for the figure, no shirt/chest armor. :tlol:

I always liked OT Shredder for the same reasons. He’s still one of my favourite villains. I liked the way he was protrayed in seasons 1/2/7 and red sky the most.

He was busy enslaving planets in the Theta Galaxy.

He is by far, the best Shredder in my opinion, and just very entertaining overall.

There is so much to say about him, it'll take me a while to gather all my thoughts.

If this was a lettercol I would say "Nothing printable."

Fred Wolf's Shredder is not Shredder, he's not even a decent villain. The closest thing to praise I can give him is that he isn't one of the other three main villains, which really just means he isn't extremely annoying.

While no adaptation makes Shredder out to be quite the same character as he was in the comic, Fred Wolf might actually be even less representative of that than the literal alien version. The FW Shredder does not want revenge and does not kill Hamato Yoshi or Tang Shen, all key traits of the Shredder that even Ch'rell gets right. However, in addition to this lack of defining aspects, FW Shredder is also best described as a clownish parody of mad scientists, a rather perplexing creative liberty as the character is meant to be a ruthless martial artist even in the FW cartoon.

Finally, we get to the problem of wheter or not he even works as a character. The previously mentioned contradiction in characterisation does lead to a rather confused character that is kind of hard to pin down, it's confusing as to wheter or not we're meant to take him seriously as a threat or laugh at him for being a buffoon. His motivation is also rather paper thin and we're not quite sure why he wants to take over the world. There's also the gap in his backstory but I don't think we need to bring that up or we'll be here forever.

Yeah that's one weird action figure lol

I had a feeling you'd say that ;)

Good points. Indeed his reason to take over the world is a bit... non-existent? What reason does he even have? I guess it's the old supervillain cliché of wanting to take over the world. Not a cliché I've ever been a fan of. It would have made more sense for Shredder to be satisfied enough already with ruling the Foot Clan and Japan.

Well, eventually he wants revenge somewhat. He becomes obsessed with killing the Turtles and Splinter, letting such obsession getting even ahead of his world domination plans. Funny enough, Dregg also eventually ends up getting obsessed with killing the Turtles as well.

I like his design. He was very badass looking, menacing and unique for a main villain on a kids show at the time. But he suffers from all of the problems of a lot of toon villains from that period, where he spends all his time yelling at his subordinates rather than being the formidable villain we'd prefer to see, dishing out impressive martial arts moves, splitting turtle shells and the like.

That's my main impression of him... first and foremost, that he looks cool, but close secondary is that he complaints 90% of the time rather than doing cool stuff. It is what it is.

He takes orders from Krang and clearly has no power over him, which makes it a bit harder to take him seriously. And even Krang eventually stops looking menacing. He's literally a brain in a slow and clumsy body. If Raphael tried to stick his sai in him, he'd be a goner.

Fred Wolf Shredder was a twit and I liked him for that in the earlier seasons.
Then, he sort of panned out into a generic villain during The Red Sky Season.

Great design, great voice, great jokes, good banter with just about everyone he encounters, but as far as Shredders go, he is largely incompetent & foolish. Par the course for the series, though.

James Avery truly did a great job with the role. He seemed to really get into it. In fact, that's one of the main strengths of the FW series: it's superb voice acting cast and the chemistry between them.

He was great and I think Avery did a terrific job although this Shredder is not as threatening as he could be as I mention below.

I disagree with most of what you said apart from this quotation. You are correct, I think one of the main problems of the FW series is that Shredder was often portrayed as ineffectual and I think he would have made a greater threat if he was...well more threatening like the 90s movie Shredder for instance. Having said that with this flawed Shredder who cracks jokes he came across as the most human and less wooden like many other iterations have so at the end of the day is he really any worse than the 2003 Shredder for instance?

Agreed. Though OT Shredder isn’t my favourite Shredder, he was at least human and had a sense of humour, unlike Ch’rell. For example, I love his response to Vernon in the episode Attack of the Neutrinos when Vernon said he didn’t know anything and Shredder replied “That’s never stopped you from talking before”.

Basically, this

He had to be more human and have more of a sense of humour for that version since it was a comedy and aimed at kids, I guess.

Villains in children's properties are often like that. Dr. Robotnik, King K. Rool, Team Rocket and Bowser are also kind of buffoons.

In the context of cartoons, Fred Wolf Shredder is probably the greatest comedic bumbling villain in the history of the medium.

He might very well be. Or at least top 5.

Tbh the main villains of the show are still very popular after all these years. FW basically made Shredder THE number 1 Turtles villain and also was the debut of Rocksteady, Bebop and Krang; 3 characters that casuals still remember after all these years and demand to see in every single Turtles cartoon and movie to this day.

I feel like the greatest pitfall to this Shredder was simply that he was a product of the 80's. He had all the right pieces to be a pretty great villain, but because of the "uwu no extreme violence for the kiddies winners don't do drugs uwu" attitude of the time, he was defanged into a bumbling hooligan.

The same goes for Krang, Bebop, and Rocksteady.



It would be nice to see what they could have been without having to go full IDW.

The answer to that is somewhere along the lines of season 1, 2 and 7 of the OT where Shredder was at his most competent (not counting the Red Sky seasons).

Anyways, I absolutely love this incarnation and I am adamant in my belief that this is the best Shredder of all time, for one simple reason: He is super entertaining and fun for the vast majority of the Original Cartoon's run.

Sure, many of the other Shredders are entertaining too for their great fighting skill and menacing demeanor, but that only works up to a point.

The Shredder is an incredibly cool concept, a ninja wearing samurai armour who leads the Foot Clan and has incredible martial arts skills, but in order to make a character who is more than novelty and lasts for more than a few issues, you have to give the character personality traits that will stick in people's heads.

That is precisely what this Shredder is, very memorable because of his personality that always saw him either bickering with Krang, insulting Bebop and Rocksteady and interacting with other characters in ways that always left a smile on my face for more than 100 episodes.

Sure, it cost him a lot of his competence in battle, but its a trade-off that I'm willing to endure if it means that the character himself doesn't get boring after a while.

I can imagine this Shredder doing a lot of everyday human stuff because of how his personality just comes off so naturally, whereas I just find it too ridiculous to imagine for the other Shredders.
Like for instance:

Can I imagine this Shredder going to the bar and having a good time? Of course!
Can I imagine him hosting his own television show and becoming popular? Without a doubt!
Can I imagine him enjoying his meal? Well, I think he might be the only Shredder not to look stone-faced while having his meal.

Other people have mentioned other good things about this Shredder such as his design and voice performance with James Avery which I will not repeat, but I do think there is one thing that makes him stand out that much more:
the stakes.

Think about it.
If this Shredder got his way, what would happen?
The world would be an absolute disaster, as the technodrome would literally decimate anything in its path with Shredder likely ruling alongside Krang, if he doesn't betray him like in Shredderville.

Other Shredder's have had ferocious inventions, but can any of them lay claim to having a death machine that can span a threat across multiple dimensions?
I don't think so.

Now, someone will eventually make the arguement that the technodrome was in-effective for most of the show's run, and you would be absolutely right about that.
However, that's precisely what made it all the more threatening when it did get rolling a handful of times.

Same with Fred Wolf Shredder's fighting skills, he may have been getting his arse kicked by the turtles a lot, but that made his competent moments all the more awesome, when he gave out his fair share of beatings to them on occassion (such as beating all four turtles in The Incredible Shrinking Turtles and Shredder Triumphant).

Also, who could forget the 7 episodes involving Shredder in the Red Sky seasons?
They had him doing all sorts of stuff that was not the norm, such as blowing up the Channel Six building and showing a tenderness and caring side towards Krang.
It would've become old if it went on for too long, but what we got of Shredder in seasons 8 and 10 was a different and interesting take on an established character that we had grown to love.

That is all for now.

Haha yeah

Great post, indeed.

Tbh, if Shredder ended up taking over the world or USA, he'd have made a pretty charismatic dictator. One that people would remember forever for better or for worse. :tlol:

James Avery was very talented and seemed to really get into the role. I have no idea how he felt about his role as Shredder after all those years, but I'm willing to bet he loved doing it. He'll forever be Uncle Phil AND Shredder to me.

I mean yeah, those are more things that have gone to waste to make him a whiny bungler.

He was very charismatic. He would be the life of a party. While in normal "Oroku Saki" clothes, he'd be a really cool dude. Enough so that a "secret reveal" might be a betrayal to the humans he made friends with.
And that's what sets him apart from other Shredders the most. He's not a grumpy jerk who monologues about revenge and taking over.

He's a charismatic jerk who monologues about revenge in and take him over. Someone who people who don't know better would WANT to be around.

BTW, what ep is this pic from? Is it from the episode the Earth's temperature was heating up?

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...26/194/bd8.jpg

This pic illustrates why people like him. Shredder is sweating in this pic, so what does he do? He takes a washcloth to wipe his "metal helmet" instead of putting it on his skin. So in other words he's not even wiping his sweat off his skin...he's wiping...his metal mask. Which of course....accomplishes nothing to relieve yourself of heat. :lol:

It's funny but when you think about it, the Shredder who is most similar to the FW series Shedder is THIS Shredder.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20171012225548
The 2012 series had plenty of schemes which could be in a FW episode, such as:
- The mutation of Anton Zeck and Ivan Steranko into Bebop and Rocksteady. In that scene Shredder is at his most sarcastic, the way he refers to Steranko as "My old friend." before having the mutation take place as if it was an execution. It isn't really all that different from how FW episodes had Shredder deal with anybody who got in his way.

- When handing Karai to the Turtles after they returned his stolen helmet to him. Only to reveal that it was a mannequin stuffed with explosives. As the Turtles take off with that explosive "gift" we can almost see him grinning behind that face mask. Not too difficult hearing Avery's voice going "You gullible fools, do you REALLY think I'd give you Karai in exchange for my helmet?" when watching that scene.

- Speaking of Karai, that scene in "Vengeance is mine" where he hangs her above that vat of mutagen laced with snake DNA in order to lure the turtles there and mutating them into mindless snakes who would attack and eat Splinter. Come on, that's as FW as it gets, that's a scheme straight out of the 1987 series. The only difference being that he would have used April as bait.

Technodrome
 

Wasn't that scene in the Technodrome?

The Technodrome didn't even have AC? Such a technologically advanced alien invention and yet no one remembered to build an AC or a cooling room temperature system? :lol:

Its from "Turtles on Trial".

While doing that, Shredder says "cool down!" to Krang, who then gets even angrier because they're under the earth's core, and Bebop and Rocksteady failed to steal the refrigeration units that they needed.

Shredder's Mom
 

The Technodrome is on the Volcanic Asteroid and not on Earth in Shredder's Mom, so it can't be that episode.

Shredder & Krang was like Elvis and col Parker (they accepted each others flaws), they had to make the best out of the situation :lol:

(but Mirage Shredder prolly wouldve sliced Krang to pieces :o

I kinda felt Shredder was as dangerous as he was allowed to be given he was in a kids' cartoon. Similar to Raph, Shredder would also sometimes raise his brow at the silliness he had to endure. Given his super ridiculous fake pizzeria trap plan that one time, most of his things were played mostly straight but ruined due to Bebop and Rocksteady's incompetence. Status Quo kept them from flat out firing them or killing them off, but many villains at the time had the bumbling henchmen that would constantly fail and yet the main villain would only complain about them but never actually get rid of them.

Shredder wanted power and control. There's no reason or backstory behind it, but even in the past he saw a way to get rid of Yoshi and he took it. He's mostly using Krang and putting up with him for the technology and the technodrome. There's been times when he saw an out where he could get rid of the turtles and Krang, but obviously things would backfire and we'd return to status quo.

It was a different time and I think the original 4 villains were endearing to the fanbase. I could see kids literally hate Shredder if come Lord Dregg, after so many seasons, he would abandon Krang, Bebop and Rocksteady and join Dregg for the rest of the series showing he never really cared for any of them.

Exactly! Various iterations of TMNT went to great lengths to show how powerful Shredder was but never found that balance with showing a more sociable, more three-dimensional character. It was important for the FW series to do that as well considering the wacky, unrealistic stuff that happened to him.

Oooo I don't think I can agree there. He may have been bumbling at times but not outwardly comedic.

You said it perfectly, thank you! :)

He loved doing it. Apparently according to this interview he auditioned for Shredder in the 2003 series but didn't get the role. :lol: