What are your biggest disappointments with the MCU?
 

I'll go first with mine, in order of what disappoints me the most to disappoints me the least.

1. Ed Norton's recasting as Hulk. I get it, but seeing him in the Avengers was the biggest thing I was looking forward to. Sidenote: also the complete forgetting about the character of Betty, after Incredible Hulk.

2. The disconnect between the TV and movies. I would've lost my sh** in Infinity War or Endgame if Jon Bernthal's Punisher popped out and started blasting Thanos troops, or seeing the Charlie Cox Daredevil saving some people on a street or something. I don't think this was ever too much to ask. I know the new Disney+ series will be far more interconnected with the films but this should have been the case all along, as they originally promised us.

3. Iron Man 3. It learned nothing from the mistakes of 2 and even double-downed on them. Also, huge disappointment on the Mandarin.

4. Thor 3. A largely brain dead summer actioner that just repeats the same "I need to prove myself worthy!" story from the first movie. With more laughs and none of the supporting characters from 1 or 2 except Loki. Thor 2 was flawed but deserved a proper follow-up.

5. No Death in Infinity War or Endgame. I thought for sure they'd reposition Hela from Thor 3 as Death (I thought that was the whole point in getting Blanchett at all) if not introduce Death herself... well, turns out none of the above, folks. No Death at all, even though she was like the sole motivating factor for Thanos in the comics. I guess we can thank China for that, or rather Disney's insistence on kowtowing to their weird sensibilities (no occult, skulls, ghosts, etc.).

6. Hulk and Thor's treatment in Endgame. Basically, they took the manliest characters of the Avengers... made one a weakened intellectual (Hulk) and made the other one a fat, depressed beer swiller (Thor). And to boot, they make another one a retired old man (Cap) handing his shield off to a person of color, even though that's not the way it shook out in the comics (at least, not in this order). And after that "preview" of a fight between Hulk and Thanos in Infinity War, I thought for sure there'd be a main event in Endgame. Turns out there was nothing at all. Just an "Endgame" for toxic masculinity, instead.

7. The Marvel Netflix decline. Daredevil season 1? AWESOME. Daredevil season 2? Pretty cool! Daredevil season 3? Maybe a LITTLE bit of a step back in some ways, but nice. Jessica Jones season 1? Cool! I dig it as the start of her arc. 2 and 3? Uh... no. No, not good. The people in charge seem to delight in not allowing her to evolve, just keeping her the same from beginning to end. Would've been nice to see a greater usage of her powers. Also, 2 and 3 seemed more interested in feminism than actually growing Jessica. Iron Fist? Both seasons were pretty OK... but I am NOT a fan of him having no costume. He SHOULD wear one. I also didn't appreciate him being emasculated in that 2nd season. Luke Cage 1 and 2? Both pretty cool, especially 1. Punisher season 1 and 2? WOW. It is actually criminal that we may never see the Bernthal Punisher again. Picture perfect casting and nicely executed (and brutal!) stories. Defenders? A SHAM! And the whole build-up to "is he ready for when the gate opens!" from Daredevil season 1 was completely ignored. Also, Marvel Netflix/Disney or whoever clearly fell on their sword to all the SJWs complaining about the evil Japanese ninja clan in Daredevil season 1 and 2 being Japanese. Morons.

8. No real advancement on Deadpool 3 yet. C'mon. You guys promised. Give us something here.

9. Agents of SHIELD. I still watch it and enjoy it... but its become a shell of its former self. It peaked in season 3, I think, with the alien planet and the living embodiment of HYDRA being the bad guy. Season 2 was awesome, too, with Kyle freakin' MacLachlan as Daisy's dad. We even had Samuel L. Jackson show up a couple of times and even Bill Paxton as an ongoing villain. For the last few seasons they must have had their budget hamstringed or something and it's all kind of by-the-numbers plot-driven stuff (rife with a lot of snarky SJW-type dialogue lately), no more character-driven stuff, and I think that really hurt things. Season 4 restored SHIELD to good public standing then it was almost as immediately yanked away... I've been waiting since season 1 for things to be restored to normality but it never seems to be in the cards.

Most of the MCU movies just aren't timeless. They've dated horribly over the last decade, the humour is too quirky and comes close to Family Guy levels at times.

Each film's story doesn't get talked about much on it's own merits by it's audience, all they quote are the jokes or the memetic lines, all they care about is the post-credit scene and discussing the next disappointment to come. There is nothing to hook them in the main feature, and whatever does isn't related to some weighty moral or captivating character arc, it's whatever stupid fart or pop culture joke the characters crack.

There are just so few journies in these movies you can be taken on. At a stretch, Tony is the best realised in the MCU, but even he doesn't really have a low point even in the films where he's supposed to because nobody stays mad at him for long enough.

Lack of Death in Infinity War / Endgame.
While I understand that for some people it might look to quirky, I mean, nigh invulnerable monster is trying to destroy universe to woo his waifu, it would have been better than pseudo-scientific explanation about "halving population of the universe slows entropy and waster of resources". Especially in the movie series where you have a talking racoon and a sentient tree.

And over all, lack of stakes. MCU movies never feel like there is a genuine threat. It is obvious that by the end all characters gonna become friends again and only insignificant characters gonna die.

There are plenty of movies where you know that main character gonna survive no matter what, yet you worry for them. MCU just leaves me completely disinterested in that regard.
It feels like a kid's cartoon almost.

1. This may sound really trivial but the lack of wings on Captain America's helmet. I definitely think his Avengers 2012 costume should have included them given how much more the suit was trying to invoke patriotic super hero imagery over military garb. I know that it may look very stupid but the CW Flash for all its faults made the lightning bolts on the cowl work and one of those Batintgesun videos gave us a great Marvel Now inspired Cap but with the raised wings and it looked great so it can be done.

2. I definitely wanted a real Mandarin in Iron Man 3. The twist was actually funny and one of the better parts of the movie but it wasn't worth not having a proper Mandarin. Even if I'm not a huge fan of the character it would have been great to see a battle with a mystically charged foe. They could have even worked it that he charged his rings with an Infinity Stone.

3. How badly botched the whole situation with the Inhumans was. Not a huge fan but I have a certain fondness for the characters and would like to have seen them in the MCU. However their hamfisted push for them in comics created this resentment that they were trying to replace the X-Men and in the end it seemed Marvel just caved and relegated them to a crappy 10$ budget TV series. I was also a fan on Hickman's Infinity series which was a clear influence on Infinity a War. I would have liked to have seen more of that. Black Bolt destroying Attilan to keep it from falling to Thanos would have been cool to see in a movie.

Beyond that just better movies for the ones I was less fond of. Iron Man 2, The Dark World. This is a hugely normie opinion but Marvel studios have yet to give us a properly bad movie so I can't complain too much but yeah this is what I'd change.

There's been several. People just won't admit it.

People don't tend to admit to things they don't actually believe.

Spider-Man Homecoming is trash and so is Thor 3. Never saw the second Spider-Man because of how mad the first one made me. Nothing else besides that for me.

Well, no. A theme across most of the movies I can do without is how everything is a joke. I need less hyucks.

1. The tone of all the movies. I want fewer jokes and more stakes. It seems that when they play up the stakes, it's ruined a second later by some lame 'joke' that ruins all the build up

2. The samey style for all the movies. I'm all for consistency. but perhaps the MCU is 'too' consistence in how the movies look and feel. Sure, Winter Soldier the guardians movies and Thor 3 all seem to look different, but they don't look different enough.

Also, Captain Marvel is by far the worst Marvel 'movie'.

Well the weakest movies in order of release are:

• The Incredible Hulk
• Iron Man 2
• Iron Man 3
• Thor: The Dark World
• Avengers: Age of Ultron
• Black Panther
• Captain Marvel

I'm not adding TV shows to that list because let's face it, they are probably going to be treated as non-canon down the line.

In terms of creative descisions I don't like:

• The design of the Abomination
• Completely ignoring foreshadowing of the Leader
• The aliens in Avengers basically being a generic force created for that movie
• Writing out SHIELD as it was a secret HYDRA thing
• Zola being killed off and never getting his robot body
• Ultron being about as definitively as possible in his first appearence
• Giving every single character in GotG overly simplified backstories (yes, I get that making Gamora from the future and Drax a human recreated by an Eternal might be confusing to explain in one movie but all things considered...)
• Turning the Eye of Agamotto into a time travel device
• Effectively turning Spider-Man into Iron Man Jr.
• Having Flash be a rich spiteful nerd who would obviously never join the military
• Making the Grandmaster an idiot manchild
• The uh... Hrm... Awkwardness... of Black Panther... Hrm...
• Removing Death, thereby making Thanos' reasoning a bit more nonsensical
• Making Nick Fury lose an eye to a cat
• Making the villainous elements of the Skrull a total lie by the Kree
• Making Carol's backstory so weak
• Killing off Mar-Vell off in such an undignified way
• Literally just using the name and species of Talos for a new character
• A damn video game amnesia plot
• Carol's powers being held back by little nub on the neck
• Effectively removing the possibility of Genis-Vell, Phyla-Vell and Teddy Altman from ever showing up
• Casting Brie Larson
• Introducing the concept of alternate timelines in the movie they need it
• Seemingly confirming that they'll never use Hydro-Man (I know I'm in the minority who care about Hydro-Man but still)
• Deciding to go with a secret identity revealed twist so soon

Movies are entertaining but ultimately forgettable, there's a reason why DC films are still talked about despite supposedly being inferior to Marvel films, with Marvel you just want the latest, like a soap opera but how many are as rewatchable as the original Iron Man?

Captain America: Winter Soldier
Captain America: Civil War (mostly)
Infinity War (kinda)

That's about it

When Iron Man 3 came out most people were towing the line, posting everywhere "the best Marvel movie yet!" and other nonsense.

That movie was complete ****. It's almost irredeemable.

I agree with the others on your list but what was weak about Black Panther? It blows the others on that list out of the water.

I loved Black Panther. Killmonger and Klaw stole every scene they were in.

I guess my disappointments were

-Iron Man 3

-Other than Loki, and I guess Klaw and Crossbones, no other villains survive long enough to return or do a villain team-up or anything. Even Klaw and Crossbones return only to die anyways.

-Bringing back Ross was ok but really wanted to see Abomination return somewhere, even if he's a hired gun or brainwashed or whatever

-The fact Betty Ross was also forgotten. Between that and Abomination it really makes that Hulk movie feel like it doesn't belong. Like the only two things linking it are Ross coming back and Tony's post credit cameo in that one.

-Where's Lady Sith?

-Could have gone without the Black Widow and Hulk attempt at romance. It was out of left field. I mean I guess since she was the one to seek him out in the first Avengers, maybe, but I don't remember anything past that moment that would have hinted her having feelings for him. And again, Banner acts as if Betty doesn't even exist, which would have been a good chance to at least bring her up. Hell, now that Professor Hulk was a celeb of sorts, Betty could have seeked him out assuming she wasn't snapped.

-Wish there was more crossover between Agents of SHIELD and the movies. Really wanted an extra scene of the Defenders trying to keep things under control street side during the Infinity War movies. Like the theater would have lost their ****.

When Nat seeks out Banner in the first Avengers movie he holds a cradle "we don't always get what we want" so yeah the whole romance and not being able to have kids was always Whedon's plan.

That being said I didn't really care for it. Maybe Scarlett's pregnancy affected what they could do but I didn't think her and Mark Ruffallo had any real chemistry.

I guess I always found MCU always kind of ?okay? so really I never really paid much attention.

1. The whole M.J. character in the MCU Spider-Man. I know that they said that the love interest that they chose is not Mary Jane but you still alluded to the fact that her name was M.J. Like if she's an entirely different character, why bother giving her the nickname in the first place. Not to mention, she's a very wooden and disturbed character. Like if you combined Plank from Ed, Edd, n Eddy with Raven from Teen Titans into one person, this is the result. She's "M.J." in name only.

2. While I don't find the Spider-Man films awful, they're not very ambitious. You have Peter back to being a teenage again, why? It's been done to death already. And both movies keep treating him like he's Iron Man's protege.

3. This is a bit pedantic but the final battle scene in The Incredible Hulk. Not necessarily how it went down but how it was shot. There were quite a number of inconsistencies during that fight. When Hulk kicks Blonsky, he kicks him to the right of the scene but then it cuts to him landing to the left when he hits the tree. Just a bit of weird editing shots for me, personally.

4. The CGI in Black Panther. Something about the effects were out of place with what this movie was going for. The last fight scene in particular was shockingly bad for an MCU film.

5. I really didn't care for Captain Marvel. It's not objectively a bad film but it was pretty boring in a lot of aspects. Pretty weak that a space cat was responsible for Nick Fury's eye...come on!:roll: Also didn't help that the protagonist wasn't very likable, which was an apparent problem with Brie Larson and her comments on white men before the movie was released. I would say that I was looking forward to seeing how she was teased as the key to beating Thanos but I was kinda split on the matter after both her solo movie and Endgame. On one hand, her movie didn't get me excited for her to show up since she didn't really have much character growth. On the other, she only fights him for 20 seconds and even she gets her ass handed to her. So they hyped this character up for nothing. Maybe she was mishandled but in the end, she turned out to be a character I couldn't care less about.

I guess movies such as Iron Man 2, Iron Man 3, and Avengers Age of Ultron were pretty much on the weak side. The first two Thor movies weren't great but I got a bit more enjoyment out of those.

I'm not 100% if maybe Carol had more of a fight scene with Thanos or not, but I know everyone hated the Roman Reigns Push she was getting both in the comics and the movie, so people would have rioted if they made her whup Thanos' ass as if he were nothing.

I'm glad Tony got to finish it. The whole MCU started with his movie. Throughout the series from having panic attacks in IM3 to the creation of Ultron, Tony was always in fear of what would come next from space. And seeing that Thanos was behind the alien invasion in Avengers, it made sense Tony gave his life to put his fear to rest and wipe him out.

Smart Hulk. Hulk isn't some Selfie taking dabbing taco making idiot. He is the green rage monster. They did cut out the scene of banner and hulk coming to terms and coming together which I wish was left in the movie.


Everyone hating on Thor Rangarok blah I say. its the best Thor movie and reinvented the character. Hemsworth was sick of playing him as the straight shakespearean god and wanted to do something different. Also that movie gave us Jeff Goldblum's awesome Grandmaster Tessa Thompson's Valkyrie and Korg 3 which are 3 fan favorite characters.

My Gripe is characters that haven't been brought into the MCU yet that should have. Mainly Adam Warlock and Beta Ray Bill (Hopes Beta will be in Love and Thunder)

I agree with everyone about Captain Marvel's Standalone movie it was just average nothing special. she was much cooler in Endgame and I agree fans would have revolted if she beat thanos instead of Tony.

Well, some of the flaws of the movie are... Awkward... To adress, so I'm not going to talk about them openly considering what kind of discussion that could lead to. If you really want to know about that, PM me. I'm not pointing out those flaws here.

But the ones I'm willing to adress here are:

• The opening scene in the 90's is way too hamfisted as foreshadowing. We know Killmonger must have something to do with it long before he admits to being the traitor's son. The scene would otherwise have been pointless.
• There is also no reason for the King to lie about what happened. His brother was a traitor and was killed when he retaliated, there is no need to cover that up.
• Killmonger's makes very little sense. He had the tattoo that gives him passage into Wakanda and didn't need much proof that he's royalty. There should be any need to do anything but show up.
• The way Klaw acts is quite a leap from Age of Ultron, it feels like we missed some movie in between were he went nuts (and no, having a robot rip off your arm is not a satisfying explaination).
• Many of these issues I covered already seems to stem from a need for filler. If none of it happened then you'd end up with a movie that's about one hour long. As result of the filler, the movie has rather terrible pacing.
• There are also several points of questionable CGI particularily in the final battle.

The script is obviously pretty terrible and it's mostly the action scenes that entertain. Which, given that it's primarily an action movie, makes it somewhat forgiveable. But I can't really say it's more than mediocre overall.

But... but that's who Thor is... like, literally all the time. :blanksta:

I really, really, really don't like it when actors get too much creative control. They make everything about themselves for nebulous reasons. See also: Robbie, Margot and Quinn, Harley.

Whatever Hemsworth was portraying in the latter MCU films may have been entertaining, but it absolutely wasn't "Thor". And it kinda irks me because Thor's one of the few Marvel characters I pay any attention to. They started off well even if it was a little dry, but by the end it was so far away from who the Thor character is, they could've just called him Hammer McDudeBro or something and it would've made no difference. People always whine and whinge quite loudly in accusing lots and lots of comic book movies of not being faithful in representing their characters, and what a grave injustice that is, but DudeBro Thor is celebrated by many because... "jokes" (And the quotes are definitely warranted)? What a paper-thin double-standard that is.

Of course, apparently most of what he did in Chickbusters was his own personal choices, too. So I guess it turns out that Chris Hemsworth, a guy whose work I initially enjoyed in his early years, is kind of a goofball jagoff who thinks he's hilarious but isn't really, and insists on putting too much of himself in his material. That's unfortunate. I liked him fine ten years ago but now I'd kinda be fine never seeing him again.

"Cabin in the Woods" is alright, though. Gotta admit, I LOVE seeing him wipe out on that trap wall.

Wasn't he also portrayed as a bumbling 'how did they even hire this guy' type of idiot in the new MIB? It's kinda like he went from being the manly man men aspire to be to now being Homer Simpson.

I didn't see it - not a big "Men In Black" guy - but I saw snippets of trailers on YouTube when that thing was coming out and yeah, I kinda don't like this dude. He's a clown shoe.

I mean guys like Bill Murray can make "Obnoxious, Insufferable Twat" their gimmick and play it in every movie to the point where they're not even "acting" in roles anymore, if they have a certain charisma, but not everyone can or should even try for that. For one thing, Hemsworth hasn't earned that kinda thing yet, and for another, he's not even incredibly funny or charming. If you're "neutral" on him in general like me he just comes off as a goof, and the more you see the less you wanna see.

I'm aware that mileage will vary. And I did really, really wanna like the guy once upon a time. When I saw "Thor 1" I thought the movie was slightly above average but that he himself was good. But it's been all downhill from there in everything I've seen him in.

So of course he's playing Hulk Hogan in some upcoming biopic. :lol: Ohhhhh brother, Brother! Real treat for me. :lol: I love how they got a guy with a full head of hair who can barely get tan and vocally hates working out, to play a guy who went bald at age 2, has the skin tone of overcooked bacon and still has arms like tree trunks at age 60-whatever. Such perfectly inspired casting. :lol: I haven't seen such "perfect" casting since Will Sasso played Jesse "The Body" Ventura on MAD TV. :trazz:

Everything involving Spider-Man
Brie Larson's casting as Carol Danvers
The lack of Hulk-related side stories
Too much Iron Man/RDJ wank
The Guardians of the Galaxy are unlikable assholes for the most part

I agree with the sentiment that the overall tone has too much humor. Infinity War and Endgame were so good because, for once, they played things pretty straight.

Pretty much what everyone else has said.

I'd have liked to see the X-Men and better Fantastic 4.
I need more Punisher.
Some Death, Deadpool and Thanos stuff would have been nice.
Fix Spider-Man altogether.
Better sequels.

Unfortunately, that leaves people like me who will probably never see those last two films in their entirety, because they just don't have the patience to sit through 87 skit comedies posing as super-hero movies, first, before everyone involved finally decides to stop doing shtick at the very end of the race. :lol::trazz:

I kid, I kid. Kinda. I do highly doubt I'll ever see them, though. That would require sitting through TWO Ant-Man movies and I really don't care enough.

I did really like the first Captain America, though.

You know, it’s just so boring to hear Snyder apologists wank repeatedly about how great the failed DC franchises could have been, while simultaneously slamming the beloved Marvel films.

Like, I understand that you don’t like something, but maybe it’s just not for you. Maybe they were too smart for you, who knows, but let others like what they like.

Wrong thread, buddy, nobody's doing that. We're just talking.

Your trolling efforts lately have been very, very weak. Go recharge and try again. I think your craft peaked somewhere in early-June but since then it's been tepid. Just sayin'.

These movies are the furthest you can imagine from "smart"

As someone who hasn't seen all the MCU films yet understood Infinity War and Endgame perfectly, you don't need to see all of them.

If we think of the MCU as a TV show, then both Antman films, Thor 2, Guardians 2 and Black panther are kind of like 'filler episodes'. The later 'episodes' barely reference them in any important way.

Eh, maybe. I'unno. I see what you're saying, though.

For me, I'm "supposed" to see all of them because that's the way the material was meant to be digested so I'd feel disingenuous at half-assing it. If I was gonna bother taking the journey I'd at least want to respect the creators' intent and follow the path they asked me to follow. I feel like otherwise I'd be missing some of the points or finer nuances of what they were trying to do. It's nice that you can skip some of the movies before watching those at the end, just like it's nice that you can read "Infinite Crisis" and make sense of it without reading "OMAC Project" or even "Crisis on Infinite Earths", really, just for example... you can make sense of the plot, but you're not SUPPOSED to do it that way. To get the absolute most out of the story you're supposed to follow the trail of breadcrumbs left in front of you before arriving at your predetermined endpoint. If you hopscotch around, you inevitably miss a few notes here and there; even if they're not important notes, they're still "supposed" to be part of the overall experience.

Thus, it makes perfect sense to me that the people who got the most overall enjoyment out of the final two Avengers movies are the ones who saw every single other movie first. Of course they'd get the most out of it because they're going to see things other people aren't aware of, even if they're minor or even inconsequential.

So I'd actually prefer to take the Long Way There if I were to ever sit and do the deal, even though I make (half) jokes about completely not caring about certain movies. But the truth is, I've never actually read the entire Saga from the comics that the movies are loosely based on, and I'd truly, truly rather read that for the first time than ever watch a bunch of movies water down the concepts. I've never been a huge Marvel guy, period, BUT, I can say with full conviction that I'd much rather read their comics - of a certain era, anyway, primarily 80s/early-90s - than watch any of the movies based on them.

It's not even "a knock" against the movies, it's fine that people like them and they excel at what they aim at doing, there's no denying that. They just do a lot of things that I don't care for in movies, is all. Not even "super-hero movies", just movies in general. At my age, with just about ANY comic book adaptation... I'd just rather read the books again. They're just more in line with my sensibilities and what I like about super-hero fiction. Movies and TV shows do not elevate the material of super-hero fiction, they simply water it down and diminish it so they can serve it fast-food style to a mass audience. It's like if comic books are spaghetti, live-action adaptations are Chef Boyardee. And again, at my age, the novelty of seeing stuff play out in live action isn't really enough to entice me anymore. I'm over it. The best versions of the stories and characters are always, always going to remain in print, and that's just the way it is.

That said, this thread is about stuff that specifically disappointed people about the MCU films, so even though I don't care as much, I feel that it's fine to toss a nickel into the "WHY I don't especially care" bucket. I'm not taking shots or trying to bang the drum, people have already said a lot of how I feel about it so I don't need to rehash what they've said.

I think Captain America and Iron Man were both really well-done, though. I think those two are going to hold up better over the ages than most of what's come since. They're nowhere near as ambitious but they're also a lot more focused and do a great job of presenting the source material, providing a strong bridge between the movies and comics for anyone who maybe hadn't heard of the characters and wanted to know more. Later movies, you really couldn't do that because the stories and characters became so unrecognizable. It's like, "So you like ______ and wanna read more about them? Tough break, in the comics they're a totally different character so it's pointless."

I really appreciated how the earliest movies were both good on their own, and also good adaptations. I've turned a lot of people on to the first Captain America who said they skipped it because he was "The boring Avenger" after jumping into the series with the more recent movies. They're usually surprised to find how much they like that movie. But that's purely anecdotal.

As someone who likes MCU, I must agree.
Marvel movies are definition of popcorn and not particularly smart at all.

I think after Endgame I've just decided to largely not watch any more MCU film.

Not from any sort of stubbornness, but simply because they've spent the last 11 years building up a series of interconnecting film that lead up to a (mostly) satisfying conclusion that I was (mostly) happy with.

Waiting around for possibly another 10 years or so for the next one which probably won't be done nearly as well seems like a waste to me

I'll probably watch the odd or so if the film really interests me, but overall I'm kind of just done with the MCU

I think that my biggest problem with them isn't even the movies, it's the audience, or certain parts of it.

People have proven to be willing to rabidly attack certain flaws in other movies, not even super-hero movies but just plain movies in general, yet those same exact criticisms can be lobbed towards MCU movies, often to a much greater degree, but it's like nobody is supposed to point it out. Like someone can rant and rave about how many plot threads were abandoned between "Prometheus" and "Alien: Covenant" and how they're both crap for those reasons and more- I disagree, by the way, I think they're alright, but anyway - but if you apply those same exact criticisms to, like, "Why does 'The Incredible Hulk' movie have nothing to do with anything, when it Could and Should be a major building block for the entire project?" or "If the second Thor movie was just gonna be disregarded, why did they make it and ask people for money to watch it?", people accuse you of spoiling their fun when you're merely questioning where the selective criticism comes from.

There's literally millions of movies people like which I don't care for and that's absolutely fine. The thing with the MCU that puzzles me is simply, things people attack in other films, no matter what kind of films, sometimes rabidly attack... they just handwave if the movie has a "Marvel" sticker on it. And it's like, you either care or you don't. If you're a person who bangs on about Movie X's flaws but ignores the exact same problems in Movie Y, I just can't understand it.

It's got nothing at all to do with the specific movies or their subject matter, let me be perfectly clear on that. It's just a thing people do more with those movies and it drives me up a wall.

It's true that "Everyone is a Critic", but such dramatic levels of inconsistency is frustrating if you pay attention to people as closely as I do.

That's what infuriates me about their version of Spider-Man. People shout to high heaven that Snyder's Superman is a brooding jerk, but the MCU completely changes Peter Parker's setting, supporting cast, and overall portrayal and every "Marvel stan" on Twitter claps like an intoxicated seal.

Zendaya is NOT Mary Jane Watson. Flash Thompson is NOT a fast talking, academically inclined Indian kid. Ned Leeds is NOT a pudgy, comic-relief sidekick Peter met in high school or a Ganke Lee expy. In fact, MCU Spider-Man is basically Miles Morales in whiteface anyway. As an African American fan myself, I see they love to promote all that "diversity" but they couldn't really follow through in a way that was meaningful. And in that regard, don't get me started on the Carol Danvers/Monica Rambeau relationship in the movies vs. the comics.

These things have a shelf life. Stories are supposed to end. I'm interested to see if the timeline of those movies ends up being as convoluted as that of the original comic universe.

Spider-Man was always my favorite Marvel character if I have one, anyway, so yeah, everything about these new ones just makes me go, "nope".

They have, like, nothing at all that's recognizable to me as someone who owns a few comics and has played plenty of video games. Nothing I know and like about Spider-Man exists in the new movies. It's fine if people like it, but you're right, it's pretty far from faithful so it's bizarre that some of the same individuals who care a lot about fidelity, or claim to, in Movie X, will disregard it entirely for Movie Y because Movie Y spoke more to them personally. I'm sure they're fun movies, but that's not the point. My point is simply that people are very selective with their criticism at times, and it's just weird.

They should just say, "I just liked this better for myself, and that's that," and leave the inconsistent straw-grabbing about character fidelity out of the conversation entirely, if they're going to be so wishy-washy about when it should apply and when it doesn't matter.
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I completely don't want to derail the topic, but since you mentioned it, it always baffles me how people see what's clearly meant to be read as "introspective and conflicted" as "brooding and mopey" with regard to Cavill's Superman. He mopes a little towards the back end of BvS - in like, one scene - because all he has are good intentions and people won't let him just Be Superman, but for 5 hours across one-and-a-half movies before that, he's just trying to figure this whole gig out. I mean, he's been tasked with the hardest job in the world, there's no manual for it, and people keep telling him to f*ck off when all he wants to do is help out. His emotional responses scene-to-scene are the appropriate emotional reactions to the events happening around him.

Aaaaaaaaand it's all directly lifted from the comic books where he's predominantly behaved Exactly In That Manner since at least the mid-70s. The problem isn't that he's "Out of character", it's that it's a version of the character the people making the criticisms haven't been exposed to, so it's foreign to them. But it isn't "wrong"; if you've read the Byrne and Jurgens and Stern and Ordway stuff, for example, you know that it's "Introspective and Conflicted", not "brooding and mopey". This is a character who spends a ton of his time wrestling with an existential crisis about whether he's doing Too Much or Not Enough. It's just that "standing around in the Alps lost in thought" doesn't make for very exciting cartoons and such, so most people don't realize that that's, like, 60% of his day when he's not Clark Kenting or saving people. :lol: It's fine if you don't know that's part of who he is, if you've never seen it, but if you don't know just say you don't know. Y'know?

People who don't read comics can't see his thought balloons, so they have no idea how neurotic Clark Kent really is, and he's got every reason to be. Especially Year One, which is what those movies were based on, when he just got started and isn't even close to knowing what he's doing yet.

I know most people know and love the Reeve movie where he literally gets his cape, is immediately a Perfect Being who knows everything and always does everything right, but... that's literally the One And Only Time that the character's ever been presented that way. In all the other versions that have ever been done of the character, his entire first year is a big game of trial and error and he has a lot of sh*tty days along the way. You can't insist that people throw out 80 years of Hard Canon because "I wanna see him smile more", that's kind of silly. "Out of character presentation" is one of the worst complaints about those movies, it's simply incorrect. It's alright to not have seen or read something in the canon until you start fighting wars over your position, that's how I look at it.

Sorry to go off-topic, but obviously it's something I'm passionate about and it comes up a lot, and since you pointed it out specifically I felt like going into it. It's just such a bogus criticism that it exposes the person doing the criticizing as someone who literally doesn't know anything about the character, positioning themselves as an authority on the character. And it gets very frustrating when you're in my position, y'know what I mean? People screaming at the top of their lungs about something simply because they were personally misinformed.

At least it's harmless with fictional characters. :lol: People do it with politics and real-life issues as well, and we see how THAT goes. :trazz:

I know this might not be the thread to discuss this, but how do you feel about retcons that will surely come? Like we already know there's going to be a "real" Mandarin and it's a fairly safe assumption Wanda will be retconned as mutant. Because we've already seen some retcons and the main reasons the MCU differs from the comics are:

1. A lot of things are difficult to present in live-action movies or it's difficult to establish certain concepts and characters when you are bound by runtime instead of pages.
2. A lot characters and concept were barred until last year. When they started they simply weren't allowed to use Spider-Man, Deadpool, New Mutants, the X-Men, the Fantastic Four, Daredevil, Ghost Rider, Blade, Punisher and I think Man-Thing. Plus the fact that there are still some limits on Spider-Man and Hulk.

Of course, there have been retcons to make the series more complex and the recent addition of licenses means more are sure to come. And retcons could easily undo some decent directions.

One of the biggest and most unfortunate will surely be retconning the previous TV shows away to make way for presenting some of those characters such as Daredevil, Ghost Rider, Punisher, etc. I never watched them but people seem to like them, mostly, but everything I've read/heard says they'll most likely be discarded as some kind of alternate universe one they decide to do a Proper Daredevil or Punisher movie. So that's kind of a shame.

I was originally very curious to see what would become of the X-Men, as they could have been done terrific justice in the "real" MCU if they'd started doing it 10 years ago somehow. But as is, with all the talk from inside about wanting to make Magneto or Xavier or both either black or gay or whatever else, I have no interest in yet another "In Name Only" adaptation like their new Spider-Man stuff. So I'm pretty disappointed in that, as well. I was very underwhelmed by the Fox X-Men series although some of the movies were good, but the idea of a far more accurate and true-to-the-comics version of the X-Men was really enticing. Then they say they're not interested in doing that, and it's like, "Alright, I'm out, then."

It seems like the X-Men are destined to never get a "proper" film adaptation, and that's a shame. I am preemptively angry at them for how they've already announced that they plan to waste this great and unique opportunity that's been presented to them. COULD have been great, but I don't think it will be unless they change their priorities.

Where to begin...

Soy latte Hulk
Fat Thor
No Funeral For Black Widow
No Ironman vs The Mandorin
No Red Skull re-mach for Cap.
Many bad/Forgettable villains
No Scarlet Witch and/or Vision movie
No more Hulk solo movies
Captain Marvel
Many missed opportunities.

This is one of the few times I agree with Zarius





I really enjoyed pretty much every MCU movie I saw in theaters, except for Thor 2 and Captain Marvel. I liked most of Doctor Strange but a lot of it just wasn't what I wanted from a movie about the character, after coming to love the way he was portrayed in his early comics (Benedict Cumberbatch was just not the right dude for the job, in my opinion).

And it's not that I don't love different takes on characters; I like new iterations of iconic figures that change a few things at a time in order to examine the character as a whole in a new light. I like the MCU's Peter Parker/Spider-Man for the most part but I recognize that making him Iron Man Jr. is a significant departure from the comics, but I don't need the movies to be EXACTLY like the comics. The comics are still out there.

I enjoyed Endgame a lot when I saw it in the theater, but now having re-watched it a couple times I gotta say, the inability of the directors and the writers to agree on how the fvck time travel is supposed to work in-universe is infuriating. It kinda ruins the whole thing, the phrase "sh!t the bed" comes to mind.

All that said, I'm still pretty curious about The Eternals, I'm vaguely interested in Black Widow, and I'm pretty excited about Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings, the MCU Spider-Man 3, Thor: Love and Thunder, Black Panther 2, and Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness. And I'll definitely show-up for a Fantastic Four MCU movie, but I'll have strong opinions about that so we'll see how it goes.