Protests in Cuba
 

Cuba currently experiences protests among angry citizens.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-57799852

Man, what a crazy situation.

-President of Cuba, Miguel Díaz-Canel, ordering his followers to combat protestors in the streets, who he claims are undercover Americans trying to destabilize their country.

Cuba always blames the USA for everything. The funniest time was when Cuban high jumper Javier Sotomayor was suspended for doping and blamed it on the CIA.

https://www.rediff.com/sports/1999/aug/07soto.htm

Most funny thing, that even to this days, there are some online commies who think that Cuba is a perfect socialist country.

The propaganda wing of the left (AKA the media) is trying to paint the whole situation like it's solely about Trump's sanctions and a lack of COVID vaccines. Not communism at all. And Biden is very quiet.

They probably think Haiti's President being killed was Trumps fault too.

The truth is that Cuba used to be backed up by the Soviet Union until 1991. Ever since the dissolution of the Soviet Union, the economy of Cuba has experienced crisis.

Its most likely the same people who think that Cuba is a prosperous country (or on its way to prosperity), despite low-key considering Castro as just another dictator.

To put it simply - any stupidity those people spout is expected and should be ignored.

Or better - archived until time comes up to wipe their faces with their own arguments and ideology and destroy their movement.

It's really interesting. The president put out a call from the Coast Guard to tell the Cuban refugees fleeing communism that if any boats are caught approaching the US, they will be promptly brought back to Cuba. Yet... if you're illegally cross the US-Mexican border, it's just catch and release again.

I wonder what the difference is? One side is probably going to vote Democrat.

I guess, people at the cost have more money and influence and will rise a big stink about bunch of immigrants crawling around.

And people who go through Mexican borders usually end up in Republican states, which can be used to destabilize local situation in favor of demRATS.

Cuba was America's backyard, before the revolation led by Castro and Che Guevara, the most wealth created in Cuba was going to rich people's pocket who owns companies in Cuba and most of them are Americans. Normal people in Cuba can't share the economy, that's why Castro and Che Guevara success in the revolation.

You know what, if Cuba was still America's backyard, they will describe the protestors as just a bunch of thugs, they are not fighting for their "freedom". That was how they described Carstro in a nagitive view about his "protest".

That's the American and British double standard, and the narrative when bad things happened in countries if the country do not want to listen to American. It's not because America is freedom and democracy. It's because American is capitalism. They want share benifit from the country, like they did in Cuba decades ago.

American is the No.1 country in the world. And all western conntries are better than other countries in the world because they went through industrial revolutions. That makes vast productivity, so they can compete and then defeat other countries in markets, if some countries refuse to make trade, like China, because though it was backward but it's big so it was self-sufficient, Westerns use their advance weapon and make you compromise, sign unfair treaty. Again like I said multiple times they can earn big money on other countries territories.

So because Western countries have their primitive accumulation, their people can share benifit too. For instance, if you work at TWININGS tea company(I make this example just because I am drinking it now) in London, you get a decent paying, and you are thinking about vacation on beautiful island. Because behind this, maybe you get benifits from tea growers in Darjeeling in India, they work harder but pay less. So since life improved, then westerners can talk about freedom and democracy. That's just how things work, at the early stage of industry revolution, child labourers worked at a very terrible working environment and they had no such thing as freedom and democracy.

But you see Cuba is a very small country, they have not their primitive accumulation and they don't own very advance technologies. Even those developed countries like Japan and South Korean see how their people burden at work cause they have no primitive accumulation. Freedom and democracy is luxurious, they are not free. Only when the country develop to a quality level, then there will be better life. Foreigner interference arousing protests will only make the country a lot worse, cause American politicians don't care about Cuba people's lives, they just care about their own goods, and they are good at using innocent people's goodwill that thinking they are helping the Cuba people but in fact they are doing it in a opposite way.

I think people say CIA not involving the protest are naive. Cuba is the most nearest country to America, and America is the No.1 foreign interference country in the world. They have 800 militaries bases overseas, they have the largest military budget in the world and equal the sum of China, India, Russia, UK, Saudi Arabia, Germany, France, Japan, South Korea, Italy and Australia. They involved Korean War, Vietnam War, Gulf War, Iraq, Syria, etc. Bringing "peace and freedom" by bombing other countries and killing civilians and refugees boys drown on a boat escape from the chaos made by US. Let's face the story on another side and stop helping the narritive againist countries demonized by your media. It's literally the same narritive against Iran, Iraq, Syria, China, Hong Kong China, Xinjiang China, etc.

I hope I show things in a different perspective, I am not saying you have to believe my opinion, but I want people see things from the essence, if you are interesting, I recommand Oliver Stone's "The untold history of the united states", and some youtube channels I know like Cyrus Janssen, Daniel Dumbrill, Barrett. I really appreciate that cause I do feel you guys are misguided and judge countries by tags. It's not a binary world. We are the not that different and we share the same value.

Cuba's people don't even care about their own citizen's lives....

On Floyd's death, or on the capitol hill female who shot dead, I can say the same on America: American don't even care about their own citizen's lives....

But you know America and Cuba are different right? In America this can be explained but Cuba is just pure evil? First impression controls.

I hope you're being sarcastic. Because those are two of the worst possible examples you could give to prove your point, for very easy reasoning.

For the female I think It’s a bad example, cause it’s basically a riot. But for Floyd I don’t get it. I think it’s a good example to show how “bad” human rights are in the US and a good sample to demonize how terrible a country is if we use the same standard to report news like how media demonize Cuba.

You do realize there were riots for George Floyd's death for months, right?

Floyd's death was one of the few elements that completely tore America up in 2021. Probably the most raucous event aside from the pandemic. You must have a very blurred, outside perspective on the situation.

That's the politics to you.
Also, Castro didn't have people's interest in mind, so he is not better than American government. One might say he is even worse, because, whereas American government sometimes forced to listen to people, Castro could just kill everyone he was disagreeing with and no-one would be able to anything about it.
Try to tell me that how things work in the modern US, I dare you.

And what about Communist countries, which colonized and used other nations?
There is no real difference between Capitalism and Communism approach to "lesser" nations. And you attempt to paint Capitalism as a root of colonization is hilariously ignorant and uneducated, since Colonization had happened under every political model possible throughout history of humanity.

Strong dominates the weak. That's how it works. Trying to paint it as inherent flaw of Capitalism is dumb, since all other regimes in the world did the same, even before Capitalism was a thing.

Also, its not Westerners fault that other countries failed to modernize and stuck in the middle ages. If positions were reversed and somehow China or Africa were to become industrial superpowers compared to European outdated civilizations, they would undoubtedly colonized Europe and we would have studied books about "inhuman China colonizers".
Not that the real world China is far away from that title, given how they treat other nations on their own territory or even their own people.

I am not sure what are you trying to say here.

Cuba's problem were created by their own government, which used ineffective Soviet economic model and led country to ruin. US sanctions, didn't make situation better, but the main fault lies at Cuban dictatorship.

They were the ones who used ineffective economic model and relied too much on Soviet Union as a trade partner. Much like Soviet Union relied on the West in 70-80s. In both cases this overreliance on foreign help led both countries to ruin.

Yes, yes, CIA is at fault everywhere.

While no doubt, that US special forces monitor and probably somewhat interfere in the Cuban events, not that they need to do much given pathetic state of the country, this narrative smells of ******** conspiracy theories, about "Communist countries failing, because, evil CIA ruined them". And this approach is something, that no serious person should entertain.

You really did not. Because, your narrative is a run of the mill typical commie nonsense. It misinterprets and misrepresents facts and presents biased and ignorant view of history, politics and economy.

Yes, world is more complex than binary view, but acting like US and Capitalism are "evil" is just plain childish nonsense.

Do you even know what had happened in 2020 in US?
Are you trolling or just THAT massively ignorant?
So, death of some random person is enough reasons to start riots and burning cities?
What kind of response you expect from people?

Also, Cuba's government is a dictatorship, they don't take kindly to citizens protests and, if someone would have tried to pull out BLM **** in Cuba, I am fairly sure, there would be a lot more dead people on the island all over sudden.
So, this your difference between US and Cuba and, yes, Cuba, doesn't look favorable in this comparison. Stop drinking commie, cool-aid, pal.

I'm not calling that poster out by any means, but their current location says theyre in China, so of course theyre going to say America is worse than Cuba.

That explains a lot. :lol:

Good receipt how to ward of types like this: post "Tiananmen square massacre" and see them folding away like paper tigers they are.

Black Lives Matter blames US, praises Cuban regime, social media erupts
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bla...dia-erupts.amp

You seriously cant make this sh*t up. They cry about injustice in the States but when Cuba's people are doing the same thing, BLM sides with the govt? What kind of ass backwards logic is this?

As if normal people needed any further prove that BLM is a commie organization.

But honestly, if that won't convince people that BLM is a two-faced cult, which cares little about their proposed goals, justice and democracy, I don't know what else could do. When they start killing White people on the streets for supposed crime of being "in the wrong neighborhood"?

America is the no.1 country in the world, no doubt America is a better country than Cuba. I personally admire a lot of aspects of America. And I know a lot of Cuban baseball players escape from Cuba to gain a better life. I happened to watch a lot of baseball games during college, like Puig the Dodger player at the time. And you don’t believe it I watched most Orioles games cos a Taiwan pitcher Chen weiting played there, I bought some caps of Orioles from New Era if you care since you are from Maryland. And Florida have many Cuban seeking a better because you earn more even washing dishes. I am not only knowing some America history but inspired by it in a lot of ways, way more than what Cuba show to me.

Just like Anakin Skywalker, having strong force is a double-edged sword. America does did a lot of foreign interferences overseas easily cuz they had that power and that was for their own interests. They even monitored their own European allies leaders like France and German. So why they have no impact on the Cuba protest. Again somehow I still recommend you see Oliver Stone’s “the untold story of the US”. The really tell a lot of things did by America that is “dark”.

What I really want to say is. Unlike strong countries like the western countries. Countries like Cuba can’t endure or take a risk of having massive protests like this. Making a country to ashes will not making Cuban people’s lives better, see how how Syria is becoming when opposition trying to take over the country and how many tragedies happen to refugees, and how Iraq have so many car bombs after the war kill tens of thousands of innocent people without solid evidence that they have massive killing weapons. They are all countries no better than the US, but these things only make the countries worse. The way is to take a progress is take things step by step. Rome is not built in a single day. They just can’t have the same life qualities of western countries right now. But some people may say, come on, they just want to speak out, they are not gonna start a war. Again, things will out of control if they don’t start controlling it, America can control situations like Wisconsin burning buildings, Cuba can’t. Do you see how Arab Spring works, the westerners are glad seeing Arabic people seeking freedom and democracy, but ten years later what progress them make, Cario people still have no improvement of their life quality. Actually the Arab Spring cause the big damage of Syria.

Hope I get your point right, sorry I am not a good English speaker here. See, if you see the protests in Cuba you will have the same thing, nobody will argue that not everybody involving the protests right? So the silent ones, their voices are not heard, if we sit and talk to them, maybe they support their government just want their normal lives back so them can do business, go to work. They own not much wealth but they just want peaceful. BBCs will not report those people’s voice, they just put a section title “there is no freedom” and acts like it’s the voice of all Cuban.

As a Chinese, I am not denying what you said, but comparing to Cuba that is the same thing, sure there are unhappy people, every countries have, America, Yellow Jackets in France, Cuba and true China too.

Again I want to emphasize what my saying is, I am not saying America is a bad countries because of these bad things happens, and America is a great country in many ways. What I want say is every country have bad things, when it comes to countries like Cuba, Iran, Russian, and my country China, it’s demonized. But it is not true from my perspective, and I see how western medias fame my country and believe it or not I didn’t like my country in my teenager years and I approved my country after that. Because I just thought Western is better, and how China are backward and I see the very surface like freedom and democratic, how freely they can criticize their governments. Then I read some books like The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith and The Crowd: A Study of the Popular Mind and see how things really work. You see every countries are different, and China is really poor and you could see tall buildings in Manhattan NY100 years ago but China are still very poor and they have a little industry, and culture, the geographical position, the land, all are different so we just can’t have things like wealth countries. So America’s path and ways of doing things won’t work in other countries, and a lot of them just turned to chaos and tragedies. I think it’s hard to let you understand my mind cuz the cultures are so different and maybe people just will think that how strong China communism propaganda is and they finally brainwashed me if the stereotypes are strong. Actually China is a socialism country and it is officially claimed and it’s a form that learn a lot from Capitalism. And I don’t hostile on Capitalism countries either, primitive accumulation is a true fact but that doesn’t mean I hostile on western countries.

I have some youtube channels I really want to share, even if people think I am talking ****, maybe people can watch those so people can make another clue how stupid and brainwashed I am. These are all foreigners live or lived in China:
American expat now live in Vancouver: Cyrus Janssen
Daniel Dumbrill, I think he is a Canadian citizen.
Gweilo 60, also a Canadian living in China for 18 years now
Lee and Oli “Barrett” British father and son living in China too
“Jayoe Nation” Matt from Detoit America


It is more of a long thread than a simple apply now. And much of it is unrelated to this apply. Forgive me.

Thing is, Cuba is in such shitstate, that another revolution or whatever you call it, will not make life of people there significantly worse. They are basically slaves of the government and Castro family, working for minimum wages.

"Do no worse" won't work there, because, Cuban leaders won't make any reforms, while they can mooch of Cuban people and pocket money.

And even if they, by some miracle, decide to do democratic reforms, it will be a colossal shock for the whole country and its people, resulting in a lot of people losing their jobs, rising crime rates and the like.

All in all, there is no "harmless" road, which won't hurt Cuba, but in one scenario they will continue to live with a murderous dictatorial regime, which absolutely won't be interested in making people's life better, in another Cubans have chance to build a better country in some future.

Are you seriously comparing bunch of thugs burning and looting shops, because, they were angry with one police officer and people protesting against murderous regime, which hold control over country for decades?

Do you understand why most people here, won't take you seriously?

First, China is Socialist only on paper.
Its basically a Fascist country at this point (for very basic definition of Fascism as merger between state and corporations). Maybe an Oligarchy, though in the end it is a run of the mill tyranny, with leader and his cronies on top and the rest of the country following their orders.
Whatever this shitshow calls itself, Communism, Socialism, Nazism, Fascism, makes no different - it is still a pile of stinky ****.

You are just the most emotional man in this forum and I already knew that for other political topics, I knew I will somehow gain fire on you in the first place. l am not sure if I want to reply, you basically just tag me a commie or a brainwashed one and have a bias before typing, ironically I thought maybe some American will be harsh on me, and I know them are totally disagree with me but they at least talking about topic not on me personally.

I don’t want to waste time, Just one point US ships fleeting and planes flying around China and China doesn’t fleeting around the US, and China are the most threat in the world. It’s not conspiracy theory, cuz China is just pure evil though they are not involving warfare in decades. And CIA involving Cuba is a conspiracy theory though their history of foreigner interferences.

Peace and clam, I am not smart enough to convince you anything, all I can give is reading more books by really smart people like Adam Smith,
Ray Dalio, Yuval Noah Harari. And watch the “CIA” documentary made by Oliver Stone. Maybe you will be the CIA conspiracy theorist too.

You are so like tagging me I thought you will be a more dictator than Castro.

Anyway Russia is a good country, Tolstoy and director Andrei Tarkovsky

So sad we just can’t talk peacefully, I live in China and I know my country is not what you defined.

There are not perfect country in the world.

All states from ancient times to modern days engaged in underhanded tactics. And, yes, it is obvious that USA spies on China, much like China spies on USA and its obvious that all strong countries are trying to assert their influence on the other countries.

But its how politics work - strong try to assert domination over weak. And there is no difference in this case, between Democratic state or Tyranny.

Thing is, what do we have as a result - for all its underhanded tactics and **** that US did, they still were able to build one of the most peaceful, advanced and safe societies in the world. Something that none of Communist countries were able to do.

It doesn't excuse staged revolutions, support of absolute bastards like various Asian and African dictators, but that's how the world is - you have good things and bad things. There is virtually no big community of people of the world, which haven't did something bad towards their neighbors.

So what? Should we discard all achievements of the West, just, because, those countries did some ****, without consent of most of its citizens? Or we should take the good, take lessons from bad and discard and advance forward to the better future?

We already had examples, when people tried to tear down old societies and orders and build a new ones, which should lead to utopia and equality. None of those attempts had worked and they led only to unimaginable death and destruction. At this point it should be obvious that total destruction and rejection of the past is not the way to go.

So, the best way forward is acknowledge past mistakes and don't repeat and hold people who did them responsible.

I respect China history, though I absolutely despise what this country has become under Communist leadership, because, it doesn't lead anyone to greatness. Its just senseless loss of life and resources. But, I can say the same about Russia.

And what is your country?
A very specific form of Socialism, where all power concentrated in the hands of one single man, with the help of local richmen, who own various semi-private corporations and capitalist economic system? :lol:

Any attempt to convince people that China is Socialist is as successful as trying to convince that green giraffes are a thing.

I am not accusing America. All I am saying is when topics to countries like China and Cuba are demonized. I am talking about America a lot because cuz I am saying all countries have their bad things but when it comes Cuba or others it is demonized. That’s my understanding, you see America and Canada did bad things on natives, but you won’t define that as Nazi. it’s like America can have dirts and also good drawings on a paper but when you define Cuba or China it’s like only dirts. That’s your definition. Which is fine since it’s endless and let’s end this talk.

And I am a Chinese btw.

Actually Jack Ma’s Ant Groups is put a stop due to them just want take money from normal people in China. Which I see you will smell it as another piece of proof of dictatorship.

You don't need to demonize totalitarian state with complete control over their citizens, social credit system and genocide as the side dish.

Also, there is a difference between US, Canada and China - US and Canada were able to built wealthy safe nations and apologized for their crimes.

Had China did the same? Have Xi apologized for the Tibet? Taiwan? Millions of killed in the wake of civil war and revolution?

Wei Yen Chen or whatever his name was? I remember fondly. He was good for about a year then fell off the map.

Yes, Chen Wei Yin(Maybe your spelling is right too cuz there are types of pingyin), so many years I mistake the name with the Taiwanese TV star:D, if I remember right MLB have a 4 days rotation for start pitchers but in taiwan it is 5 days? one of the reason he fell off.

At that time Manning Machado is my favourite player, he was in Dodgers last time I saw. Big temp when in Orioles had "fights" with that Oakland star player.

MLB is for hitters not for pitchers from my view as a not long term game watcher, even top pitchers will beat up in 2, 3 innings. Bud Norris, Tillman and Chen they all had that times.

Yeah over here the names are first and last, not last and first.

Anyone here ever been to Cuba? I have, would go back again.

Don't go back. Leo told me that's where he plans on feeding you your own skin.....

Cuidado dude.