When did The Simpsons get bad?
 

I think we all can agree that The Simpsons don't have the same quality as they did back in the 90s.

Why did this happen? Gonna speculate changes in the writing staff combined with the show being on air for such long time resulting in the creativity tank running dry.

But what's the point where The Simpsons became a bad show?

A lot of people say that the 1997 episode The Principal and the Pauper was the turning point/jumping of the shark moment, but I don't think I agree with that. I was still enjoying The Simpsons up until 2003 or so. The early 2000s seasons certainly felt "different" from classic Simpsons seasons, but I definitely enjoyed the episodes still. Even if there were less great episodes on average.

Around the mid-2000s, I stopped watching The Simpsons. And didn't even watch the movie. Tbh that's more or less when icbrgna noticing online criticism for The Simpsons. Which surprised me a bit.

Anyway around 2009 or 2010 I saw a few episodes of the latest season... and they weren't good. One was about ipods, which were called mipods on the show. Another one was about Homer inviting a Muslim couple over for dinner and then accusing them of being terrorists or something? Neither episode was funny and just seemed... off in comparison to The Simpsons I grew up watching.

So I'm guessing somewhere around 2004-2009 the show lost a ton of quality.

What do you think?

I personally stopped caring about this show about around seasons 9-10. ( 1997-1998 )

If it's like most other places on the internet, the overwhelming answer you will get is season 9-10.

I tend to agree with this myself. I think season 9 is when the decline began, and the show's gotten worse, and worse, and now it's just unwatchable. Sometimes people will tell me, "Oh, but the Lego episode is funny!" or "Hey, the episode that parodies 24 is pretty hilarious!" but.......meh. I don't...really care about those premises once I read about them because they're just gimmicks, gimmicks meant to mask the poor overall quality of the show now.

On another note, it doesn't help that the show used to be a biting social commentary in the 90s, and has now been reduced to the writers agreeing that Apu is a 'bad character' rather than satirizing the situation in a clever way, like how the original seasons likely would have.

Is that the Flsncrest Enterprise episode season? I liked that one.

I believe so.

I don't hate season 9 as much as some do, though I think this the pinpoint of when the writing began to get lazier, and the show was losing steam.

Well I don't think the series got bad overnight. So perhaps it was around the late 90s where the first signs of decline began showing. But took some years for it to hit rock bottom.

When I was a kid my brother taped every single Simpsons episode he caught on TV. We had about 25 VHS tapes with Simpsons alone. But our VHS players died over a decade ago, so it's been so long since I've marathoned the first 12 or 13 seasons.

I fully agree with Season 9 being the last great one. Even then, it's on the decline, but still great.

I can watch those first 9 seasons for the rest of my life. They're so good! And the drop-off is easily noticeable around that time period, but I can still occasionally enjoy episodes from beyond season 9.

Every couple of years or so, you hear a rumor of The Simpsons finally getting cancelled but it never happens.

Even if it doesn't get very high ratings nowadays, I bet the series is living off its brand name recognition at this point and some people who have been huge fans since the 90s probably still stick around out of habit.

Kinda like a lot of the WWE fans left are people who grew up with it in the 80s and 90s and have hated it since 2001 for the most part, but yet keep on watching it out of habit.

Basically around the time of post WM 17 and the company changing its name to WWE

I think the Fake Skinner episode was the sign that things were heading south, but I still liked several episodes that came out in the subsequent Seasons. It got "zanier", which was far from what the show was originally created to be, but there were still a few good episodes.

I'd say early-2000s is when it got irredeemably bad. They very blatantly started copying Family Guy's humor, and I actually love Family Guy more than most people but The Simpsons isn't that, and shouldn't be that. All the main characters got Flanderized, and nobody had any depth anymore.

Once they had to start using the "sliding timeline" to dance around the fact that the show had been on TV too long, it started getting really bad. The older episodes about Young Homer and Marge in the 70s and 80s were classics, but the newer ones where they were young in the 90s and 2000s were just godawful. Then they decided to just stop doing Present-Day stories seemingly altogether, and fell in love with the Future Timeline stuff where Milhouse was a zombie and whatever other horse sh*t. There's a whole fleshed-out timeline with the Future Simpsons now and it's f*cking terrible.

They also just started blatantly sucking off celebrities at one point, and it was really unbearable. That Lady Gaga episode is one of the worst episodes of TV ever made, period.

The movie was another problem. They waited way too long to do it - anytime before 1995 was the right time, and anytime after that was past the point of anyone caring about it - and it wasn't even very good. What should have been the crowning moment of the entire Simpsons saga ended up being just one more reminder that it had long outstayed its welcome. Who even remembers the movie, or what it was about? All anyone remembers is the stupid Spider-Pig gag, and that's because both Then and Now it's all the commercials talked about. The movie isn't "bad", it's just... there. It's like drinking flat Ginger ale, it goes right through you and leaves no impression at all.

I empathize with the writers, as they always said part of why they'd never done a movie sooner was because they couldn't figure out what it would even be about... but the movie they made only hammered home that, yeah, they REALLY had no idea what the movie should be about.

Realistically, it probably should have ended right around the year 2000 and had the movie come out then as the big send-off.

I think the Disney buyout has given it new life, as crazy as that is. I remember reading that it was one of the top-viewed programs when Disney+ launched and I heard the showrunner say that this "season" of Simpsons has more content than any other one, if you include the shorts and specials they've been doing.
I wonder how well merchandise does these days.

I can see Simpsons sticking around for quite a while longer. Maybe even becoming like Mickey Mouse and his crew, over time, popping up in one form or another, even if the show, as we know it, morphs or goes away.

For me, it will be hard to recognize it once the main voice actors are gone. I don't watch all the new episodes, but I can enjoy them on some level when I do tune in, because the the characters still feel relatively intact, due to the great voice work.

Around season 3, when they shifted from Bart to Homer is when the shows soul was compromised for cheap laughs, which kept détériorating over time, you can argue that happened in S9/10 but it was when the show shifted focus that it was one inevitable mthat everyone would become parodies of themselves

This brings up another question...

What was the first ever Simpsons episode with a celebrity guest star that wasn't good?

I remember disliking the Mel Gibson episode. That was the first episode of season 11, it seems.

I thought WWE was fine right up until 2008 when they officially went PG, and again from 2015 through to 2019. I've never developed a 'second wind' with The Simpsons, even the ones people tell me are a 'return to form' feel laboured and tired.

For me, the show ended with the Frank Grimes story in season eight. Most of the show had wrapped up whatever passed for loose threads by that point.

Another terrible opinion from you. Unbelievable...

Eh, the sliding timeline. Like idk... Just stop making flashback Homer and Marge episodes then.

Celebrities playing themselves instead of being guest voice actors.

All these teen related problems and fads that are mostly happening to teens but are instead happening to Bart and Lisa since the show doesn't have any teens to explore these issues.

The main thing is, Simpsons uses to criticize the establishment, now they are the establishment. I mean they used to poke fun at Clinton and Bush equally, but I don't recall Obama ever being on that show.

Maybe they should do teen/adult Bart and Lisa eps but taking place in modern day so they don't have to do all the stupid robot and alien future gags.

The newer episodes where all the black characters are now voiced by "authentic black people" are very annoying. We've heard what Carl and Dr. Hibbert and Lou sound like for 30+ years, and now they sound completely different and it's VERY noticeable and very annoying.

I'm only ever half-watching it anymore when it's on, and suddenly I'll hear a voice I don't recognize, so I'll look up from my reading like "Who's that?" And it'll turn out to be Carl or Dr. Hibbert, and I'm just like, "Oh, Jesus." :roll: It's every bit as bad as when the FW TMNT had fill-in VAs that sounded nothing at all like the previous VAs. They're not even close.

Marge is definitely gonna sound a lot different very soon, if the show stays on. Julie Kavner is 71, if you've seen her these days she definitely looks like she's not gonna be around much longer (as morbid as that is to say, I'm just being honest), and you can already hear it in her voice acting. Marge SOUNDS like she's 70-something, all of a sudden, and it's almost as distracting as the blatantly-wrong voices coming out of the other characters.

So if the show stays on another few years, we're gonna be hearing a new Marge pretty soon. I kinda hope they just stop before it gets to that point. Replacing background characters with bad replacements is one thing, but you can't/shouldn't do that with the main cast. Why force people to accept that just to keep the show on the air? Everybody hates the show now anyway, nobody wants to watch it with FAKE Simpsons VAs playing the main family members. Once you even have to think about replacing Marge, or Homer, or ANY of them, just pull the f*cking plug.

There was a point where more and more episodes became about Lisa. When did that happen again, exactly? I no longer remember. I never liked them making Lisa a vegetarian.

Probably when the entire writing staff started to skew Hard Left.

It's ironic that the writers love using Lisa as the way to scold the audience for having the "wrong" beliefs, given that she's by far the most hated character in the main cast now BECAUSE of that. People used to empathize with Lisa somewhat, but now she's just insufferable and nobody likes her or feels bad for her at all.

Just goes to show you how out of touch the writers are with the people who actually watch the show.

Around the late 90s, significant changes to the Simpsons writing staff were made. Some went on to work on Futurama, the newest Matt Groening series, and I believe one writer even died around that time as well. Clearly the replacements they found for them just weren't as good.

Yes, Lisa was a good voice of reason in the early days. The most normal and smartest person in the family, but she wasn't insufferable nor did she force her views on you. Lisa was simply the girl who was into playing the saxophone and listening to jazz.

As for the voice actors, it's kinda funny because you'd think they'd be easy to replace. Ask people irl if they can impersonate any cartoon characters, and there's always a Simpsons character or two they can impersonate. But I guess we just grow attached to their original VAs. Especially since they have been voicing them since day one.

I still enjoyed the series up to season 20, personally I think it should have been cancelled then and had more movies every 3-5 years after the first.

I would say it's something of a gradual decline, which is why you may get different answers but many people will state Principal and the Pauper as the start of it. I'm not sure that episode is bad enough or that season 9 as a whole is bad enough to qualify it as the start of the show being generally bad, but the fact that the show was willing to contradict everything that had been built up about one of the most important supporting characters was no doubt a sign that they didn't really care anymore.

If we have to go with the first season that contained mostly bad episodes, it's season 11.

1. Beyond Blunderdome
2. Brother's Little Helper
3. Hello Gutter, Hello Fadder
4. Eight Misbehavin
5. Little Big Mom
6. Saddlesore Galactica
7. Missionary: Impossible
8. Pygmoelian
9. Bart to the Future
10. Kill the Alligator and Run
11. Behind the Laughter

And if nothing else, season 11 is also responsible for the idiotic "Sneed Feed and Seed" meme. I know people making a stupid meme doesn't really make the episode itself bad, but still.

They need to do something special while the Simpson family voice actors are still around, imo.

Can’t they get Conan back to write a special? Or some other classic writers for one last send off? Obviously the show wouldn’t go away, but it could be a spritual finale, in a sense. A final movie to end the show as we know it.

Probably too late and I should just enjoy my 9+ seasons. Just saying, it’d be nice.

For me, it’s interesting to think of how they may reboot the show at some point. It feels inevitable in a way. I suppose they could keep the same format and slowly morph over time. But what if they decided it needed a fresh coat of paint, and the main voice actors were gone - what would they do?
I’m not saying it’d be good, but I’m curious what it would or could be.

I never know what any episodes of any TV show were called, so I'd appreciate some clarification as to which episodes those actually were, neatoman. Titles don't tell me anything. I literally have never even seen any of those titles before except for "Behind the Laughter". I couldn't even tell you what even one of those episodes were about, even though I no doubt have seen every single one of them a hundred times.

I never watched Friends, but I adore their naming conceit. Having every episode be named "The One Where..." and then whatever happened in the episode, was brilliant because realistically that's how every human being discusses TV shows.

For example, literally nobody ever calls the one Simpsons episode "The Principal and the Pauper" when discussing it. They call it "The one where we found out Skinner wasn't Skinner", or some similar variant. Therefore, that's its real title no matter what it says on paper.

Especially since The Simpsons would never tell you the title of the episode you were watching. You actually need to go check The Simpsons wiki episode list to know the names of its episodes.

Seinfeld and Curb Your Enthusiasm are very straight forward and simple with their episode titles. They are usually only two or three words long and start with "The". The Contest, The Comeback, The Dog, The Marine Biologist, The Chinese Restaurant, etc.

Even if Seinfeld doesn't tell you the titles of its episodes at the beginning, you can pretty much guess which episode it is as soon as you see someone name dropping it. With The Simpsons, that's not always so easy.

It's funny how that one early episode was called 'Bart gets hit by a car' and we actually see the title pop up. I think it's the only episode that ever showed a title. Like it either slipped, or someone decided to try it and someone else was like 'nah, that's stupid. Don't do it again'.

I never noticed that. Neat little price of trivia.

I'm terrible about sticking with shows even though the quality has tanked in hopes a new episode will reclaim its former glory. Angela and I still watch Simpsons every week and are often disappointed...especially if it's a Lisa-centric episode. Lisa sucks and her episodes suck and more and more episodes center around her.

My wife and I used to watch Law and Order: SVU together but she dropped off because she has better things to do and isn't a masochist. I'll occasionally tell her the plot of episodes that I feel either are a return to form, or, more often than not, are endemic of why she dropped of in the first place. I also still catch the resurrected Law and Order and the other spin-off Organized Crime.

I also still watch SNL each week. It's hit or miss but most weeks there's a sketch or two that make me smile.

I'm not sure if they do it anymore in this new HD era, but I seem to recall older episodes would show have the title in the ending credits. Like 'whatever episode title was written by' or whatever, so that was at least one way to know the titles.

Now that I think about it, I know a lot of episode names, but can’t recall how. Maybe just from discussing it online.

Edit: oh yeah, I guess they were on the dvds.

That also made it easier LOL

One thing I found odd is, I know the script reads 'annoyed grunt' when Dan is supposed to say 'd'oh!!' but 'annoyed grunt' was in some of the titles even when it was obvious the title was meant to be something that rhymes with 'd'oh and it just ruins it, lol.

It's even stupider because it takes a lot more time and energy to type "Annoyed Grunt" than "D'oh". Once "D'oh" became part of the public consciousness the scriptwriters should have followed suit and just started typing it in the scripts as "D'oh". Yet as far as I'm aware, they still officially write it as "Annoyed Grunt". For no f*cking reason.

Goes to show you what kind of idiots we're dealing with, here.

I bet they still type "Disgruntled Murmur" in the scripts for Marge, instead of "Mmmrrrrr" or whatever. Because they're assholes.

Never for me. There was a couple seasons around the late 2000s I thought it hit a slump but I don’t remember the episodes.

I don’t think Lisa is used to scold the audience. I actually think she became more likable. Bart was always the “cool” one but because Lisa is the “nerd” I can see more people relating to her now.

I guess the major difference between the first half of the series and now is the tone is a little more cute...but it was never THAT mature. Except maybe the Sideshow Bob and Halloween episodes.

Also I mentioned it before in some other Simpsons discussion but the art and animation nowadays is so much better. Even compared to the 2000s. It’s just so nice to watch.

I know a lot cartoon’s animation improves over time but it’s very apparent in The Simpsons. It’s kinda jarring seeing early reruns.

I want whatever you're smoking.

It's overproduced and souless.

You've never seen an early episode.

I'm not really qualified to answer this. By the time the Simpsons movie came out, I was already largely tuned out to it. Not because I was soured over it but just because... well, I don't know. Just wasn't "must see TV" to me anymore. I guess I figured someday I'd come back to it and catch up. I think that was always my plan until everywhere I turned was people saying it just turned to sh**.

That said, there was a certain magical quality to it early on. It struck me as a kid that it seemed to bother adults that there was a cartoon that was "adult" yet kids were loving. Which, of course, made it all the more provocative to check out. All of my friends did.

Huh. In a funny way, maybe Simpsons replaced TMNT for a patch in time. For my particular corner of the PNW. We moved on of course, but it was definitely a thing. Definitely when we were full-on doing Simpsons, I don't know if we were comparing TMNT toys anymore.

No if it was still considered great by the majority nobody would be complaining the art and animation looked too nice. That’s just not a thing. That’s totally separate from the quality of the writing anyway.

I’ve been watching since about the very beginning. Not the Tracy Ullman shorts but when it was a full show. A friend from school got me into it. I have the old First Season DVD set but never kept up.

Unless you’re talking about the difference in art/animation. There’s clearly a major difference. There was for Family Guy too. That also looks better now but I like The Simpsons look more.

I understand when shows first start they’re not entirely fleshed out yet. Even live action sitcoms have a lower budget feel to them and basic sets. I’m not holding it against cartoons.

Ah, a fellow SVU fan.

I think the show was mostly great (although had its bad episodes even early on), and then Stabler left in season 12. The decline began there, but I think it became unwatchable in season 17. Up until then, there were at least watchable/quality episodes even amongst the muck. I think it's gotten worse and worse, similar to The Simpsons. It's a shadow of its former self.

I mean, I wouldn't say he's completely wrong. I think the show was a lot more endearing when Bart was the breakout character because it had the more wholesome moments that you don't get in subsequent seasons. And yes, seasons 4-8 are funny as hell but Bart's facetime was when I think there were some very special moments. And honestly while Homer was funnier but other times, he was obnoxious.

It's too late to give a proper send off to the Simpsons now. Key VAs have been replaced, Marge doesn't sound like Marge anymore, most characters charm have been compromised. It was already too late for the shoes 20th season and who knows if it'll reach its 40th. It'll be canceled one of these days and go out on a whimper. Disney buying Fox meant they were going to milk that dry cow even further since it's the most iconic thing Fox owned, they weren't going to gracefully cancel the show right after getting it even it would've been for the best.
We'll get tons of Simpsons stuff the next few years and a second movie for sure. And you can be sure that if Lisa or Marges VA dies first they'll be replaced, and no one will make a big deal out of it because they've already replaced iconic roles and no one cares enough about new Simpsons enough to make it a big deal. The show will continue getting worse and worse until it dies.

Exactly, that's when the soul of the show was compromised and the seeds to it becoming a parody of itself and would become were planted.
When it was about Bart it was more realistic as far as the adventures went, the characters had wilder designs and even the trees were purple. It had soul.

When they changed to Homer being the focus sure it became funnier but st the expense of the characters, homer be some dumber every season, Simpsons started getting wilder stories like Homer going to space and characters started becoming one note with their specific traits.

We didn't care because it was funny at the time but if you see what people complain about it's for those exact reasons. But when you have show that never ends well you run out of ideas so you keep exaggerating those things. The staff did leave for Futurama but it was likely also because they needed something fresh to continue doing quality work.

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I plan to rewatch everything Simpsons one day. It's a fair point that we judge a show we haven't watched in nearly two decades.
I doubt it's good based on what I've seen but i think it just might be "decent enough" which is why some people still watch and defend it. Characters were flanderized long ago, storylines had to get crazier since they've done everything already and other shows stepped up the game but the Simpsons might not be amazing but decent enough for people to watch. I'll confirm one day I watch through everything, it's easy to hate on a show you stopped watching.

All shows deserve a fair unbiased watch, well except the later part of the arrowverse, **** that ****.