Would a Turtle wearing a green bandana work?
 

We never had a Turtle with a green bandana for the obvious reason it would blend in too much with their skin tones, but I wonder.

We have the main 4 Turtles:

Leo = blue
Raph = red
Mike = orange
Don = purple

Slash: Black

Next Mutation Venus: Light Blue

Jennika: Yellow.


They used up all the obvious colors but green. I wonder if it would ever work or happen one day.

Lita and the 3 weasels all had pink bandanas too.

Or they could just all wear red like they were meant to... just a thought.

Green could work, technically, but sounds about as exciting as wearing a shirt that matches your flesh tone.

Green could work, As long as its a different shade of green.

Red. Black. Or white. Those are the only acceptable colors for TMNT bandannas.

Didn't Leo wore a black bandana when he got corrupted by the foot?

On what grounds?

Mirage fanatics pick the dumbest of hills to die on, it's bizarre.

I get it. You're all about the rainbow. ;)

They should wear a tartan.

I just think "They all HAVE to wear red or the entire thing is stupid!" is... stupid.

Because TMNT, on its face, is already stupid. It IS. Pretending it's somehow MORE stupid if they wear one color instead of a different one? Also stupid.

"It's all fine otherwise, but the masks? Those COLORED MASKS are a bridge too far!"

Like for f*ck's sake, it is THE dumbest thing about the franchise to have a bug up one's ass about. The entire "TMNT" thing is a farce and I'm sick and tired of pretending it isn't. It's a stupid franchise full of stupid dumb bullsh*t and frankly, I'm ashamed I ever liked it in the first place. It's SO f*cking dumb.

But to pretend that Colored Masks are the dumbest thing about any of it? Get therapy, guys. You can't be a TMNT fan in the first place and pretend to have standards of taste. That's impossible, because TMNT Is Dumb. You're simply illustrating that you become irrationally upset over very innocuous things.

Who cares what color masks they wear? The entire thing is a f*cking sh*tshow that two drunk, stoned idiots who failed out of every "real job" they ever had thought up when they were high. Stop treating it like one of them wearing blue somehow undermines the "purity" of the entire exercise. There's no "purity" to undermine. It's a farce. All of it. And it was a farce way before anyone swapped colors on the masks.

People act like the Mirage material is "sacred" and way more serious than it was ever intended to be, because the alternative is to accept just how pathetic it is to have spent 40 years obsessed over a property that's so unapologetically vapid. I get it, we as humans have a need to inject deeper meaning into things so we can make them feel "important", and so we in turn can feel better about ourselves. "We're not 'wasting our lives' on childish nonsense, no sir! This stuff is DEEP! It's IMPORTANT!"

Except no, it isn't. It's dumb, it was always dumb, and we're dumb for liking it. It is what it is, trying to trump up how oh-so-serious it really is does nobody any favors. It's denial, that's all. Deep, deep denial.

Watch out, he's gonna link to that random Urban Dictionary entry somebody forced into existence

They still can't even tell me who Crisler is!!!

I must have answered that about 50 times over the years here. You guys can't handle the truth, apparently. :tlol:

And it wasn't just anybody that put that entry up. It was Kevin Laird.

Well you didn't answer it recently and I'm too busy to go digging through 20 years of posts to find out. I've never heard of this "Crisler" guy and I demand to know why he's so important he has his own "law" named after him.

I mean shouldn't I have one by now? I have tenure. Here:

There. Now that's established.

But I still demand that someone tell me who this Crisler guy is. Right Now.

Alex Crisler was one of Erik Larsen's FB buddies. Ages ago and after witnessing it happen in places like this for years before it, one day there was talk about TMNT on Erik's wall and an argument was had. I don't even remember about what, but it always goes the same way. Sure enough, out of the bag it came: "What are we even arguing about? TMNT is just about a bunch of turtles and a rat in a sewer, fer chrissakes!" or something like that. So, no, nothing special about the titular Crisler. Just some guy, but one that tipped the barrel one fateful day.

Years later I tried to find him again to show him the UD thing but I couldn't. Probably he didn't survive one of Erik's very tolerant purgings of any of his fans that don't agree with all of his horrible politics.

This makes me want to re-read those big back and forths with Erik Larsen and Peter David. They were so entertaining but now I wonder who was actually in the right.

Curiosity Satisfied. Thank you.

On the topic of making yet another mutant Turtle, in this case just for the purpose of giving it a green mask, can we just like... Forget about the concept of trying to do that? Entirely that is, regardless of the exact reason but especially for that particular reason.

It's like how Superman was clearly always meant to be the very last Kryptonian yet DC keeps insisting on making characters like Supergirl, the Phantom Zone prisoners, the citizens of Kandor, the Daxamites and Krypto. It kind of makes it feel like the only reason Krypton exploded was to just keep tradition. Likewise, what's the point of there being four mutant turtles from the same accident if there's going to be like four to ten more of the things?

Other types of animals getting mutated isn't exactly elegant but at least it doesn't directly undermine the status of the four mutant turtles. And I can kinda accept Slash, Tokka and the clones from FF because they're more or less just meant to be twisted monster versions of the concept. But if they're just going to copy the concept of the original four, what kind of "Original the Character, DO NOT STEAL!!!" bullshit is that?

The next time an editor is presented with another Kirby, Venus, Jennika or Lita, they damn well better have the balls and sense to take the concept art and literally wipe their ass with it in front of the person who drew it.

I'm all for some **alien** turtle-like creatures but seriously, no more MUTANT turtles... and off the handful of extras we currently have...

If they're wearing green masks they may as well wear no masks.

Oh. I was about to break a similar rant out, so thanks for saving me time, and an excuse to flex my fingers more than they already do.

I still remember overhearing a conversation IRL back in, like, 2006 of two dudes at my LCS talking about how the multi-colored masks were dumb, the 2003 cartoon was dumb, and Mirage TMNT was smart and thought provoking. I wonder if they still felt that way after volume 4 came out, or did they delude themselves into thinking that cockroach April banging wild roaches was 'deep'? :roll:

I mean... it was thought provoking, but more in the 'OMG WTF IS THIS ****' way rather than the 'omg what dark implications were running through April's mind as she felt herself bending to her primal insect urges to mate with fellow insects' and whatever else.

I still say like... WTF Renet, was there really no other way???

Everything about Volume 4 was just a long string of WTF moments. But that's the one that still comes to mind most often.

I'm glad we're finally admitting it's all kind of absurd, though. I've been saying that for a while. I still think a lot of it is good, mind you, and there's no doubt that Mirage is more "serious," but it's mostly a tone thing. It's still just as absurd as the rest of it. It's a widget franchise. And honestly, I'm okay with that. I like weird things.

Because, baby sh*t green is a lame color idea for a bandana. A mutated Turtle would look odd wearing it on their face.

I think there's like... a line that I personally draw in especially Mirage, but really in all media, in that, sometimes the writing isn't good but I still like it. It's entertaining or engrossing, maybe a good *story*, but not like... masterclass in comics writing, or even much higher than amateurclass. I mean, it's obvious Eastman, Laird, et all aren't amateurs, I'm not saying they are, but they're better storytellers and artists than writers, if that makes sense. And Pete and Kev were better together than apart, as they seemed to keep each other's weaknesses in check. The other writers were just as hit-and-miss - a lot of Berger's issues of Tales were skippable and unmemorable, but Cold, Cold Ice and Dark Shadows rank two of my top 20 or so Turtles series altogether, they just hit what I find an engrossing tragic tale. But like... I also didn't like most of Last Ronin, really. Felt too tryhard to be "edgy" and the ending felt rushed and sappy. But then again I do like most of (not all) the IDW story after 100 because seeing the turtles *still* feeling like outsiders in a town of mutants, as well as the populace trying to make amends with their lives being flipped, turned upside down - is more engaging to me than seeing the Turtles go to space again. I find the quiet drama and slice of life stuff in IDW *and* Mirage more appealing than than even the "ninja action" in the comics.

Obviously the takeaway is that not everybody is going to feel the same about everything. People who haven't even though about the TMNT since the 90s complaining that Rise isn't like the 87 cartoon. Rise fans that, no matter what age or how long they just think that the 87 cartoon is just boring retreads of the same generic 80s/90s cartoon plotlines. Mirage fans that think anything that isn't srs bsnss isn't worth *anyone's* time. But seeing 40+ year olds argue about which cartoons and funny books make them a "real fan" is just ludicrous.

But back on track...

Absurdity is baked into the franchise's DNA and has been since day one. Kevin drew the first turtle to make Pete laugh. They purposely chose the dumbest name they could think of for the book. Most of the early books - but especially issue 1 - was just them applying pre-existing comic beats and references to these characters. And on top of all that, I don't think it's inappropriate to point out when things that happen in TMNT is less dumb than the existence of the TMNT themselves. Why would anybody think otherwise? Nothing every makes any ****ing sense in this stories, rule of cool has always been the mantra, again, since day one.

And honestly, I'm kind of bored of bandanas in general, if anything maybe they should be wearing balaclava type things or mufflers (not that actual ninja were known to wear those). Why would a bunch of ninja look closer to The Lone Ranger or Zorro than a covert spy group?

I've made a similar point, or tried to. "Why are they even wearing those masks at all, regardless of color? A savvy opponent could easily blind or even choke them with it, they're a liability." Don't get me wrong, I prefer that they wear masks, and artistically I even prefer it when the masks have long, flowing tails, as nonsense as that would be. But it's just... it's already objectively stupid that they even do wear those masks, so people are gonna choose to whine that they're individually-colored? Because "That's childish"? F*cking madness, bruh. "The first part of the Provably Stupid Bullsh*t Nonsense, I'm fine with, but this OTHER part? Nah man, nah."

I do think the franchise has some serious potential for gravitas in storytelling that has never been fully broached, and I do think a lot of that potential gets squandered because whoever's steering the ship at any given time decides to wallow in Teh Goofy far too often. And I do hate that the brand is just a childrens' property forever, now.

But the colored masks are like, the most innocuous f*cking thing to ever call "bullsh*t" on. Don't start talking about "what a REAL ninja clan would wear!" while the f*cking RAT is wearing a silk kimono and isn't dragging his giant swollen rat-balls on the ground behind him when he walks. Just don't even start. You wanna talk "childish bullsh*t" in TMNT, there's like 1000 pages of stuff you can cite that'll actually have me backing you up the whole way.

Whining about the masks, though? That's just "Hi! My name is ______ and I care WAY too much about things that don't actually matter at all!"

I think at the end of the day, at least most of us can agree that the franchise is incredibly varied, some of it good and some of it absoultely awful, and that being a "purist" for any particular version of something, in almost every case, is limiting, absurd in context, and annoying to everyone else.

It IS smart & thought provoking, at times. Maybe not every issue, maybe not most, but enough to where saying that it is, isn't untrue. There are many issues that treat complicated subject matter, dark feelings, social issues, wanton violence, with poignancy. I'm not ashamed to admit some issues made me misty eyed on my first read. Nobody defines Mirage by Vol. 4, as that was it's "end phase", helmed mainly by one individual, who we now know in hindsight was pretty exhausted on the property anyway.

Bingo.

At times.

But you have to trudge through a lot of crap. I don't even hate volume 4 entirely, it's just not this mature, gritty, profound thing that people want to pretend it is. It's funny because they'll defend April f*cking cockroaches, and her being a drawing, and Don being shrunk and going on a Honey I Shrunk the Kids-type adventure...but then they'll call the cartoons idiotic and childish, as if the plots in those are somehow worse than what was in volume 4.

I guess it's because I'm an alleged moron who doesn't put the Mirage comics on a pedestal. There's great stuff, but let's not pretend everything in those comics are somehow a masterpiece of storytelling. And having all the turtles wear red bandanas doesn't make it superior to everything else, or mean it's MaTuRe.

I'm of the mind that TMNT hasn't had anything 'definitive' or 'perfect' yet either. I think a lot of the comics, shows, and movies have faltered in some way, and the franchise hasn't reached its full potential. The closest things might be the 1990 movie, TMNT Adventures, and maybe some of the 2003 show, even those don't really reach 'it', in my opinion.

I've noticed this as a trend with fervent defenders of the Fred Wolf cartoon over the years, particularly in regard to the bandanna colors and was/is Mirage TMNT created as a parody and so on.

It really does seem to boil down to, "You think your Mirage TMNT isn't as ridiculous as this Fred Wolf TMNT over here? You're wrong, and I'm going to show you how it's exactly as ridiculous!" Which is where the, "It was absolutely a parody! Even though both Kevin and Peter said it wasn't" and "Even having bandannas at ALL is ridiculous, even just red! Rainbow bandannas is the same level of ridiculous" type of stuff starts coming in. I think largely because these people don't want to feel isolated and/or silly for being fans of something ridiculous (or at the very least putting the people in the Mirage side on equal ground), particularly in the here and now?

I don't know, it's pretty dumb. So you like a silly cartoon for small children. You could be guilty of far worse things, so what? Just own it.

I do, and I don't care? :lol: I've been called a pedophile for enjoying cartoons, even the 'acceptable' ones by nerd fandom standards.

For the record, I do think the TMNT cartoons have all had interesting concepts and ideas, and/or even good writing. As I said, I don't think there's been a definitive TMNT that I'd say was entirely satisfying for me. I don't even think the Mirage comics were always the epitome of quality storytelling overall. Like with the cartoons, there's brilliant ideas and great stories told in them, but I can't grade the Mirage series as a whole an A+. (And yes, there's stuff in the Mirage comics that are dumb and childish too, tbh.)

Well of course. There was whole years of guest artists/writers with all manner of goofy nonsense (the Hedden/McWeeney and Mark Martin stuff, Matt Howarth, etc.) smack in the middle of Vol. 1. And yes, you can have your opinions about Vol. 4 with cockroach-doodle April and all that, too. But Mirage TMNT at its best is a far, far stronger thing than any other TMNT thing we've seen anywhere else. And it's not even close.

Which is where these people always seem to creep in. Because you see, they don't like that. If they can tear down Mirage a peg or two off the "not a ridiculous incarnation" pedestal then maybe their affinity for the Fred Wolf cartoon or something awful like Rise of the TMNT doesn't seem so weird then, etc.

They are both ridiculous, but FW is the kids version.

Who knew this thread would spiral out of control for asking how a green bandana would look on a turtle?

For me, It's not about "tearing Mirage down." I love Mirage. At its best, (aka City at War), it's one of the best comics I've ever read. But at the opposite end, it's friggen goofy at best and downright awful at worst.

I've made no secret for my affinity for every part of this franchise. I love the three main comics (except Mutant Town). I love all three of the cartoons. They've all had their ups and downs, and I have my definite preferences, but there's always something about them that I've enjoyed, even if there are flaws or portions that I don't like (Looking at you Mad Max and Mutant Town).

It doesn't even bother me that other people think the various incarnations suck. But people always take it a step further and act like the other versions are inherently bad, and then put Mirage on a pedestal as if it's this perfect, sacred thing completely devoid of any nonsense or absurdity. It's one thing if you don't prefer or like the other comics or cartoons. But to insist that the reason they're bad is because they're not "mature" or "serious" and then use Mirage as your benchmark is just silly. Mirage at it's core and in much of it's execution is just as absurd as the rest of the franchise. So really, it just bugs me when people use that as their reason for disliking the rest, because that's just silly. I don't tear Mirage down. I just point out that it's already at the same reletive level as the rest, even if the '87 show is objectively less mature and sillier. It's a product of being a cartoon made in the 80s, not anything inherent to the brand.

I think we all knew deep down that this was inevitable.

Because Mirage fanatics think mask color is a hill worth dying on, for some bizarre reason. :lol:

I mean, their preferred medium for the Turtles is presented in black and white anyway, so technically it's a non-issue. :trazz:

I was always a strong proponent of Mirage TMNT in good, quality color. They never should have reversed course after Vol. 2. Though it says a lot more about what Mirage was able to do being limited within the constraints of B&W than had it always had the benefit and mainstream appeal of being color from the get-go.

Well if more than ten people ever read Mirage they would've been able to afford color printing. :trazz:

Jokes aside, I'm agnostic on whether Mirage "needs" to be either black and white or color. There's plenty of valid reasons for either, but I kind of think being in black and white kind of delineates it more from the other TMNT books and gives it its own unique identity. Even if that "identity" reeks of, "We Have No Money." It just sort of "feels right", for whatever sense that makes.

Honestly, I thought that by being in color I'd be a lot more invested in Vol. 2, since my eyes generally dislike B&W comics. But the truth is, I was not very engaged regardless. At that point I realized that I wasn't "meh" about Mirage because it was in black and white most of the time, it's because I just plain don't like the way Kevin and Peter write. The pacing employed by Eastman and Laird is just too glacial for an ongoing comic book series, in my opinion. Things take forever to happen and when they do, it's too often with a shrug. Vol. 4 was obviously the worst offender but I find myself having that problem with all of it. The Mirage stuff I ended up liking best - mostly "Tales" stuff - was written by other people, and was a lot more dynamic.

But yeah, based on that I'm kind of neutral about any of it being in color. My eyes say "Yes, it should be in color, have mercy," but it wouldn't change anything from a story standpoint, and it also "wouldn't really feel like Mirage", to me.

I mean, we know already from Archie that Lawson's art isn't any better in color. :lol: I'd argue it actually looked worse, if that were even possible.

Personally, I would agree that Lawson's art looks worse in color. The starkness of black and white helps mitigate the look of his stylization.

In general, I like black and white comics and color comics. I just like comics. My opinion on this is that comics drawn in color should stay in color, and black and white comics should stay black and white. That's why I always hated most of the TMNT color reprints. The art wasn't drawn to handle it, so you lost all of the shading and texture. The only one where the recolor actually looked good was the Image series, and I'm still not sure how they pulled that off so well.

I've always said that 90% of the "gritty" factor comes from the underground-style artwork than actual content.

How the frick does every topic on this forum end up down these same 3 or 4 tangents?