plot holes???
 

I am wondering about some thing. How could Shredder/Saki make the Shredder-mutants from his DNA in Return to NY if he was an Utrom? That doesnt make sense. And how could the Guardian think Leonardo killed Shredder in Return to NY? The guirdian should know the Shredder is an Utrom and that taking of his head wouldn't kill him???

Well, since it was revealed that the Foot Mystics had worked for the original Shredder, and that Ch’rell "inherited" them from the original, it is possible that Shredder had somehow obtained DNA from the original shredder. However, the likelihood of this scenario is not very high and Shredder most likely just created mutations that were not from his own DNA. How hard would it be to slap some armor on some mutants?

And, obviously, the mutants from "Notes from the Underground" were simply experiments that served in the development of the Shredder clones. It is possible that the clones were made from a mixture of Shredder's Utrom DNA and other creatures, but I can't really see what purpose that would serve. The "clones" may have also existed to facilitate Shredder in his facade of being human as many of his underlings like Hun were apparently not aware that he was, in fact, an Utrom. And I can't really remember if the guardians ever explicitly stated that they thought Shredder was destroyed, but perhaps the Utroms may have never told them that Shredder was an Utrom to begin with.

As a fan, it's all just my own speculation in an attempt to cover up the plot holes, so feel free to develop your own theories.

In Return to NY, Part 3, after Leonardo "kills" Shredder, one of the Guirdian says: They've done it, they've defeated the Shredder, incredible!!! He should have known better. Also, in Search for Splinter, it is made clear that the Utrom concil Trio believes Shredder is dead. Now if The Utroms never told The guirdians that shredder was an Utrom, which is very unlikely, they would have known them selves that chopping of his head wouldn't kill him. Major plot hole .

The clones didn't have to be clones of Shredder. They just had his gear on. They could have cloned anyone who works for the foot. Or anyone in general, they just put the gear on them. The guardians might not have known Shredder was an Uthrom, and if they didn't when they told the concil they could have mis-informed them.

Mainly I see it as he said "Defeated" Not "Killed, destoryed, vanquished, finished" Or said "The Shredder has parished" So maybe they just saw him as in a postion where he could cause no more harm to them.

The point of the Shredder clones was to re-live the original comic book story arch Return to NY. Of course in the comics Shredder wasn't an Utrom. I wonder if the writers of the series never considered that this cloning thing might be a problem.

Maybe making him an utrom was a last minute choice, and they didn't want to delete the work they put into having the Shredder clones in the toon. The Shredder clones are supposedly failed attempts at making a perfect Saki clone, right? Or am I wrong about that?

Edit: I just wanted to add, the claw hands Shredder clone is probably still alive. He only fell a few feet, I think on top of Hun. As for the other 2, they were blown up in a falling elevator crash. They probably didn't survive.

Maybe, they though the fact that Shredder had been "decapitated" would put a kink in him maintaining a crime syndicate like the Foot. I mean a man just can't come back from that. I wonder how that was explained to Hun. Did he even know that Shredder was "killed" by Leonardo? Another question is did Saki just claim that Yoshi worked for the utroms or did he know it as fact, considering the season 4 episode "Tale of master Yoshi"?

I really doubt that making Shredder an Utrom was a last minute choice. The writers put far too much thought and effort in the scripts to come up with last minute ideas that would overshadow previous writing. My guess is that they thought we fans wouldnt ask so many questions :)

When did the guardians tell the council how Shredder was defeated, specifically that he was decapitated? They're probably a little more trustworthy and don't demand proof of something. A simple "Yes, I saw it happen" might have done the job.

I don't remember very well, but were the clones actually made from shredder DNA, or is it assumed because they're "clones?" Maybe they just called them that because they were made in a test tube and hiven his armor. I don't recall shredder having claws, four arms, or being that small.

No but we just asume it cause they are called Shredder clones in the episode and in the comics they are made from Saki DNA.

I feel that the Shredder "clones" mainly served to deter Shredder's subordinates, such as Hun, from the suspicion that he was an Utrom. There is no evidence that the guardians were aware of Shredder being an Utrom, and this information was probably not given to them for the same reason it was not given to Hun. For Hun, the Utroms are the enemies. For the guardians, Shredder is the enemy. By keeping this information from those beneath them, both Shredder and the Utroms have simplified things for their subordinates. Neither the guardians nor Hun are forced to decide whose side is right. They never have to decide which side is good and which side is evil as their perspective has been made limited.

Very good point, Utrom. Shredder being a utrom had to be a day one thing, you see in early episodes where he has metalic wrists and can hold the sword of Tengu without the glove, free of pain.

I believe that I've read interviews with Peter Laird in which he actually stated that they had planned on making Shredder an Utrom from the very first episode. He also pointed out that several allusions were made to him being an Utrom even in the earlier episodes as you have pointed out.

I wonder what the armor thing he got out of the water was for a long time. then I watched it again and noticed it as an utrom suit, and that it was proof that the utroms had followed him to new york. I loved how the series made it so deep that early in the first season.

Yeh, looking back on the first season it is obvious that they had decided Shredder was supposed to be an Utrom from the beginning. I just can't understand why they had to make him drink though.

Found the interview with Peter Laird in which he confims that it had been planned to make Shredder an Utrom from the very beginning.

http://www.twelveoclock.net/Forum/showthread.php?t=854

(Question is towards the bottom of the page, under subheading "Interview 5")

Thanx. Very informative.

According to the official site the "Shredder clones" from "Return to New York" were not clones of Saki even in the comics. They were Shredder Elite who allowed themselves to be experimented on in order to resurrect Saki. You can read the synopsis below (from Vol. 1 #20 and Vol. 1 #21 respectively).

"On the final double page spread we get our first look at Shredder's Elite Guard: three monstrously mutated ninja warriors decked out in Shredder's gear!"

"The Shredder explains that, through ancient practices, the Foot were able to take the pieces of his body that were blown to bits in TMNT #1 and bring him back to life by utilizing a type of worm that learns from and grows into what it eats. These worms form a colony of cels that mutate into an individual. The Shredder Elite were the first three experiments with the worms, and on the fourth attempt, the Clan allowed the worms to feed on the Shredder, thus reincarnating him... his lust for vengeance and his hatred for the Turtles stronger than before."

The Guirdians did know that Shredder was an Utrom, for sure. Remember in Secret Origin Part 2, they Turtles are about to return to their time, but they ask Mortu what he was about to say before about Shredder. Mortu says: Shredder is an.... then the Turtles disappear. One of the Guirdians was holding Mortu when he staded Shredder was an Utrom. That's proof enough for me.

Yea but it never showed the gaurdian's reaction to Mortu saying this. He could have been shocked if he never knew this, but we didn't get to see it.

And the Utroms could have been keeping it a secret up until this point.