I guess there's no stopping it...
 

Yep, it looks like we (the US) are going to war with Iraq. I knew this dreaded day would come, and I've felt this way ever since before the 9/11 attacks. In a way, I called this sort of outcome the "second fall of Rome". Look at it this way: the US is the modern-day world power, just as Rome was in its days. It fell because of its own arrogance and lack of respect for other worlds, hence the barbarians were able to attack them without warning. I fear that Iraq represents the barbarians in this case.

Alright, I'll admit that I'm only thinking worst-case scenario when I'm thinkng that we might face a nuclear diaster here, but hey, it can't get any worse than worst-case...

I can't exactly think about what to write right now (I'm watching Wolf Blitzer Reports right now...catch you later, feel free to post your thoughts on this, especially you US people)...

The U.S. needs to do this. It's time for Saddam's regime to go down. Again, let me repeat this....no, this war isn't ONLY about oil. It's only a part of the reason. Iraq needs to be liberated, a government and a madman who gasses their own people need to be taken out. I believe this is a step in the right direction. The President has tried to do this peacefully, and the 'Dipstick Democrats', such as Daschle and Kerry, are whining and crying. Hey, it was these guys that told the President to go to the UN. Hey, it didn't work. Saddam has been given enough time....too much time. This war is expected to last only a few weeks, but will it? We'll have to wait and find out.

I wonder sometimes about people...

There is nothing that needs to be done, only things that should be done. I wonder if you people know what you're talking about.

As of right now, I'd guess not.

dude, you spoke my mind perfectly. right on! I donno whats up with bananaman, but this HAS to be done. for 12 yrs he's been killing people and wreakin havoc in the middle east as well as other places. We've tried diplomacy and It DIDN'T WORK!! he didnt destroy his weapons like we asked.

So please don't give me this "I want peace!" crap!. everyone wants peace! that's why we're doing this!

Re: I guess there's no stopping it...
 

You said we gave Iraq no warning? NO WARNING? :roll:

It isn't about use being a world power. We have a responsibility to be a protector of peace and of peoples. Some one must stands up to the stuborn and arrigant Sadam and free the people that are enslaved under his power... If we don't protect an enslaved culture then who will??

I imagine it will be a replay of the first Gulf War as far as the Iraqi army is concerned: mass defection by the Iraqi troops. I am sure most of the Iraqi military has been forced to fight for Saddam, and will gladly surrender when given the opportunity.

Shadow: Read my post again. I never said anything about us giving Iraq any warnings. I merely made a comparison (fallacious or not), and in fact what I said was that WE might be attacked without warning.

The point in that comparison was that the US, like Rome during its time, is too arrogant for its own good and its citizens are brainwashed into thinking that the US ways are the only right ways. To be blunt, they're not. A lot of these right-winged conservatives I've been talking to at my school lately are always griping about how they are ingrateful to our aid and whatnot. I don't think they're being ingrates; I believe they KNOW that it's not their business to meddle in the affairs of other cultures/countries. That's the main reason why there's so much resentment towards the US; we just don't know when to keep our noses out of others' business.

That being said, I should add that maybe reason why the US is in such economic shambles and national debt right now is NOT because of the WTC attack, NOT because of Democrats/Liberals (it's actually the other side that's to blame), but because we've been sending so much of our money and supplies to other countries that quite frankly have little to no significance in our world and thus leaving less for us to use at home! I say let a country solve its own problems, and if it's not able too, well, that's what it gets for not being on top of things. If a country has to suddenly form a command economy to get back on its feet (figuratively speaking), then so be it. That's what Russia had to do to get out of the poor economic state it was in during the late 19th to early 20th century.

I know all of that sounds selfish, but you have to admit that there are times where you have to put yourself first. Anybody who doubts this, you'll be thinking differently the day our economy collapses to the point of total chaos where people are willing to kill anybody in their path just for a loaf of bread. Again, fall of Rome...

In any case, when this all comes to an end I hope that no weapons of mass destruction are found in Bagdhad (sp) or anywhere in Iraq so that Bush and the rest of the GOP cabinet will look even more like idiots than they already are (anybody on here that's GOP-loyal, don't take that personally). I just want the outcome of this "war" to be a slap in the face to Bush and end up destroying any chance he has of winning the election next year. Good night.

Rez has a good point. All geat empires have fallen at some point. Like rome, And Germany. Sometime it will happen to the US, but that might take hundred of years. I think that the war will be a short one.

PS: I don't need any PMs sent to me on this topic. I'm not saying a name as to who gave it to me, you know who you are. Just so you know, I didn't read it...

as much as I REALLY HATE Posting something like this on a Message board, I totally agree with Rez... I try to avoid posting on topics like this, because it always leads to a flame war.

Anyways, as I said...

I've had many discussions with friends, and even my brother that ended up going the same direction of everything Rez said, We are the new rome. But I do hope this is just a small skirmish that will be over in just a few short weeks or months, and I really hope this dosn't escalate in to a complete world war, which is entirely possible.

I'm just glad my health would prevent me from getting drafted if it ever came to that...

It's wild to imagine we are at war again, but I guess since we (the US) gone through so many other wars without too much damage, I don't really feel worried. Even after the big slap in the face that was 9-11... I still don't feel reason to be worried. Especially since it seems to be staying over there in the Middle East... and that they said most of the civilians have left Baghdad too.

Grunger Kittie... don't worry. Us mods and admins will keep an eye on this thread and like topics to make sure it doesn't get out of hand. If it does, we might have to ban politcal/war topics from here for the time being. (I've sen them do this on other fourms).

In Revilations (don't ask me where, please, I cannot remember) it talks about the fall of the second roman empire; it also speaks of several nations becoming one.

If we are the Second Roman empire, then indeed we will someday fall; if we are not, then we will someday not be the superpower of the world. (If that makes any sense).

As for several nations becoming one, take a look at Europe and how they've all become one: The Eurodollar.

Of course, this all could be mere coincidence and we are years away from seeng anything like what Revilations really speaks of so don't get angry with me.

Horse Techie: That's cool, atleast you guys'll prevent this from getting to out of hand then...

Jade Green: That's similar to what I was thinking, the EU is like the new US, and I know I am no the only one to think that, as Armstrong And Ghetty (local early AM news show) began talking about that aswell... That's the only thing that has me worried is that we very well could be the new Roam.

This is a very difficult subject.

This war is not righeous, to bomb a city of 5 million people is not what I would call righeous at all. The oil of course is the main goal, Bush has friends and stocks in the oil buisness you know.
It took Donald Rumsfeld only 2 hours after 9/11 to start think of turning the murder of those on the planes, in the Pentagon and World Trade Center into a war with Iraq.
Saddam Hussein is a dictator, a brutal one too. But after we have bombed Iraq what will we do? What about Syria? Saudi Arabia? Sudan? The Republic of Congo? Zimbabwe? North Korea?
Should we over run all these places too? They all have cruel dictators, not all armed by the USA in the 1980s like Iraq, but they are dictatorships.
In 2 years President Bush has turned everything around, we are in a deficit, the economy has gone down the tubes, the majority of thee world hates us, the UN's credibility and purpose are fading, we are the aggressors in war, our closest alies hate us.
This war will bring more attacks on the US, in all forms including terrorist attacks, already there is evidence that the number of Al-Qaeda recruits is increasing, a scary thought indeed.
The United States which has pushed for globalization so long just tore down its own system.

If Saddam's forces managed to repell our attack and drive us out of the country, it would be the greatest upset in military history. I don't see that happening.

Let me start out by saying that I apologize if I have trouble making myself clear. This is a difficult thing to talk about, and it is difficult to put what I wish to say into words. This is also the only post I plan to make on this topic, unless it is in reply to a post that directly addresses me. I know that no matter what I say, everyone will hold to thier own opinions and beliefs, and I can't change that, and I don't plan on trying. Now, for my opinion on this whole situation:

************************************************** ***********

I am backing Bush fully, and I think that we're doing the right thing by taking out this madman. Someone has to stop him, and we have the means, and more than enough of a motive (9/11) by which to do it. And don't you dare try to claim that Saddam had nothing to do with the tragedy of 9/11. His regime has trained countless terrorists, including terrorists with ties to Al-Qaeda.

************************************************** ***********

To those of you who are protesting this war, I have this to say to you:

You say that you are against the war for humanitarian reasons. You fear for the lives of our military men and women. People who join the military know going in that there is a chance that we could go to war while they serving thier country, and they know that thier lives could be put at risk to defend our country and our world.

Then you say, 'But innocent Iraquis could be killed!'

So what you're saying is that we should allow this man, this regime, that gases, tortures, starves, and all-around abuses thier own people -- we should allow this to go on? This man who has weapons of mass destruction, who wouldn't hesitate for a moment to hit us with them, and really any other country in the world, including his own -- we're supposed to let him remain in power? You would rather that thousands suffer and die by terroristic acts than to go to war to end this threat and possibly lose a few lives in the process? Better thousands to die by our enemies hand than to for a few to die in the effort to cut that hand off?

Get real. We're doing this to PREVENT the deaths of hundreds, if not thousands -- or even millions, of innocent people. Yes, it's possible, and even likely, that some people will lose thier lives in this process. But to save so many more lives, it is worth it.

It is precisely for humanitarian reasons that we are going to war.



(*Edited for clarification)

I have heard rumors that US might have Weapons of mass destruction too... :roll:

Yes, Saddam is a dictator, but no one can deny, that it is the oil that motivates this war. If and when attack would be neccesary, it should have UN supporting it. If it's not, the war is Illegal. This shows that when one nation grows strong enough, it can do what ever it wants. Sma e happened with Nazi Germany. Wolrd watched Hitler's actions for awhile, but he crossed the line ivading Poland.

Imnot saying that what US is doing can be compared, atleast not yet. But like many have said, right now there is no real justification for this war.

word to Kameko!! Exactly my thoughts!! I'm also backing Bush 100% on this one, and I still don't see why so many people hate him. Since Kameko said most of what I was thinking, I don't really have anything to add.

Nturtle, I disagree that President Bush had anything to do with decline of the economy. The economy began to decline while former President Clinton was in his last year or so in office. He also had a chance to get bin Laden, but he did nothing.

And Kameko, great statement. I understand how difficult it is to say those things, believe me...even I have trouble speaking up.

Well the US is the only country to have ever used nukes in a war, but I doubt that's what will happen with Iraq. And the UN really isn't that important, I can see US actually leaving the UN sometime in the next 10 years. And I think the world woke up to Hitler after the Blitzkrieg steam rolled into France.