How do you feel about Hamato Yoshi never being part of the Foot Clan in this show?
 

This is something I actually never realized or noticed until recently, but Hamato Yoshi was actually never part of the Foot Clan in this show. In virtually all other incarnations Hamato Yoshi is part of the Foot as is Oroku Saki.

In this show Hamato Yoshi goes from being the adoptive son of the Ancient One to becoming a Guardian for the Utroms. So while he was trained in ninjitsu, it was because he was an Utrom Guardian, not a Foot Clan member.

For some reason I never realized this until recently, despite watching, "A Tale of Master Yoshi" at least 5 times in the past. I'm pretty sure Hamato Yoshi is part of the Foot in almost all other incarnations at the start, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Huh, I never realised this either.

I think that's a rather interesting and fitting change to his character, given all the ties the turtles have to the Utroms in this series.

It honestly makes sense that Yoshi wasn't in the Foot Clan in this series. He had too good of an upbringing to join a clan that was associated with having crime or dishonorable code of ethnics (especially since it was founded by Shredder). Mashimi was raised the same way too, but the Ancient One kind of knew since they met he'd be a bad seed.

I kinda like how Hamato Yoshi was a guardian. I think it would've been cool had Oroku Saki been in the role that Mitsubishi (or whatever his name was) had. You know the other guy who was like a brother to Yoshi who got jealous and then joined the Foot. Of course that would've involved Saki being a human rather than an utrom.

But Saki was a human. We saw him in the lost season.

I'm fine with it, as the Foot Clan is completely different then previous iterations, although Nick Splinter isn't a Foot member either.

That's not the same Saki that founded the Foot Clan though.

It doesn't particularly bother me.

Oh that's funny, because I had never noticed either :lol:. That being said, it does not bother me. Shredder being a Utrom was a lot harder for me to accept.

It is kinda funny how many of us never noticed this, even though we all watched this episode years ago.

Good shout, it never even occurred to me either. It's something which is easy to overlook in passing, I guess.

It makes more sense for the episode and for the overall mythos of the show (what with Ch'rell being the arch-enemy of the utroms and therefore going to great lengths to track down and kill Yoshi in New York). That's what is so good about this show - it's not afraid to slightly twist some of the source material to make it a better fit for the show.

He's not Foot Clan in the Nickelodeon cartoon either.

Anyway, the show reimagined the Foot Clan as the former servants of the Demon Shredder reunited by the Utrom Shredder to hunt down the Utroms. If they were still potrayed as some band of warriors for hire like in the comics he might have been part of the Foot but he if was part of a clan that was reimagined entirely as villainous from the start, that would have been weird for him to be a good guy.

When was it ever stated that Ch'rell's Foot Clan was former servants of the Demon Shredder? The only ones who I remember having served both Ch'rell and the human Saki where the Foot Mystics. And they didn't serve Ch'rell by choice, he only forced them into serving him with he heart of tengu (or whever it was called).

Come to think of it, you're right. I think they only say he impersonated the demon to gain respect.

Yeah, we don't know which Shredder started the Foot Clan. Its *probably* the original Shredder though, since the Foot Clan appeared too quickly under Ch'rell's command to have just started. It seemed like they were around for awhile.

In Secret Origins, wasn't it implied that a long time had passed between between the utrom ship crashing and Ch'rell becoming Shredder and forging his alliance with the Foot Clan? If it had been decades or centuries then it becomes more likely that Ch'rell formed the Foot Clan.

One thing about that arc though - I'm pretty sure it is implied that much time passes between the yellow utrom testing the first exoskeletons (this is because the utroms seem to make large advances in technology and create masses of exoskeletons whilst on Earth). However, a plot-hole here seems to be that the yellow utrom still had a bandage on his head after being whacked out of the exoskeleton by Ch'rell. Surely if so much time had passed between that initial testing and the development of technology (as the episode implies at the start of the new scene), the yellow utrom wouldn't still have the bandage? I mean how long would that injury take to heal?! Especially considering that these guys seem to live forever. That bandage would surely imply that very little time had actually passed, in contrast to what is said. I'm putting this down to a simple error - the yellow utrom shouldn't have had the bandage on.

Good point, we don't know how long it took from Ch'rell stealing that Utrom exoskeleton to becoming Shredder. I think it might have only been a few months tops though, since the Utroms themselves didn't really move from where they crash landed.

I do find it funny that Ch'rell was somehow able to design human skin for Oroku Saki. I mean how did he know what he looked like? Who made the human skin to cover up the exoskeleton?

oYeah, that was what I was wondering. I mean everything points to it being short-term - the utroms being at the same site (as you say), their technological skill meaning they could develop many exoskeletons quickly, as well as the yellow utrom wearing the bandage. But at that scene the voiceover says (I can't remember who says it, think it was Donatello) "time passes, a lot of time" in a very overwhelmed voice, which seems to be at odds with the timespan being only a few months or a year. I mean in this show and utrom history 'a lot of time' would imply decades or centuries. As you say it all seems to imply only a few months, but the allusion to lots of time would indicate it has been at least decades. Very strange.

That crossed my mind too. I mean he must have learned about Saki and what happened. The utrom ship crashed in what, the year 1000 AD (they had been there a millennia approximately)? That's about 700 years after the rise of the original vessel tengu and the 'proper human lives' of the Ninja Tribunal and Saki. With the ship crashing in Japan you'd imagine Ch'rell learned all of this and either recruited Tengu Shredder's Foot Clan (with them possibly believing him to be the original Saki) or he created the Foot Clan himself. Perhaps he saw portraits of Saki and that's how he knew of his appearance.

As for who created his skin? That's another plothole. Other than the utroms there was nobody advanced enough to create the human skin, I would imagine. Ch'rell himself would be the only one so perhaps he gave instructions to others, who knows. But that would mean exposing his true form to humans. Based on that, perhaps the Foot Clan at that time knew he was an utrom and they did it under his instructions. It makes sense that they'd know of his true form as they helped him battle the utroms after all. They'd be silly to think a human would be so obsessed with a recently stranded alien race.

Wait, do we even know if Ch'rell was using human skin at that point? We don't see him as Saki in Secret Origins. Perhaps he simply upgraded the original exoskeleton to the Shredder version and wore it all the time. Perhaps it was much later that he created the Saki skin, as a natural extension of him trading on the tengu Shredder's reputation. After all he would only really need a human disguise when the Foot Clan became more organised and advanced and worked its way into crime and business, etc.

Would the Foot serve Shredder knowing he was an alien brain though? Its pretty obvious in the modern Foot Clan, nobody outside of Karai knew he was an Utrom. Even Hun didn't know. The fact that Shredder kept his Utrom origin secret from the entire Foot Clan other than Karai says a lot.

So in ancient Japan, why would a group of human ninja's work for an alien brain? I think Ch'rell took on the Oroku Saki identity pretty quickly, and with the knowledge that Oroku Saki was a demon, the Foot probably figured he was immortal so they didn't question why he didn't age.

He had to take on the Oroku Saki persona in addition to Shredder, because then *anyone* could have worn similar armor to Shredder and said he was Saki. How would he get respect otherwise? They would have to see his human face.

Yeah, you're probably right. After all, I'd expect Foot Clan members would have been familial in some cases - passing through generations. If ancient members of the Foot Clan knew he was an alien that would have been transmitted through the centuries and the secret wouldn't have held by the noughties.

And yeah, you're right they probably wouldn't have worked for an alien. You're probably right that he pretended to be the tengu from the start, and that will have been a decent cover story for why human clan members were fighting aliens who crash landed on Earth - if they thought he was the tengu then it's more realistic that he'd have a problem with the aliens than a human would.

That's a great point actually, and something I so easily overlooked :lol: If we now assume the ancient clan members think he's a tengu, then they'd have to have seen him as Saki. So you're right - he must have been seen in the human skin at that early point. But as you say who made it for him? Whoever done it would have known he wasn't the tengu Shredder. Perhaps he taught them how to create a human skin and then killed them.

Another theory is that perhaps his creation of the Sword of Tengu was enough to prove to his clan members that he was Saki, rather than the skin, as it's something seemingly demonic and supernatural. But then he doesn't create the sword until the past events of "Secret Origins" - at which point the Foot Clan are fully in his service.

It's hard to say, really.

For whatever it's worth, and I'm not trying to claim anything, it's just something that I'm throwing out there, the Feudal Shredder toy featured Oroku Saki's human face under the helmet. Now, I wouln't necessarily use that to base any conclusion on, it is something worth pointing out.