Why no true retro TMNT art on "retro" TMNT merch?

**Jester** · 11-23-2012, 06:34 PM

My wife and I were discussing the "Who owns what aspects of the Turtles" thing due to discussions about Hun in other threads, and it brought up some interesting questions: Who owns the rights to the vintage artwork? Does Fred Wolf own those in relation to their ownership of the OT? Would its use have to pay residuals to Ryan Brown and the others at Mirage who drew the original vintage art?

All and all, why the heck do we get this:

and not this:

*Roseangelo* · 11-23-2012, 06:58 PM

Ugh, don't speculate crap that people are going to misinterpret for fact.

I don't know why they do this, but it has nothing to do with not owning the art. And this has been going on since the last year or two of Mirage ownership; Nickelodeon simply continued their poor practices.

*MikeandRaph87* · 11-23-2012, 07:19 PM

Ever since the first DVD release of TMNT(1987) in April 2004 its been the same old generic images hardly ever changed up or new images of the '87 cartoon style. The DVDs for the most part had very limited variants in poses and for the most part with the retro products through Hot Topic.

As for who owns what,to quote Dan Berger the day after the sale back October 20th,2009,"If you have not heard the big news yet,Nickelodeon thorugh Viacom own the intellectual property lock,stock,and barrel". I took that to mean everything except DVD rights of the '87 cartoon consdering sister company CBS still own the syndication right of the '87 cartoon. Only thing they do not own would be rights to rereleases of the four films.That being said it all comes down to laziness and not willing to spend money to produce better quality images. Take the '87 Michelangelo head easter egg in "Never Say Xever" for example. It was the same generic image that was posted on several retro products since circa '08/'09. I bet they do its just as I said above cheap and lazy to make better quality retro images. Atleast we get the images so I can't complain TOO MUCH.

*CyberCubed* · 11-23-2012, 07:29 PM

The fact that Lionsgate could not even use the old stock art on their DVDs says enough.

I'm sure Lionsgate would have easily copy/pasted old art on DVDs rather than paying a new artist for new artwork if they would have.

**Jester** · 11-23-2012, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

Ugh, don't speculate crap that people are going to misinterpret for fact.

I really hope people don't take that much stock in what I say.

It's just an open question. But you do have a point about the fact that it's nothing new to Nick's acquisition of the Turtles. Maybe I should ask Peter why they decided to use the modified art at the tail end of Mirage's own ownership of the franchise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The fact that Lionsgate could not even use the old stock art on their DVDs says enough.

I'm sure Lionsgate would have easily copy/pasted old art on DVDs rather than paying a new artist for new artwork if they would have.

That dawned on me to. I thought that it seemed odd that Lionsgate would make new "retro" art using stock 4Kids and TMNT art drawn to look similar to the 80's Turtles. Heck...they didn't even do anything to make Splinter look like his FW counterpart.

*MikeandRaph87* · 11-23-2012, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

I really hope people don't take that much stock in what I say.

It's just an open question. But you do have a point about the fact that it's nothing new to Nick's acquisition of the Turtles. Maybe I should ask Peter why they decided to use the modified art at the tail end of Mirage's own ownership of the franchise.

Good idea. Be sure to post his reply off blogspot in this thread. This is the kind of question I would post to Dan The Man Berger every so often so if Peter fails to reply,which I bet he will Dan can be a backup and if he does not know he will find a "best answer".

Going back to Lionsgate, they did do original concept art for season 10 with the turtles surrounding the mainhole so there is a couple of the releases that were not just gneeric images of old.

**Jester** · 11-23-2012, 08:06 PM

I'm not sure how to ask....

And then again, looking at some of the "retro" stuff there are some pieces that use more true to the original retro art. Like this pencil bag tOkKa posted:

Seems weird that there are very vintage Raph and Leo with the retro-styled Don and Mikey.

*Powder* · 11-23-2012, 09:09 PM

The answer to your question 'why do we get this and not this?' is simple- cost efficiency. In screen printing, the more colors you use, the more expensive it is to make, and subsequently sell. Using the basic design, which lacks shading, keeps products relatively cheap for both creator & consumer.

**Jester** · 11-23-2012, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Powder

The answer to your question 'why do we get this and not this?' is simple- cost efficiency. In screen printing, the more colors you use, the more expensive it is to make, and subsequently sell. Using the basic design, which lacks shading, keeps products relatively cheap for both creator & consumer.

I wish I could find a simpler sketch. I'm referring to the obvious changes to the heads and belts...not the shading differences. Here:

Then again, I guess the real question is why did they modify just that one picture? The Leo and Raph above look almost untouched. And I've seen other things that look to have art that is the original and not changed.

*Roseangelo* · 11-23-2012, 10:06 PM

It probably comes down to what art they have available in hi-res digital format. Mirage was never good at maintaining archives. Although the head swapping still baffles me.

*Ninjinister* · 11-24-2012, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

Ugh, don't speculate crap that people are going to misinterpret for fact.

If that were the case, nobody'd ever speculate anything ever again.

The man shouldn't have to censor his thoughts because others are idiots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

http://www.voxboxcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-cowabunga.jpg

Is that... based on the Arcade Game cover? o.O

**Jester** · 11-25-2012, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prefight Doughnuts

Is that... based on the Arcade Game cover? o.O

Believe so.

*Coola Yagami* · 11-25-2012, 11:53 PM

I actually saw that skateboard image on a sticker in one of those gumball machines a good couple of months before TMNT II The Arcade Game was released.

jestermon · 11-26-2012, 02:33 AM

I thought something had been talked about how most of the art from back then just never was digitized so they reuse alot of the same images instead of creating new ones.

AnarkyLantern · 11-29-2012, 09:39 AM

It might be a style guide issue as well: http://www.actionfigureinsider.com/o...ontrol/:tgrin:

11-23-2012, 06:34 PM	#1
Jester Rat-faced Dude-guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 26,300	Why no true retro TMNT art on "retro" TMNT merch? My wife and I were discussing the "Who owns what aspects of the Turtles" thing due to discussions about Hun in other threads, and it brought up some interesting questions: Who owns the rights to the vintage artwork? Does Fred Wolf own those in relation to their ownership of the OT? Would its use have to pay residuals to Ryan Brown and the others at Mirage who drew the original vintage art? All and all, why the heck do we get this: and not this: __________________ "Clearly, you're Ninja Turtling incorrectly." - Leo656 Last edited by Jester; 11-23-2012 at 07:27 PM.

11-23-2012, 06:58 PM	#2
Roseangelo Emperor Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: California Posts: 9,119	Ugh, don't speculate crap that people are going to misinterpret for fact. I don't know why they do this, but it has nothing to do with not owning the art. And this has been going on since the last year or two of Mirage ownership; Nickelodeon simply continued their poor practices. __________________ www.ninjapizza.net www.colorsbyrosemary.com

11-23-2012, 07:19 PM	#3
MikeandRaph87 Jedi Master Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: JLA Satellite Headquarters Posts: 11,189	Ever since the first DVD release of TMNT(1987) in April 2004 its been the same old generic images hardly ever changed up or new images of the '87 cartoon style. The DVDs for the most part had very limited variants in poses and for the most part with the retro products through Hot Topic. As for who owns what,to quote Dan Berger the day after the sale back October 20th,2009,"If you have not heard the big news yet,Nickelodeon thorugh Viacom own the intellectual property lock,stock,and barrel". I took that to mean everything except DVD rights of the '87 cartoon consdering sister company CBS still own the syndication right of the '87 cartoon. Only thing they do not own would be rights to rereleases of the four films.That being said it all comes down to laziness and not willing to spend money to produce better quality images. Take the '87 Michelangelo head easter egg in "Never Say Xever" for example. It was the same generic image that was posted on several retro products since circa '08/'09. I bet they do its just as I said above cheap and lazy to make better quality retro images. Atleast we get the images so I can't complain TOO MUCH. __________________ Michelangelo: This looks like a job for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles! Raphael: Sheesh, Mikey this ain't a cartoon!

11-23-2012, 08:06 PM	#7
Jester Rat-faced Dude-guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 26,300	I'm not sure how to ask.... And then again, looking at some of the "retro" stuff there are some pieces that use more true to the original retro art. Like this pencil bag tOkKa posted: Seems weird that there are very vintage Raph and Leo with the retro-styled Don and Mikey. __________________ "Clearly, you're Ninja Turtling incorrectly." - Leo656

11-23-2012, 10:06 PM	#10
Roseangelo Emperor Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: California Posts: 9,119	It probably comes down to what art they have available in hi-res digital format. Mirage was never good at maintaining archives. Although the head swapping still baffles me. __________________ www.ninjapizza.net www.colorsbyrosemary.com

11-23-2012, 07:29 PM	#4
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43,872	The fact that Lionsgate could not even use the old stock art on their DVDs says enough. I'm sure Lionsgate would have easily copy/pasted old art on DVDs rather than paying a new artist for new artwork if they would have.

11-23-2012, 09:09 PM	#8
Powder 40 Years of TMNT Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Shell-Ri-La Posts: 26,955	The answer to your question 'why do we get this and not this?' is simple- cost efficiency. In screen printing, the more colors you use, the more expensive it is to make, and subsequently sell. Using the basic design, which lacks shading, keeps products relatively cheap for both creator & consumer.

11-25-2012, 11:53 PM	#13
Coola Yagami Overlord Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 15,709	I actually saw that skateboard image on a sticker in one of those gumball machines a good couple of months before TMNT II The Arcade Game was released. __________________ "I was down with TMNT once, but then they changed what TMNT was. Now what I was down with is no longer TMNT and what TMNT now is seems weird and scary. And it'll happen to YOU." Check out my blog for Comic Reviews and other things. https://markepicblogofrandomness.blogspot.com/ I also started The AEW Crew, the All Elite Wrestling Fan Club! https://www.facebook.com/groups/637508120044168/

11-26-2012, 02:33 AM	#14
jestermon Hench Mutant Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 486	I thought something had been talked about how most of the art from back then just never was digitized so they reuse alot of the same images instead of creating new ones.

11-29-2012, 09:39 AM	#15
AnarkyLantern Foot Soldier Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 154	It might be a style guide issue as well: http://www.actionfigureinsider.com/o...ontrol/:tgrin: