Donatello as Leader

[Raphaeline]

I don't see Donnie as a leader, he's too shy, and doesn't have enough temper to lead the others. Raph wouldn't follow!


I think that we should give Raph a second chance, if there was a more mature version of the turtles. Maybe he can learn to listen to the other's advice, and control himself better. I'm sure he could make a good leader, if he had more experience and more selfcontrol.

[Cure]

Originally Posted by Powder

I wouldn't mind if they were to make him into a geek of sorts. Like, a traditional otaku in some sense. The one obsessed with Japanese arts & philosophy (not so much anime & the like). Maybe he reads manga, does calligraphy/painting, watches samurai flicks, etc. Gives him something to nerd out over and aspire to.

I guess, but that's not really a classic archetype. What makes the turtles so great is that most people can relate with either the brains, brawn, funny one, or leader. I'm not sure how people will say "I'M THE (traditional) OTAKU".

[FlogginMcMurryZombiePizza]

Re watching the first disc, Don does show leadership traits.
On the same note, he did pull a Raph and rush in (to save April who he just spotted from rooftop).

The other thing to consider is that, personality-wise, the Turtle have always been about the same. Leo has always been the most obvious leader, Mikey the least likely, and Don and Raph are always more or less on the fence.

But in the IDW series, Leo has gone "dark" and there will be a new leader there. I been avoiding the forums for now because I'm still behind in my reading but that'll be interesting since the story is a little darker and the Turtles arn't as.... "playful" as they are in the Nick show.

Originally Posted by Raphaeline

I think that we should give Raph a second chance, if there was a more mature version of the turtles. Maybe he can learn to listen to the other's advice, and control himself better. I'm sure he could make a good leader, if he had more experience and more selfcontrol.

And that's another point. Leo is mature enough at, what? 15? to lead the group (and that's saying something because he has shown immaturity a few times). Maybe Raph would be a good leader when he's older but he's not ready.
But traditionally Raph has never been the one to maintain control. He's always the hot headed one, even if he does calm down for an episode (or the end of the 2007 movie), he will still fall into his old ways. This is much like how real people behave because of lack of discipline or self control.
Just like making a New years Resolution. How often do people keep up to the end?

[Powder]

Originally Posted by Cure

I guess, but that's not really a classic archetype. What makes the turtles so great is that most people can relate with either the brains, brawn, funny one, or leader. I'm not sure how people will say "I'M THE (traditional) OTAKU".

Well I wasn't thinking about it with broad appeal in mind, just a way to make Leo different but still somewhat Leo. I guess to simplify things, it'd be like Donnie is the nerd & Leo is the geek.

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by Powder

Well I wasn't thinking about it with broad appeal in mind, just a way to make Leo different but still somewhat Leo. I guess to simplify things, it'd be like Donnie is the nerd & Leo is the geek.

I still don't like the idea...Donnie being the nerd is enough for him because he can make anything and that helps the turtle out enough

Leo is mature, calm, a good strategist, and self sacrificing
that makes a good leader and that makes most of Leo's character.
in other words...Leo was made to be leader....

Donnie is smart, but he isn't a quick thinker like Leo is...in fact Donnie has panicked in a pickle a few times XD

like in Operation Breakout, he busted Mr.O'Neil out of prison....then got them locked in another cell XD....(but it happens lol)

and he also becomes a talking wiki page when he panics...XD

:3 he could be a good second in command...but not the leader

[Powder]

Again, I never said Leonardo needed to be changed. It was a what-if.

[Raphaeline]

Originally Posted by FlogginMcMurryZombiePizza

But traditionally Raph has never been the one to maintain control. He's always the hot headed one, even if he does calm down for an episode (or the end of the 2007 movie), he will still fall into his old ways. This is much like how real people behave because of lack of discipline or self control.
Just like making a New years Resolution. How often do people keep up to the end?

I think it's unfair to think that he will always be immature. For now we could only see him at 15 years old, in all the series. I know some guys who were really different and immature as teenagers, but are now calm and mature.

Of course Raph will always have his hot temper, but he can learn to control it, with experience, this time. He won't act like a teenager forever.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by BubblyShell22

Hey, Dave, I get where you're coming from with the death of a Turtle, but I'd like to see it in an alternate universe type of thing if they were to do it in the Nick series. Maybe be where the Turtle really isn't dead but they see what could come of it if one of them or Splinter dies.

Hi Shell, nice to meet you finally.

Yep, I agree it would be better dealt with in an alternative universe - I only brought it up in this thread as the idea of Splinter dying was raised. I wouldn't like to see one of the turtles die in Nick as it's too light-hearted a show (and it will never happen anyway). But in an alternative universe it would most certainly be intriguing to see.

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by Cure

It's not so much that Donnie can't be leader; it's just if he was, Leo would literally bring nothing to the dynamic.

Donnie-Brains AND leader
Mikey-Funny one
Raph-Tough one
Leo-Space Heroes fan

And no, Donnie crushing on April is already too much.

Originally Posted by Powder

I wouldn't mind if they were to make him into a geek of sorts. Like, a traditional otaku in some sense. The one obsessed with Japanese arts & philosophy (not so much anime & the like). Maybe he reads manga, does calligraphy/painting, watches samurai flicks, etc. Gives him something to nerd out over and aspire to.

Those are good points to bring up, it brings a "what if?" situation like you proposed earlier Powder. How would... and even could... Leo define himself if he wasn't the leader (at least for an episode )? It seems like Leonardo is an adventure geek. In the OT, there are hints of it in him reading adventure books (i.e. "The Four Musketurtles" and "Leonardo is Missing") and in Nick, with Leo's interest in Space Heroes.

I think for the viewers it would be completely awkward to see Leonardo not doing the whole leadership bit, but it would provide a significant amount of depth to his character since we, as fans, have been so conditioned to him always being it. This new situation would bring up a self-identity crisis for Leo, if somehow the plot of the episode stripped him away of his leadership duties and forced him to not use ninjitsu. We could finally discover his personality/interests fully, outside of ninjitsu and leadership, see how he is behind the noble exterior which at times seems a bit heavy for him to carry all the time, and possibly what fascinates him with "bad girls" (i.e. Karai). Plus it would be some remarkable storytelling if the Nick writers could pull it off convincingly.

[Shark_Blade]

If anything, Leo is the Awkward One (in a sadorable way).

They said we won't see Space Heroes anymore starting Season 2 onwards. So maybe we'll see another side of Leo. Maybe he'll take up knitting or pottery or something. Yes I'm joking, close your open jaws.

[BubblyShell22]

I know, and honestly, I'm sad about that because liking "Space Heroes" was what set Leo apart from other incarnations in that he had another trait. However, I just thought that maybe he could still read the comics since he does have them and could quote those, so "Space Heroes" wouldn't totally be gone from the show as well as Leo's liking for it. I just don't want him to turn into a bland character now that his favorite show isn't on anymore, but I don't think that will happen as I have faith in the Nick writers.

[Bauer536]

Originally Posted by Cure

It's not so much that Donnie can't be leader; it's just if he was, Leo would literally bring nothing to the dynamic.

Donnie-Brains AND leader
Mikey-Funny one
Raph-Tough one
Leo-Space Heroes fan

And no, Donnie crushing on April is already too much.

If Leonardo wasn't the leader, I think he'd still bring something to the dynamic. He is a Space Heroes fan. But do you know what else he is? A pretty darn cool ninja. Even if he didn't have to lead, he would be resourceful in his katana skills against the enemy. In fact, it's possible that he could be second in command and become leader if Donnie is incapacitated. You can't just say that someone has nothing if they are not leader or brains or whatever. Everyone has a skill.

[The Stryker]

Originally Posted by Bauer536

If Leonardo wasn't the leader, I think he'd still bring something to the dynamic. He is a Space Heroes fan. But do you know what else he is? A pretty darn cool ninja. Even if he didn't have to lead, he would be resourceful in his katana skills against the enemy. In fact, it's possible that he could be second in command and become leader if Donnie is incapacitated. You can't just say that someone has nothing if they are not leader or brains or whatever. Everyone has a skill.

Know who else is a pretty cool ninja? Raphael, Michelangelo and Donatello.

Him being good at fighting isn't a unique skill when they all do it.

[Bauer536]

Originally Posted by The Stryker

Know who else is a pretty cool ninja? Raphael, Michelangelo and Donatello.

Him being good at fighting isn't a unique skill when they all do it.

Alright. You have a point, but just assuming someone is useless just because they may not have a certain position is silly.

[The Stryker]

Originally Posted by Bauer536

Alright. You have a point, but just assuming someone is useless just because they may not have a certain position is silly.

He was saying he'd be useless from a character perspective. His gimmick is that he's the leader. Take that away and there's not much to write a story on.

[Bauer536]

Originally Posted by The Stryker

He was saying he'd be useless from a character perspective. His gimmick is that he's the leader. Take that away and there's not much to write a story on.

That's your opinion. But even if I were to write a story of him not as a leader, I would still have some ideas. Heck, if it was possible, maybe he could still use his skills for something extraordinary. Or, what if he can solve mysteries like a detective and be responsible for cracking down criminals that Donatello (if he was the leader) couldn't find. Honestly, stop thinking that someone is nothing just because their dynamic isn't interesting, or that they will not be interesting if they don't have that one dynamic.

Besides, enough of this. Just be happy they all have a role. You don't see me complaining about Mikey being only a jokester and not anything to help the team seriously. Don can lead, and he needs practice to get better. Any of them can lead. They need time. But just accept the fact that Leo was written to be leader for a reason. You don't appreciate it, I'm sorry. But, my god. I'm so tired of all these alternate universe or "What If" talks. Just enjoy the characters for who they are. You guys are never happy.

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by Bauer536

Besides, enough of this. Just be happy they all have a role. You don't see me complaining about Mikey being only a jokester and not anything to help the team seriously. Don can lead, and he needs practice to get better. Any of them can lead. They need time. But just accept the fact that Leo was written to be leader for a reason. You don't appreciate it, I'm sorry. But, my god. I'm so tired of all these alternate universe or "What If" talks. Just enjoy the characters for who they are. You guys are never happy.

Well these "What if" discussions are not far-fetched, there are many people who are forced to abandon their passions and find another way to utilize their time, and discover and develop other interests. Many prominent examples are when high-achieving professional athletes are forced to leave the game they love by a career-ending injury, or people who are forced to go into disability retirement after an injury or toxic exposure from some tragic incident in the workplace.

Now nobody's suggesting that Leo becomes a permanent "secondary" leader, but you have to admit that it would be intriguing if the show explored Leo's personality/interests behind his high achieving and responsible character, and probably one of the most effective ways of doing so, would be if the show temporarily removed his leadership position and ninjitsu training.

[BubblyShell22]

I agree with JYX here. It's not that we're not happy with Leo as the leader, we're just saying that if positions were reversed we would wonder how it would go. I agree Leo is a good leader and was given that position, but it would be nice to explore what other qualities he has besides just being the leader. Or put him in a situation where he's not able to be leader and someone has to take over such as if he has an injury. That's all we're getting at here. We saw how Raph would handle it, and it didn't go well at all, but I'd like to see either Don or Mikey handle it just once to see if they could.

At the end of the day, Leo will always be leader. It's just nice to speculate what would happen if someone else had the role. Please try to calm down, Bauer.

[JTH]

At the beginning of the season, I would've said no. But from Pulverizer Returns on, Donatello's ability to be "able" to lead have shown.

I believe this incarnation of Donatello is most believable in ability to lead because while he does show his feelings around April, he has shown an edginess and determination to achieve that his other versions haven't.

[victory_angel]

Rob Paulsen has stated in an interview sometime ago that Donnie will have a co-leader role.
So far that hasn't come to pass as of yet, but that can still change.

Ciro has mentioned that they would have a moment where they followed the events of that point of the mirage comic book where Leo gets the ever loving snot beaten out of him by the foot.

My guess is that would lead to a moment where Leo may have a time where he has to step away from being a leader. And Donnie maybe takes over a leader of the team until Leo gets his head straight.